Time for the DH in the NL?

[AzStevenCal]

Originally Posted by JS22
No. The opposite. Get rid of it.

THIS x 2,000.

I'm fine with that too, whatever it takes to make baseball fundamentally the same in each of our major leagues. Does anyone have any suggestions how to accomplish this?

Steve

 

[Dback Jon]

I'm fine with that too, whatever it takes to make baseball fundamentally the same in each of our major leagues. Does anyone have any suggestions how to accomplish this?

Steve

Yes. Aliens invade. They allow humans to continue to run their own affairs on the one condition that the DH rule be eliminated.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yes. Aliens invade. They allow humans to continue to run their own affairs on the one condition that the DH rule be eliminated.

That won't work. How do you think the AL came up with the rule in the first place?

Pinch hitters aren't stars but the same isn't true for the DH spot. There is a lot of name recognition and it's an easy way to rest your aging superstars in order to extend their careers. I can't see the MLBPA letting this happen without something significant in return.

Steve

 

[AZ Native]

It was a thing of beauty and I enjoyed it immensely. But, I would have also enjoyed watching Gibson go down to the end of the bench to wake up Rusty Staub so he could hit a 2 run game ending home run.

I never really saw the need for the DH but I have no problems with it. I do have a problem with the inequity between the leagues and adding it to the NL seems to be the only way to truly level this ground. I know the traditionalists would like to keep it as it is but there was a time when strikes were not called, pitchers threw underhanded, batters could call for high or low pitches and so on. For me, there is nothing sacred in having pitchers hit but I do prefer it.

Steve

So you saw sacrifice Pennington to 2nd too? I thought is was Kubel he moved to second. I guess I have have to lay off the wine in the extra innings games.

 

[AzStevenCal]

So you saw sacrifice Pennington to 2nd too? I thought is was Kubel he moved to second. I guess I have have to lay off the wine in the extra innings games.

I was focusing on the play more than the players when I commented but I think you're correct. Wasn't it Pennington that singled in the run?

Steve

 

[BC867]

I was focusing on the play more than the players when I commented but I think you're correct. Wasn't it Pennington that singled in the run?

Steve

It was Pennington who singled in the winning run.

 

[Brian]

DH's aren't baseball players plain and simple. Nobody ever confused Travis Hafner with a baseball player.

 

[AzStevenCal]

DH's aren't baseball players plain and simple.

Says you. There's no reasonable definition you can come up with that supports that claim. Does a national leaguer stop being a baseball player simply because he moves to that spot during inter-league play? A lot of designated hitters take the field occasionally and eventually, just about every good power hitter in the AL fills that spot at times.

Steve

 

[PDXChris]

DH's aren't baseball players plain and simple. Nobody ever confused Travis Hafner with a baseball player.

Hafner played a lot of 1B early in his career his fielding % is .989. If the DH did not exist, he would have been a primary 1B. Instead, the Indians had Ben Broussard who put up great numbers as well during Hafners best years. To say that Travis Hafner would not still be playing at 36 if not for the DH is more appropriate. The same could be said for Babe Ruth too who was a way below average position player and had a terrible fielding % late in his career and that is on balls he could make a play on. If the DH had existed then, he may have played another 5 years and could have hit another 200 HR. So, if you think about it, the DH could have prevented Bonds from cheating his way to the record. <- For Bonds getting the record.

 

[Brian]

Says you. There's no reasonable definition you can come up with that supports that claim. Does a national leaguer stop being a baseball player simply because he moves to that spot during inter-league play? A lot of designated hitters take the field occasionally and eventually, just about every good power hitter in the AL fills that spot at times.

Steve

Yeah says me. Do they field a position? No. Do they throw a baseball? No. One half of the game of baseball isn't played by designated hitters.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah says me. Do they field a position? No. Do they throw a baseball? No. One half of the game of baseball isn't played by designated hitters.

I think you missed the point. Sometimes they field, sometimes they don't. Most designated hitters spend time in the field. If you stand out in right field and no one hits the ball your direction do you stop being a baseball player? Do you stop being a baseball player if you flub the only ball hit your direction? Do you stop being a baseball player if you sit on the bench until the 9th inning and only enter the game as a pinch hitter or a pinch runner?

Steve

 

[Brian]

I think you missed the point. Sometimes they field, sometimes they don't. Most designated hitters spend time in the field. If you stand out in right field and no one hits the ball your direction do you stop being a baseball player? Do you stop being a baseball player if you flub the only ball hit your direction? Do you stop being a baseball player if you sit on the bench until the 9th inning and only enter the game as a pinch hitter or a pinch runner?

Steve

No they don't. They rarely spend time in the field. Let us end this. I think the DH is a joke, you do not. Cool.

Yes you do. Who crossed home plate in the 2001 World Series in the bottom of the 9th, game 7 to tie the game? Was he a baseball player? It was Midre Cummings. Who? Midre-freaking-Cummings. Enough said.

 

[Mathew81]

Just leave it the way it is. It's worked alright for 40 years.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No they don't. They rarely spend time in the field. Let us end this. I think the DH is a joke, you do not. Cool.

Yes you do. Who crossed home plate in the 2001 World Series in the bottom of the 9th, game 7 to tie the game? Was he a baseball player? It was Midre Cummings. Who? Midre-freaking-Cummings. Enough said.

You're right , I don't think the DH is a joke. I really don't know that it improves the game though, I'm mostly in favor of it because I think both leagues should be playing by the same rules.

The numbers here are convincingly against the DH rule, which is not all that surprising. I wonder how the numbers break when the question is asked of an AL audience? I know when it was first adopted that everyone I talked to in the Valley was against it but that was long before Phoenix went National. I'm curious if Yankees fans, for example, have come to love it. Or do they just tolerate it?

Steve

 

[DWKB]

Lets also make pitchers throw complete games. After all a relief pitcher isn't a real baseball player. The arguments for not having a DH are arcane just like the idea of current pitchers hitting.

Most of what is confused for "strategy" in the NL regarding pitchers hitting is nothing but wrote "unwritten rules" that everyone follows. Real strategy looks like when LaRussa was hitting his pitchers 8th.

Then again, I hate arbitrary and kneejerk conservatism.

 

[Dback Jon]

I think baseball should allow for designated runners. Who wants to see a slow catcher, first baseman or DH plod around the bases - it really slows the game down, and leads to too many double plays.

Teams should be able to have players that only run - sub in and out for up to two players a game.

Just think of all the opportunity for speed guys, whose careers need extending, or starting.

 

[BC867]

I think baseball should allow for designated runners. Who wants to see a slow catcher, first baseman or DH plod around the bases - it really slows the game down, and leads to too many double plays.

Teams should be able to have players that only run - sub in and out for up to two players a game.

Just think of all the opportunity for speed guys, whose careers need extending, or starting.

That's funny. Taking a player out of the game, then putting him back in. In baseball. How come you didn't use a smiley face?

Hey, why don't you go all the way and invent a variation of baseball called substituteball. When a lefty power hitter comes up, substitute a strong armed outfielder in RF, then bring back the original RF for the next play. Or maybe have a substitution in the middle of the play as in hockey.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Lets also make pitchers throw complete games. After all a relief pitcher isn't a real baseball player. The arguments for not having a DH are arcane just like the idea of current pitchers hitting.

Most of what is confused for "strategy" in the NL regarding pitchers hitting is nothing but wrote "unwritten rules" that everyone follows. Real strategy looks like when LaRussa was hitting his pitchers 8th.

Then again, I hate arbitrary and kneejerk conservatism.

Out of curiousity, what makes pitchers having to hit any more or less arcane than any of the other long running rules of the game?

 

[Dback Jon]

That's funny. Taking a player out of the game, then putting him back in. In baseball. How come you didn't use a smiley face?

Hey, why don't you go all the way and invent a variation of baseball called substituteball. When a lefty power hitter comes up, substitute a strong armed outfielder in RF, then bring back the original RF for the next play. Or maybe have a substitution in the middle of the play as in hockey.

Kind of like taking the pitcher out of the batting order, but letting him still pitch. That could never happen in BASEBALL.


oh wait, it does.

 

[TheHopToad]

The game was invented with the concept that there are nine players in the field playing defense and that each of those nine players then gets a turn at bat. There's no reason that pitchers can't hit. They just don't practice it and the coaches and managers don't focus on it.

Because somebody is not good at something is not a reason to excuse them from having to do it. Why stop at pitchers? Maybe have two DHs in the game because a lot of shortstops and second basemen can't hit well either. Why not have designated fielders too? Or we can just expand the rosters and make it like football where you have separate players batting and fielding altogether.

I just don't get the love for the DH, to me it dilutes the game from what it was intended to be. When you do get a pitcher who can hit, and there have been plenty of them throughout the years, it gives him and his team a great advantage.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The game was invented with the concept that there are nine players in the field playing defense and that each of those nine players then gets a turn at bat. There's no reason that pitchers can't hit. They just don't practice it and the coaches and managers don't focus on it.

Because somebody is not good at something is not a reason to excuse them from having to do it. Why stop at pitchers? Maybe have two DHs in the game because a lot of shortstops and second basemen can't hit well either. Why not have designated fielders too? Or we can just expand the rosters and make it like football where you have separate players batting and fielding altogether.

I just don't get the love for the DH, to me it dilutes the game from what it was intended to be. When you do get a pitcher who can hit, and there have been plenty of them throughout the years, it gives him and his team a great advantage.

The game was also invented with the concept that everyone should get their kind of pitch to hit. The pitcher threw it underhanded and the batter could just watch pitch after pitch go by until he saw the one he wanted. The game has evolved considerably since it's earliest days. I don't know if the DH is evolutionary or merely a change but I really don't see it as anything other than a mild preference.

I understand the people that simply have a preference for or against it but I have trouble understanding the almost religious fervor associated with the anti-DH side. I think it will still be baseball, a great game, whether both leagues use the DH or neither league uses it. I just think it would be better for both leagues to follow the same rules. It would be easier to adopt the rule in the NL for many reasons not the least being that it has been adopted by pretty much every league at every level.

Steve

 

[AZ Native]

I know it was a long, long time ago, but when I was kid playing Little League and advanced leagues, the pitchers seemed to be the best athletes and were some of the best hitters. That is all lost as they advance.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I know it was a long, long time ago, but when I was kid playing Little League and advanced leagues, the pitchers seemed to be the best athletes and were some of the best hitters. That is all lost as they advance.

Yeah, I have no idea if that is still the case but it was certainly common back in the 60's.

Steve

 

[Brian]

Yeah, I have no idea if that is still the case but it was certainly common back in the 60's.

Steve

Still holds true today. My son's High School team is #3 in the nation and one of their star pitchers is a kid I coached for three years in little league. Phenomenal athlete. Has a FILTHY change-up, a fastball that moves all over the place, great glove, and can hit for power or average.

No idea when these guys lose the ability to hit.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Yeah, the phenomenon doesn't really stop until they turn pro. Lots of college pitchers are great hitters as well. They basically stop working on it the instant they get to the minors as few front office type people think that more than a handful could potentially be MLB quality at both pitching and hitting. The opposite happens as well. Take Ike Davis for example, he was ASU's friday night starter plus he was a lineup regular on days he did not pitch. Scouts liked him better as a hitter than a pitcher, so that's what he bacame full time after being drafted by the Mets.