Timberwolves @ Suns Friday Playoff game thread 4-26-2024 - Game 3

[Suns_fan69]

The one thing we can do that can significantly alter this team's landscape (trading our big 3 isn't one of them) is bring in a different coach. Sure, Ish will eat the salary, but we need someone that isn't just another Monty/D'Antoni clone.

Probably a better discussion for next week, but wonder who'd be a good fit with this squad. Budenholzer? Not sure Phoenix would want to roll the dice with someone new like JJ Redick.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Curious to see what they do now. And if they did come back and win this series even in a dominate fashion like win 4 straight, how many of you that have given up already would still be hating on them. Arizona generally has some of the most bandwagon fans ever as soon as a little adversity come their way they bail. So if we actually play well and blow them out game 3 anyone gonna feel better? Or you still given up the season?

I don’t expect it. But this season has been that kind of rollercoaster. They’ll suck me in again enough that I’ll show up for the next disaster. But I’ll for sure be expecting another disaster.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

lol I’m a Suns fan, and I just don’t think this Minn team is that great we are just playing like trash right now. Which is a little odd considering we finished the season playing stronger teams playing well. I feel like Vogel has just used and abused the starters all season and frankly they are a little spent and don’t believe in their BS coach and lack of system! So when things go a little off the rails they just giving up it sucks to watch. I just get tired of the negativity we all fans and want them to do well I think talking about ripping the team apart before a series is even over is premature quitter BS. If we get smoked at least hopefully we rid ourselves of Vogel and JJ and see what some new blood can do to reshape this team. But Booker imo goes no where he is still the young star of the team just needs to play SG and not be forced to be someone else, that alone was the biggest blunder of the season!

Not so young anymore.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm certainly not giving up on the Suns in this series. But even if we should beat the odds and advance, we're just too soft, physically and probably mentally, to be a real player.

I hated the KD trade when it happened, believed then and now that it was about the worst thing we could have done. But I'm not as down on our organization right now as many here are. I'm hoping that this will be the impetus that drives philisophical changes in the front office.

It will take several years to completely fix this mess but at least with Ishbia involved, there's a chance they'll actually read the writing on the wall and build a team the right way. Build back bigger, stronger, tougher - and don't try to fix all your mistakes with one blockbuster deal.

Yeah this could be the kick in the pants ishbia needs to learn kinda like Cuban back in the day. But it’ll be a lotta digging out to get back.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It won't because we have no picks.

The hard truth is basically no matter what this team is likely to suck for the next 5 years minimum.

Good lord can we stop this? We have picks every other year even if they’re swaps. And for the most part they’re swaps with teams worse than us so there likely won’t even be a swap.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Suns need to follow the Miami model in scouting UDFAs and finding hidden gems.

It's no cure, but the Suns have to be better than other teams in finding obscure players worldwide.

Yup. They really haven’t uncovered ANY hidden gems in years. That stinks considering we used to be great at it under colangelo.

 

[Yuma]

Sorry, you're right, I'd like to see both GM and coaching staff replaced.

JJ does what the owners want him to do. I think he will make it another year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah but seeds are impacted by injury schedule etc. Unless you are talking about the 1st seed verses the last seed you are talking inches not miles. It doesn't change the fact that this team had title expectations. Period.

They were an inch from the top seed and we were an inch from play-in. So seeds kinda weren’t inches here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Vegas isn’t setting odds on what will happen they’re setting odds against the idiot betting public, the suns record against the spread this year is putrid. Vegas has made a killing on people who don’t realize that the Suns are soulless and gutless.

So, tell me… how does the viewing public set the standard for favorites in sporting events?

We were favorites in the series… by Vegas, by pretty much half of the sports writers across major organizations and by pretty much everyone here. I thought that was pretty nuts and put my money against the notion.

And so far, I’ve been proven right annd we’ve gotten our pants pulled down and spanked in humiliating fashion so far from a franchise that hasn’t won a playoff series in two decades.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Probably a better discussion for next week, but wonder who'd be a good fit with this squad. Budenholzer? Not sure Phoenix would want to roll the dice with someone new like JJ Redick.

I kinda don’t think they have a choice. Retreads ain’t fixing this. Gotta hope they can identify the next young riley or Phil.

 

[Yuma]

So, tell me… how does the viewing public set the standard for favorites in sporting events?

We were favorites in the series… by Vegas, by pretty much half of the sports writers across major organizations and by pretty much everyone here. I thought that was pretty nuts and put my money against the notion.

And so far, I’ve been proven right annd we’ve gotten our pants pulled down and spanked in humiliating fashion so far from a franchise that hasn’t won a playoff series in two decades.

When I lived in Nevada, I was told the Casinos want the money on both sides to equal out, and they make their money on the fees for placing the bets. So if a LOT of money comes in for Minny, then they make the odds more favorable for PHX so that the money evens out. Last thing they want is an overly weighted money on one side because they can lose big if the wrong side wins. Better to reduce the risks.

 

[Superbone]

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Don't tell us. SHOW us!

 

[Raindog]

JJ does what the owners want him to do. I think he will make it another year.

While I won't say it's impossible that he will last another year in his job, there's no way Ishbia (or Sarver before him) is micromanaging every move Jones makes. He's been plenty stupid on his own.

 

[SweetD]

On one hand I have enjoyed the refs going back old school play and allow way more contact. But not sure our team is built to be physical and take the extra contact.

 

[AzStevenCal]

On one hand I have enjoyed the refs going back old school play and allow way more contact. But not sure our team is built to be physical and take the extra contact.

They aren't and there's really no excuse for them missing the trend. Although the NBA changed the way the game is called in the middle of this season, we were already too soft for the way the league had been playing. Ever since the -Bubble year playoffs the league has gradually allowed more physical play on both ends while we've gradually become even more finesse.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I kinda don’t think they have a choice. Retreads ain’t fixing this. Gotta hope they can identify the next young riley or Phil.

I'd settle for a Lue or Spolestra.

 

[Phrazbit]

So, tell me… how does the viewing public set the standard for favorites in sporting events?

We were favorites in the series… by Vegas, by pretty much half of the sports writers across major organizations and by pretty much everyone here. I thought that was pretty nuts and put my money against the notion.

And so far, I’ve been proven right annd we’ve gotten our pants pulled down and spanked in humiliating fashion so far from a franchise that hasn’t won a playoff series in two decades.

Bookies are trying to take advantage of the larger public, they’re not trying to pick winners. They want to dupe people who buy into the hype. If you want to bet on a popular team you’re not getting much juice.

They are not setting lines for value on both sides, if a team is heavily bet on by the public then the line to bet on them is going to be driven by that.

Same reason the cowboys generally suck against the spread.

 

[taz02]

Good lord can we stop this? We have picks every other year even if they’re swaps. And for the most part they’re swaps with teams worse than us so there likely won’t even be a swap.

Is this true if we ship out Booker?

We'll need 2-3 seasons of high lotto pics to get back on track.

 

[Covert Rain]

This game will determine if this team is completely rotten at the core or if it has any fight whatsoever. If this team rolls over in this game? It's going to be UGLY this off season with no clear way out of it. We have every other pick but those won't be high impact picks (swap or not) and they won't develop anytime soon. This game and how Book plays is going to reveal a ton about him too.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Bookies are trying to take advantage of the larger public, they’re not trying to pick winners. They want to dupe people who buy into the hype. If you want to bet on a popular team you’re not getting much juice.

They are not setting lines for value on both sides, if a team is heavily bet on by the public then the line to bet on them is going to be driven by that.

Same reason the cowboys generally suck against the spread.

So, I guess there’s just no such thing as sports favorites, huh?

 

[Covert Rain]

So, I guess there’s just no such thing as sports favorites, huh?

I found this great site that explains it. It says bookies analyze performance of teams and players involved in a particular game. They assess recent and past results to set the probability of each outcome for every type of result. So in a way they are trying to pick winners by assessing those probabilities for each type of bet and they spread money to balance the bets so they can turn a profit. So they do calculate the odds of teams wining to help them set the "The vig" which helps set the bookmaker’s price. So, it doesn't at all seem to be predicated simply on where betters are placing their money.

Fascinating stuff. I am not a sports gambler but always wondered how it worked.

How Do Bookmakers Create Sports Odds? | Bookies.com

Ever wondered, how do bookmakers create their odds? Click here to learn the ins and outs of how odds and lines are set and what causes them to change!

bookies.com

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Is this true if we ship out Booker?

We'll need 2-3 seasons of high lotto pics to get back on track.

Probably not. But even then those picks aren’t going to be huge moves down if I recall correctly. Mostly with middling teams.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Bigger, longer, more athletic, more healthy, all the momentum. I'm not liking our chances.

 

[Raindog]

Good lord can we stop this? We have picks every other year even if they’re swaps. And for the most part they’re swaps with teams worse than us so there likely won’t even be a swap.

We are definitely going to need to maximize the value we do get out of our draft picks going forward. And the only way that's likely to happen is for Ishbia to invest in good scouting and player development... and especially, good front office people that he will allow to do their jobs without meddling.

But none of that can actually happen with an empty suit like James Jones as the main personnel guy. Jones has already made it clear in his time here that he doesn't give a flying fart about the draft, nor does he pay attention to the prevailing personnel needs of the team over his own idiosyncratic "philosophy."

And I can guarantee that if he continues to be the Suns GM, it will continue to be the case that he fritters away whatever value the draft may have to help the franchise retool.

 

[Dr. Jones]

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