To analogize my perspective.

[Cheesebeef]

I've done that several times. Doesn't work.

lol.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I'm 31, I started watching basketball when I was about 9 years old. So, I watched throughout the last 2+ decades.

And Sarver inherited a team with 3 young stars, a ton of cap space and a top 10 pick in that years draft, he bought them at the perfect time to get a run of success in his first years. And I really wish we'd had Jerry during that time because he would have said "luxury tax be damned, we're on the brink of a title".

I am not as low on Sarver as some posters, but to claim he has handled the franchise' future well is inane. And he is not the worst owner in the league. James Dolan has that title locked up. Its almost impossible to spend like the Knicks have during the last 15 years and still been among the worst franchises in the league.

And I am not saying the Suns have to deliberately be bad. But tying up cap space in mediocre role players while having nothing to build around is a terrible idea. Its not by and stretch of the imagination a recipe for a successful team on ANY level.

Well I am one of those that are fairly low on him and the Suns in general. I am just resigned to the fact that I will be a Suns fan no matter how bad the ownership is. Fortunately I have learned to temper my passion and expectations in sports so it doesn't drive me crazy.

 

[Phrazbit]

Being bad and losing games is different than tanking. Do you disagree? Tanking is a deliberate attempt to lose games in order to improve draft status.

I agree, and if you read what I've been saying I have not called for tanking. I want the Suns to retain flexibility, dont give multiyear deals to role players and be a facilitator in trades and cap space and try to accumulate young guys and picks. If they can do that AND be a borderline playoff contender... then GREAT! Houston has done that somewhat but failed to spin their parts into anything... so far.

 

[sunsfan88]

Damn is anyone else tired of the constant whining and b***hing about everything on here?

We signed Dragic. There's nothing you can do about it.

We signed Beasley. There's nothing you can do about it.

We will sign Brown/Mayo/Lee. There's nothing you can do to stop it.

Now basically your choices are that you can either continue to support the team or not.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree, and if you read what I've been saying I have not called for tanking. I want the Suns to retain flexibility, dont give multiyear deals to role players and be a facilitator in trades and cap space and try to accumulate young guys and picks. If they can do that AND be a borderline playoff contender... then GREAT! Houston has done that somewhat but failed to spin their parts into anything... so far.

bingo. but people will keep projecting the "tanking" argument on us because it's easier to argue against.

 

[Phrazbit]

That's the point. They can't become sellers because the only players with positive trade value are Gortat, Dudley, possibly Marshall, and Scola after another year. Frye's minutes were on the decline last year, and the additions of Scola and Beasley will squeeze him even more, so forget about trading him. Beasley has an outside chance of turning it around, but there's no way in hell anyone will take Dragic off of the Suns' hands without getting a major sweetener as part of the deal.

In terms of trade value, the Suns' entire roster adds up to less than zero.

Eeeexactly. And this is why I despise our current moves. We are projecting to be big time sellers and facilitators. But outside of Gortat and Dudley we have next to nothing to sell, and the current spending is eat away at our trade flexibility so we wont even be able to take on some bad deals in exchange for future picks and youth.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

then I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding where a lot of people are coming from. The idea that people who aren't happy are the way they are because we didn't completely reload into a championship team this off-season is so far off base, I don't really know what to say about it.

I am more saying that people keep wondering what "the plan is" and how we can compete for a championship. The simple answer is "the plan" is mediocrity and a hope at the playoffs. We won't be competing for a championship in the foreseeable future.

It becomes bearable when you accept this. Then either you can enjoy the Suns for what they are or you can find something else to do.

okay. so, you're telling me to leave the board. that's good to know.

Nope. You are welcome to stay and complain about things you can't change if it makes you happy. I certainly don't think it is worth getting depressed over.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

when you tell people to get over it or move on, that's what it's coming off as Chris.

I think that is an overly defensive viewpoint to take. I have never said anything about the board. I am talking about the Suns as a whole.

 

[devilalum]

Funny just look at wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Suns#1976-1987:_New_Ownership


So the most consistant winning years have all under Sarver... But you guys are right this Sarver is the worse owner out there. psst!

I'm one of the "Sunshiners" but Sarver did not build that team. He allowed it to decompose but JC and BC built it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am more saying that people keep wondering what "the plan is" and how we can compete for a championship. The simple answer is "the plan" is mediocrity and a hope at the playoffs. We won't be competing for a championship in the foreseeable future.

It becomes bearable when you accept this. Then either you can enjoy the Suns for what they are or you can find something else to do.



Nope. You are welcome to stay and complain about things you can't change if it makes you happy. I certainly don't think it is worth getting depressed over.

lol... i'm not depressed over the Suns. i just think they're pathetic.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm one of the "Sunshiners" but Sarver did not build that team.

yay! someone used my new phrase!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I agree, and if you read what I've been saying I have not called for tanking. I want the Suns to retain flexibility, dont give multiyear deals to role players and be a facilitator in trades and cap space and try to accumulate young guys and picks. If they can do that AND be a borderline playoff contender... then GREAT! Houston has done that somewhat but failed to spin their parts into anything... so far.

I am sure that is a great idea in a perfect world. The organization has no interest in doing this. What can you do.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am sure that is a great idea in a perfect world. The organization has no interest in doing this. What can you do.

rant about it on a message board?

 

[devilalum]

This is the first real chance Sarver has had to orchestrate a complete overhaul. Every since he bought the team he has been retooling around Nash.

IMO the front office is off to a good start. They made some nice moves in the right direction. They are younger and in one summer they've accumulated some nice assets.

Nobody rebuilds in one summer and nobody rebuilds by "Tanking."

 

[SirStefan32]

This is the first real chance Sarver has had to orchestrate a complete overhaul. Every since he bought the team he has been retooling around Nash.

IMO the front office is off to a good start. They made some nice moves in the right direction. They are younger and in one summer they've accumulated some nice assets.

Nobody rebuilds in one summer and nobody rebuilds by "Tanking."

I completely agree. While I don't like some of the player they signed (Beasley and Scola), they've made solid moves- four draft picks (as crappy as they may be), decent players on reasonable contracts, TE from LA, etc are all assets.

I like where they are going so far, and I am really looking forward to seeing where they go next over the next year or two.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

lol... i'm not depressed over the Suns. i just think they're pathetic.

The original poster's analogy was a depressed dad versus a delusional mom. I guess I am the squirrley Uncle.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The original poster's analogy was a depressed dad versus a delusional mom. I guess I am the squirrley Uncle.

nah dude, you went passed depressed a long time ago and have now gotten hooked on xanax to dull yourself to reality.

 

[Phrazbit]

The original poster's analogy was a depressed dad versus a delusional mom. I guess I am the squirrley Uncle.

Ah, wearing sandals to Christmas dinner and telling the nieces and nephews that no matter what they do they're still screwed in the end.

Gotta have that guy lounging about.

 

[Joe Mama]

I swear that people would complain if we traded Lopez and Fry for Howard.

No matter what the Suns do, there is a group of people who just criticize.

I must admit that I wanted to start tanking two years ago, and I don't necessarily like every single move they've made this summer, but I think that they are doing the right thing in collecting assets- draft picks, and players on moderately good contracts that they can use to trade for some stars.

I wish people would give Babby a chance instead of throwing proverbial hissy fits after every single move, and then on every single thread.

Wouldn't that make for a pretty dull message board if everybody was happy with everything the Phoenix Suns did? Look, and most of you guys have been around for a long time know that I'm not usually one that complains about everything the Phoenix Suns do go to add. In fact I've been more on the sunshine gang tending to rationalize move the site really don't like initially. Hell, I looked at this free-agent market back in March and thought they should just try to put a few more pieces around Steve Nash and ride this out.

The thing I absolutely didn't want is what we've done this summer. We took an unathletic point guard who who isn't a good shooter in the draft. We then went out and signed a couple of mediocre free agents for good money. I like Dragic, but I have a lot of trouble imagining he's going to be worth more than his contract... that's my best case scenario. I think it's more likely that he underperforms that contract. I really don't like Michael Beasley. I was hoping that everybody we sign/drafted this summer would at least be a solid defender if not a good defender. So far we are 1/3.

Actually of the three signings they made it was Eric Gordon I was warming up to seasons of his injury history scare the hell out of me.

Joe