To analogize my perspective.

[Phrazbit]

I love the Suns, with all my heart. Its like if you're a parent and you see you kid, his grades are slipping, he starts hanging out with a bad crowd then he gets caught using meth... It breaks the heart, but you cant just dump them. You gotta hope they pull it together. Thats the Suns right now.

Some of you guys are the doddering mothers who sit there in denial and heap praise upon the kid no matter how bad they get. But I (and a few others here) are the depressed dad, sitting in the corner wondering where it all when so wrong.

I dont even want them to tank, I just want them to make sound choices for the future. They are not doing that.

This is going to be an awful team. And they are building for nothing but some ugly and depressing years of basketball.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I love the Suns, with all my heart. Its like if you're a parent and you see you kid, his grades are slipping, he starts hanging out with a bad crowd then he gets caught using meth... It breaks the heart, but you cant just dump them. You gotta hope they pull it together. Thats the Suns right now.

Some of you guys are the doddering mothers who sit there in denial and heap praise upon the kid no matter how bad they get. But I (and a few others here) are the depressed dad, sitting in the corner wondering where it all when so wrong.

I dont even want them to tank, I just want them to make sound choices for the future. They are not doing that.

This is going to be an awful team. And they are building for nothing but some ugly and depressing years of basketball.

this is where I'm at too.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I love the Suns, with all my heart. Its like if you're a parent and you see you kid, his grades are slipping, he starts hanging out with a bad crowd then he gets caught using meth... It breaks the heart, but you cant just dump them. You gotta hope they pull it together. Thats the Suns right now.

Some of you guys are the doddering mothers who sit there in denial and heap praise upon the kid no matter how bad they get. But I (and a few others here) are the depressed dad, sitting in the corner wondering where it all when so wrong.

I dont even want them to tank, I just want them to make sound choices for the future. They are not doing that.

This is going to be an awful team. And they are building for nothing but some ugly and depressing years of basketball.

I am pretty sure that everyone understands your perspective since you repeat it over and over in every thread.

My perspective is you need to get over it or move on. It isn't changing without a change in ownership.

They will not tank. They are happy being an 8 seed. There is no chance for a championship anytime soon. So take it for what it is, entertainment. If you aren't entertained...then spend your time and money elsewhere.

No one is forcing you into this "depression".

 

[95pro]

I am pretty sure that everyone understands your perspective since you repeat it over and over in every thread.

My perspective is you need to get over it or move on. It isn't changing without a change in ownership.

They will not tank. They are happy being an 8 seed. There is no chance for a championship anytime soon. So take it for what it is, entertainment. If you aren't entertained...then spend your time and money elsewhere.

No one is forcing you into this "depression".

thank you

its the same ish from the same mouths everytime on every thread

 

[Cheesebeef]

thank you

its the same ish from the same mouths everytime on every thread

it's the same ish from the same mouths everytime the other way as well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am pretty sure that everyone understands your perspective since you repeat it over and over in every thread.

right... because the "Sun"shiners don't repeat the same things over and over in every thread too?

My perspective is you need to get over it or move on.

wow... is this a moderator telling someone to leave the board if they're not going to be whistling dixie?

that sucks.

They will not tank. They are happy being an 8 seed.

this much is clear. and even more clear is a majority of the board is happy being an 8 seed as well. personally, I don't get it, but I'd never tell people to shut up or leave the board because I think they're wrong.

 

[SweetD]

I don't think Chris was asking you to leave the board, he was stating to accept the fact that the Suns are not going to win a title this year. What I don't get many want to complain about the Suns moves, but there is no way what so every you are going to put a team together in one year to match up talent wise vs the top teams.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think Chris was asking you to leave the board, he was stating to accept the fact that the Suns are not going to win a title this year.

are you serious? He's not saying that at all and Chris is smart enough to know that the people he's talking KNOW we're not going to win a title this year.

What I don't get many want to complain about the Suns moves, but there is no way what so every you are going to put a team together in one year to match up talent wise vs the top teams.

who in the world is saying that's what they expected? seriously, stop putting ridiculous arguments in other mouths. it destroys any reasonable conversation.

 

[SweetD]

I love the Suns, with all my heart. Its like if you're a parent and you see you kid, his grades are slipping, he starts hanging out with a bad crowd then he gets caught using meth... It breaks the heart, but you cant just dump them. You gotta hope they pull it together. Thats the Suns right now.

Some of you guys are the doddering mothers who sit there in denial and heap praise upon the kid no matter how bad they get. But I (and a few others here) are the depressed dad, sitting in the corner wondering where it all when so wrong.

I dont even want them to tank, I just want them to make sound choices for the future. They are not doing that.

This is going to be an awful team. And they are building for nothing but some ugly and depressing years of basketball.

This calls into question how long have you been a fan? Did you even go through the years where the Suns didn't make the playoffs year after year? Or every year get nocked out of the first round? Or just the past five years? You even stated in another thread you wanted them to suck and just build through the draft.

 

[SweetD]

are you serious? He's not saying that at all and Chris is smart enough to know that the people he's talking KNOW we're not going to win a title this year.



who in the world is saying that's what they expected? seriously, stop putting ridiculous arguments in other mouths. it destroys any reasonable conversation.

Yes because your such a hoot to have a conversation with. How about offer some real input instead of ridicules banter.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I don't think Chris was asking you to leave the board, he was stating to accept the fact that the Suns are not going to win a title this year. What I don't get many want to complain about the Suns moves, but there is no way what so every you are going to put a team together in one year to match up talent wise vs the top teams.

That is exactly what I was saying. They are going to tank and they aren't going to contend. so just get over it and move on.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

are you serious? He's not saying that at all and Chris is smart enough to know that the people he's talking KNOW we're not going to win a title this year.



who in the world is saying that's what they expected? seriously, stop putting ridiculous arguments in other mouths. it destroys any reasonable conversation.

Actually he was pretty dead on except for leaving out the "we aren't tanking either"

This is the reality....we are going to be somewhere between six and twelve. Either watch it and take it for what it is or find something else to do with your entertainment time.

 

[sunsfan88]

I love the Suns, with all my heart. Its like if you're a parent and you see you kid, his grades are slipping, he starts hanging out with a bad crowd then he gets caught using meth... It breaks the heart, but you cant just dump them. You gotta hope they pull it together. Thats the Suns right now.

Some of you guys are the doddering mothers who sit there in denial and heap praise upon the kid no matter how bad they get. But I (and a few others here) are the depressed dad, sitting in the corner wondering where it all when so wrong.

I dont even want them to tank, I just want them to make sound choices for the future. They are not doing that.

This is going to be an awful team. And they are building for nothing but some ugly and depressing years of basketball.

this is where I'm at too.

Here's an article for the both of you to read to maybe cheer you up:

Phoenix Suns Offseason Moves & Analysis

By Chris Bernucca

You must be registered for see images

UNDER CONTRACT: C Marcin Gortat, F-C Channing Frye, F Luis Scola, F Hakim Warrick, G Jared Dudley, F Markieff Morris, G Goran Dragic, F Michael Beasley


DRAFT PICKS: G Kendall Marshall


FREE AGENTS: C Robin Lopez (R), G Aaron Brooks, G Shannon Brown, F Grant Hill, G Ronnie Price, G Michael Redd, F Josh Childress


MOVES: The Suns have done pretty well for a team whose biggest offseason splashes were the departure of the face of the franchise and a maximum offer sheet being matched. They have have moved on from Steve Nash, stunning the NBA world by trading him to the Lakers – and cashing in nicely. Phoenix got back 2013 and 2015 first-rounders, 2013 and 2014 second-rounders, $3 million and an $8.2 million trade exception, increasing their flexibility. They spent very little time grieving, signing Eric Gordon to an offer sheet worth the maximum $58 million over four years. Gordon badly wanted to play in Phoenix, but New Orleans matched the offer sheet. On the day they traded Nash, the Suns agreed with point guard Goran Dragic on a four-year, $30 million and scoring forward Michael Beasley on a three-year, $18 million deal. Immediately after Gordon returned to New Orleans, Phoenix used the amnesty clause on Josh Childress and submitted the winning three-year, $13 million bid on Luis Scola, Houston’s amnesty victim.


TO-DO LIST: The Suns still have cap room and need to use it to fill the holes in their roster, most notably at shooting guard. Phoenix could re-sign Shannon Brown or Michael Redd – or it could go after someone like O.J. Mayo or Courtney Lee. Among its own free agents, Phoenix has reached out to Robin Lopez, whom it hopes to have back up Gortat again. It will not pursue Aaron Brooks, with rookie Kendall Marshall positioned behind Dragic. The Suns can make more moves this summer, or hold their cap room and wait a year.


PROJECTION: You have to wonder if players such as Gortat and Frye will be as good with Dragic rather than Nash delivering the ball. He is a good young point guard but does not possess the skills or savvy of Nash. Phoenix is not a playoff team in the loaded Western Conference, but its rebuilding plan is well under way, and it should be competitive with a potential lineup of Scola-Beasley-Gortat-Dragic-Mayo. The Suns have loads of draft picks, no overbearing contracts and a handful of good, young players. By the middle of this decade, the Suns could be a huge factor in the West.


http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/07/16/phoenix-suns-offseason-moves-analysis/

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Btw cheese, at no point did I tell anyone to shut up or to leave the board. My entire point was that this is the reality of the Suns so either adapt or find things to watch that don't make you depressed

 

[SweetD]

Funny just look at wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Suns#1976-1987:_New_Ownership

1996-2004: Average Times

The beginning of 2004 saw the departure of the face of Suns management since the team's inception, when Jerry Colangelo announced that the Phoenix Suns were to be sold to an investment group headed by San Diego-based business executive (and Tucson native) Robert Sarver for $401 million. However, the 2004–05 season marked the Suns' return to the NBA's elite, finishing with the best record at 62–20, and tying a franchise record set by the 1992–93 team.

So the most consistant winning years have all under Sarver... But you guys are right this Sarver is the worse owner out there. psst!

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm 31, I started watching basketball when I was about 9 years old. So, I watched throughout the last 2+ decades.

And Sarver inherited a team with 3 young stars, a ton of cap space and a top 10 pick in that years draft, he bought them at the perfect time to get a run of success in his first years. And I really wish we'd had Jerry during that time because he would have said "luxury tax be damned, we're on the brink of a title".

I am not as low on Sarver as some posters, but to claim he has handled the franchise' future well is inane. And he is not the worst owner in the league. James Dolan has that title locked up. Its almost impossible to spend like the Knicks have during the last 15 years and still been among the worst franchises in the league.

And I am not saying the Suns have to deliberately be bad. But tying up cap space in mediocre role players while having nothing to build around is a terrible idea. Its not by and stretch of the imagination a recipe for a successful team on ANY level.

 

[SirStefan32]

Funny just look at wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Suns#1976-1987:_New_Ownership




So the most consistant winning years have all under Sarver... But you guys are right this Sarver is the worse owner out there. psst!

I swear that people would complain if we traded Lopez and Fry for Howard.

No matter what the Suns do, there is a group of people who just criticize.

I must admit that I wanted to start tanking two years ago, and I don't necessarily like every single move they've made this summer, but I think that they are doing the right thing in collecting assets- draft picks, and players on moderately good contracts that they can use to trade for some stars.

I wish people would give Babby a chance instead of throwing proverbial hissy fits after every single move, and then on every single thread.

 

[SweetD]

I'm 31, I started watching basketball when I was about 9 years old. So, I watched throughout the last 2+ decades.

And Sarver inherited a team with 3 young stars, a ton of cap space and a top 10 pick in that years draft, he bought them at the perfect time to get a run of success in his first years. And I really wish we'd had Jerry during that time because he would have said "luxury tax be damned, we're on the brink of a title".

I am not as low on Sarver as some posters, but to claim he has handled the franchise' future well is inane. And he is not the worst owner in the league. James Dolan has that title locked up. Its almost impossible to spend like the Knicks have during the last 15 years and still been among the worst franchises in the league.

And I am not saying the Suns have to deliberately be bad. But tying up cap space in mediocre role players while having nothing to build around is a terrible idea. Its not by and stretch of the imagination a recipe for a successful team on ANY level.

I guess that is were we differ. I don't see a 24 year old who can score 16-20 points a game as mediocre role player. Childress, Warrick fit that bill, but Dragic, Beasley and possible Mayo don't meet that. I would put them above average prospects that if given a chance to be starters have shown potential to be good starters. They were not paid max money nor signed to long term deals. Plan and simple these are above average contracts for players that have at least proven to be able to play in the NBA.

 

[Chaplin]

Seems to me that we're simply seeing what we always see on this (and other) boards. Cliques that are venomous towards each other. Both sides think their opinion is fact and they post as such. It has been quite some time since people were cordial to each other, and I'm as guilty as anyone else.

You've got anti-Sarver and sorta-pro-Sarver. I don't think anybody really likes the guy, but there are those that think he's the devil incarnate and others that think he's a moron, but not too bad when it comes to spending and now has learned to delegate better.

Then you have the Pro-Tankers and Anti-Tankers. Tanking is such an unrealistic notion, I find this battle to be more ridiculous than anything.

You also have the Championshippers vs. the Entertainers. This is a fine line because it's a fact that the Entertainers would also love a Championship. But the Championshippers are the ones that want one at any cost--and that means adopting the Pro-Taking stance and signing multiple mediocre to 1-year deals to get a good draft pick. Nice on paper, but in reality that never works.

Finally, you have this big argument about the draft. Should they have picked Marshall? Or trade down to get two late-round picks? It should be noted that some of those who wanted to trade down are totally against future late-round picks for some reason.

It's like being smack in the middle of a Democrat vs. Republican civil war.

 

[Phrazbit]

I guess that is were we differ. I don't see a 24 year old who can score 16-20 points a game as mediocre role player. Childress, Warrick fit that bill, but Dragic, Beasley and possible Mayo don't meet that. I would put them above average prospects that if given a chance to be starters have shown potential to be good starters. They were not paid max money nor signed to long term deals. Plan and simple these are above average contracts for players that have at least proven to be able to play in the NBA.

There is more to being a quality NBA player than putting points on the board. So far Beasley has failed on all accounts, and he isnt even that great at putting points up because he requires a boat load of shots to get his baskets.

If Beasley is going to be a success here then it will go against what we have seen so far in his career. Beasley's production last season was on more to the Warrick side of the spectrum than anything resembling a quality player. I linked metric stats that showed based on those analytics he and Warrick were interchangeable. I dont think Beasley is quite THAT terrible, but he is not even an average player so far in his career.

And Chaplin, as for the "tank vs anti-tank" if this team has a record around 16-32 at the all-star break would you recommend they become sellers?

 

[Chaplin]

There is more to being a quality NBA player than putting points on the board. So far Beasley has failed on all accounts, and he isnt even that great at putting points up because he requires a boat load of shots to get his baskets.

If Beasley is going to be a success here then it will go against what we have seen so far in his career. Beasley's production last season was on more to the Warrick side of the spectrum than anything resembling a quality player. I linked metric stats that showed based on those analytics he and Warrick were interchangeable. I dont think Beasley is quite THAT terrible, but he is not even an average player so far in his career.

And Chaplin, as for the "tank vs anti-tank" if this team has a record around 16-32 at the all-star break would you recommend they become sellers?

Being bad and losing games is different than tanking. Do you disagree? Tanking is a deliberate attempt to lose games in order to improve draft status.

 

[elindholm]

And Chaplin, as for the "tank vs anti-tank" if this team has a record around 16-32 at the all-star break would you recommend they become sellers?

That's the point. They can't become sellers because the only players with positive trade value are Gortat, Dudley, possibly Marshall, and Scola after another year. Frye's minutes were on the decline last year, and the additions of Scola and Beasley will squeeze him even more, so forget about trading him. Beasley has an outside chance of turning it around, but there's no way in hell anyone will take Dragic off of the Suns' hands without getting a major sweetener as part of the deal.

In terms of trade value, the Suns' entire roster adds up to less than zero.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Actually he was pretty dead on except for leaving out the "we aren't tanking either"

then I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding where a lot of people are coming from. The idea that people who aren't happy are the way they are because we didn't completely reload into a championship team this off-season is so far off base, I don't really know what to say about it.

This is the reality....we are going to be somewhere between six and twelve. Either watch it and take it for what it is or find something else to do with your entertainment time.

okay. so, you're telling me to leave the board. that's good to know.

 

[Chaplin]

okay. so, you're telling me to leave the board. that's good to know.

I've done that several times. Doesn't work.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Btw cheese, at no point did I tell anyone to shut up or to leave the board. My entire point was that this is the reality of the Suns so either adapt or find things to watch that don't make you depressed

when you tell people to get over it or move on, that's what it's coming off as Chris.