Timberwolves @ Suns game thread 12-23-17

[Mainstreet]

Chriss is really into the game tonight showing some flashes. I like it.

 

[Mainstreet]

Chriss with the block on Towns. Wow.

Edit: I do believe that was Towns.

 

[Mainstreet]

Canaan with an in-your-face 3 point shot.

 

[Mainstreet]

End of 3rd quarter:

Timberwolves lead 86-80.

Suns with the nice effort to get back into the game.

 

[devilalum]

Bender -13


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[Mainstreet]

Bender -13

Eddie Johnson mentioned that Bender forgot to jump when going for a layup and he was fouled. Maybe this is part of Bender's problems. He doesn't know when do jump. It's not always natural for young players.

 

[Mainstreet]

Final:

Timberwolves 115 - Suns 106

Warren was not getting the benefit of any foul calls on his shots by the referees.

He still had 24 points and 9 rebounds.

Canaan had 15 points and 9 assists.

 

[SirStefan32]

Eddie Johnson mentioned that Bender forgot to jump when going for a layup and he was fouled. Maybe this is part of Bender's problems. He doesn't know when do jump. It's not always natural for young players.

Watch his three pointers too- whether or not he makes them or not depends on whether or not he jumps or shoot them as free throws.

 

[devilalum]

Really like the way the Suns came out and played hard in the second half.


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[Mainstreet]

Watch his three pointers too- whether or not he makes them or not depends on whether or not he jumps or shoot them as free throws.

Hopefully this can be corrected.

Chandler played well and had 15 rebounds but I was surprised they didn't play Len more.

 

[Mainstreet]

Really like the way the Suns came out and played hard in the second half.

The Suns really got after it in the third quarter.

 

[devilalum]

Will a 3 guard rotation of Booker, Canaan and Daniels work?


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[Mainstreet]

Will a 3 guard rotation of Booker, Canaan and Daniels work?

Booker, Canaan and Warren should be enough firepower as starters most nights. I think the Suns are more interested in developing their young players than winning.

 

[elindholm]

I'm sorry, but saying that a player with a "high basketball IQ" needs to be taught when to jump is a new level of absurdity.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm sorry, but saying that a player with a "high basketball IQ" needs to be taught when to jump is a new level of absurdity.

the lengths to which people are defending Bender at this point are becoming funnier by the game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Eddie Johnson mentioned that Bender forgot to jump when going for a layup and he was fouled. Maybe this is part of Bender's problems. He doesn't know when do jump. It's not always natural for young players.

remember a ways back when I said i think people are REALLY trying hard to see improvements in Bender.

I can imagine you saying this about a 10 year old... not a guy who "played point guard" in Europe and was the 4th pick in the draft two years ago.

 

[SirStefan32]

I'm sorry, but saying that a player with a "high basketball IQ" needs to be taught when to jump is a new level of absurdity.

I don't think it's that simple, Eric. He is transitioning from playing a certain way in Europe to the NBA. In Europe, at 7'1, you can lay it up and not get blocked. As for the three point shot, he might not need to elevate shooting from just over 22 feet, but at almost 24 feet, that doesn't quite work.

I know you dislike Bender, but this argument is silly. If you do something a certain way your whole life, and then you have to change a couple of things, it's gonna take you a little while no matter how smart you are. Nobody is saying he needs to be taught how to jump- that's ridiculous. We are saying that he needs to change his habits, muscle memory, or whatever else we want to call it. Last year, his shot was flat due to no jumping and not enough arc most of the time. This year, it's fine most of the time.

My go-to guitar, for example is a Fender Strat. I am used to it. I don't need to think about which pickup I need to use for certain songs or parts of a song. It's muscle memory because I've been playing it for over 15 years now. When I got a Les Paul, it was weird- it took me a while to get used to different controls. I am fine with it today, though it's still more natural for me play my Strat because I still play it far more often than my Les Pauls, ES-355, and whatever else I may play once in a long while.

I typically shoot semi-auto pistols with short and crisp trigger pull. When I took a revolver to the range, I was terrible because I wasn't used to long trigger pull. It took me a while to adjust.

There are numerous examples of this in life. Bender is going through the same thing. He will be fine.

 

[elindholm]

My go-to guitar, for example is a Fender Strat. I am used to it. I don't need to think about which pickup I need to use for certain songs or parts of a song. It's muscle memory because I've been playing it for over 15 years now. When I got a Les Paul, it was weird- it took me a while to get used to different controls. I am fine with it today, though it's still more natural for me play my Strat because I still play it far more often than my Les Pauls, ES-355, and whatever else I may play once in a long while.

I don't know Bender's background, but his Wikipedia page says that he didn't even start playing until he was 12, which is a whopping eight years ago. And he played a grand total of about 70 minutes in Euroleague before the Suns drafted him. He came to the Suns very, very green. It's silly to talk about how he was some established international dynamo who needs only to "modify" his game for the NBA. He has no game and he needs to develop one. That's okay, but then we need to drop the nonsense about how his level of understanding is already so high.

Also, you do not get paid millions of dollars a year to play the guitar, and you are not expected to be one of the 300-or-so best guitarists in the world. The standards for professionals are much higher than the standards for good amateurs. I remember Barkley making that point -- fans simply have no idea how much better the pros are than they are.

I'm perfectly fine with saying that we should be patient with Bender and give him a chance to figure out how to play basketball at a professional level. After all, he has a frame that not many other people have, and he is eager to learn. But the claims that we can already see greatness in him make me want to claw my eyes out. It's unadulterated, fantastical delusion.

 

[SirStefan32]

Actually Bender has been playing professionally since he was 15 years old. Started in Split (Team that the likes of Tony Kukoc and Dino Raja played for), was loaned out to a team in the second division, then moved to Maccabi where he got a chance to play in Euro League). Note that there are national leagues and then Euro Leage. Just because he only played a certain number of minutes in Euroleague does not mean he hadn't played professionally before that or during the same year.

Nobody claims that he was a well-established European dynamo of some sort, but he's been playing professionally since 2012 or so. If you do something a certain way for a number of years, it's going to take some time to adjust. Shooting a FIBA three is different from shooting the three in the NBA. It's a big difference- almost two feet. Your shot HAS to change. Last season, he shot under 30%, and this year he is close to 40%. last time I looked, it was 38% vs. 28%.

Regardless of whether or not you like him, it is silly to mock people for commenting on his basketball IQ. If you watch him for five minutes, you will see that he understands the game. Watch him, and then watch Chriss. You will see a noticeable difference. Game is still happening in an entirely different speed for him, but you can see that he does understand certain things very well, and does some of them better than most players on the roster.

My old guitar teacher once told me not to worry about speed, and that I would be OK since I played a pentatonic scale right every single time, every note was clear, and I knew all the patterns. I had the fundamentals, but playing with someone was problematic- it was happening too fast, but my fundamentals were sound (pun intended.) Yes, I know I am not getting paid millions of dollars to play guitar and I am not expected to be one of the best guitarists in the world, but the analogy still stands.

 

[elindholm]

Note that there are national leagues and then Euro Leage. Just because he only played a certain number of minutes in Euroleague does not mean he hadn't played professionally before that or during the same year.

I understand that, but the "professional" leagues he played in were probably, what, around the level of NCAA Division II? It's professional because he was paid for it, but it wasn't anything close to what he's trying to do now.

Shooting a FIBA three is different from shooting the three in the NBA. It's a big difference- almost two feet. Your shot HAS to change.

I just don't buy this. NBA players have the same mechanics from 18 feet as they do from 16, or from 24 feet as they do from 22. Heck, Stephen Curry has the same mechanics from 40 as he does from 30. Yes, accuracy goes down as you get farther away (for most players), and for some (TJ Warren for example), the drop-off happens more quickly. But it doesn't become a fundamentally different shot when you go from the international three-point line to the NBA one.

If you watch him for five minutes, you will see that he understands the game. Watch him, and then watch Chriss. You will see a noticeable difference.

You act as though I don't watch games, or haven't been paying attention to both Bender and Chriss.

My old guitar teacher once told me not to worry about speed, and that I would be OK since I played a pentatonic scale right every single time, every note was clear, and I knew all the patterns. I had the fundamentals, but playing with someone was problematic- it was happening too fast, but my fundamentals were sound (pun intended.) Yes, I know I am not getting paid millions of dollars to play guitar and I am not expected to be one of the best guitarists in the world, but the analogy still stands.

It doesn't really. I can't name the world's most talented guitarists, but I can tell you from being around other elite musicians that the process "slowed down" for them almost as soon as they first picked up an instrument. They get it in a way that mere mortals don't. Someone can practice their ass off and learn all of the muscle patterns they want, and they might get to be a very fine player, but they'll never be world-class.

I don't know whether the sports world is the same. Michael Jordan was cut from his high school JV team, or whatever the story is. Since sports depends on the body much more than music does, there's a transition when someone goes through puberty that can't be predicted. Then there are issues like how well the body resists injury or responds to rigorous training. So it may be true that someone has a better chance of "catching up" in sports than they do in music.

Anyway, I'll stop harping on the praise of Bender's basketball IQ. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong and then we will all be happy.

 

[Mainstreet]

remember a ways back when I said i think people are REALLY trying hard to see improvements in Bender.

I can imagine you saying this about a 10 year old... not a guy who "played point guard" in Europe and was the 4th pick in the draft two years ago.

This is true but hope reigns eternal.

Hopefully Bender is a 10 year old in terms of his NBA development.

Although Len is probably not the best example, he is only now figuring out the game.

 

[elindholm]

Although Len is probably not the best example, he is only now figuring out the game.

I agree that Len has reached a level I didn't think was possible. This year's version definitely belongs on an NBA roster somewhere, maybe even in Phoenix.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree that Len has reached a level I didn't think was possible. This year's version definitely belongs on an NBA roster somewhere, maybe even in Phoenix.

I was ready to write him off not so long ago. Now I think he has a solid though not spectacular future.

 

[overseascardfan]

Len & Williams should be able to man the C spot beyond this year. Unless PHX thinks they can sign Capela away from HOU or draft Ayton, there is no reason to let Len go. I know PHX and Chandler have an arrangement but the money owed to him is needed so maybe we can accommodate a deal to a team that can give him the same arrangement he has with PHX.

I consider dealing either or both Bender or Chriss if we can get someone more proven than either. Maybe target guys like Gordon, Sabonis or use them to get a second high lottery pick in this year's draft so we can increase our chances of landing Bagley & Young.

 

[SirStefan32]

I agree that Len has reached a level I didn't think was possible. This year's version definitely belongs on an NBA roster somewhere, maybe even in Phoenix.

Who are you and what have you done with the good Professor we've all grown to know and love?