To QB Or Not To QB

[Duckjake]

Ok.

If you are fine with risking another year to find out, then more power to you.

I am not buying that coaching is going to help the lack of talent that is the offensive line. If the same list of players is on the line next year then get ready for another 5 win season.

I disagree. And the reason is the attention the new staff is paying to coaching the offensive line plus my disdain for Russ Grimm's coaching. Apparently somebody, Mike Bidwill, Steve Keim, or Bruce Arians thinks it was a coaching not a talent problem and that's why they have saturated the position with coaches. We'll see.

Of course you know I'm always ready for another 5-11 season.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Of course you know I'm always ready for another 5-11 season.

Hmm.... you have a point there.

Concerning the coaching ? You see, I see it from the other angle. I believe this staff is going to go through the players on the offensive line with a fine toothed comb.

Levi Brown, Lyle Sendlein and company are actually going to have to be NFL quality this year or they will be gone. Same goes for the rest.

To me it was so obvious that Grimm, and company had personal favorites that they would make excuses for.

If the guys we have suck, and I believe they do, then the current staff will see that and address it. If they don't, then second verse same as the first.

I don't know how you coach a player from being blown up and pushed back.

 

[Duckjake]

Hmm.... you have a point there.

Concerning the coaching ? You see, I see it from the other angle. I believe this staff is going to go through the players on the offensive line with a fine toothed comb.

Levi Brown, Lyle Sendlein and company are actually going to have to be NFL quality this year or they will be gone. Same goes for the rest.

To me it was so obvious that Grimm, and company had personal favorites that they would make excuses for.

If the guys we have suck, and I believe they do, then the current staff will see that and address it. If they don't, then second verse same as the first.

I don't know how you coach a player from being blown up and pushed back.

For one thing the Cards never seemed to "fire out". When run blocking they looked like they were pass blocking. To me it looked like they would stand up and then try to run block. Not a good idea if you don't want to be blown up and pushed back.

Plus they often seemed confused as to who was supposed to pick up which pass rusher. As you will remember it was often mentioned here that they seemed to have real trouble picking up stunts and delayed blitzes. And of course there was always the ubiquitous unblocked outside rusher.

I do agree that the new staff will subject the current oline to intense scrutiny but that many people assigned to the offensive line says to me they see the problem as coaching.

 

[Totally_Red]

I disagree. And the reason is the attention the new staff is paying to coaching the offensive line plus my disdain for Russ Grimm's coaching. Apparently somebody, Mike Bidwill, Steve Keim, or Bruce Arians thinks it was a coaching not a talent problem and that's why they have saturated the position with coaches. We'll see.

Of course you know I'm always ready for another 5-11 season.

It does take some talent though. SF has three first-rounders starting on their offensive line. The Cardinals have one on the roster who didn't play at all last season and probably is better suited for right tackle than left tackle.

 

[Duckjake]

It does take some talent though. SF has three first-rounders starting on their offensive line. The Cardinals have one on the roster who didn't play at all last season and probably is better suited for right tackle than left tackle.

On the other hand the Cardinals had one of the most prolific offenses in the NFL 2005, 2008, 2009 with only one first round draft pick on the oline. In 2003 the Cardinals had three former first round picks on the offensive line plus a 2nd and had the worst offense in the NFL.

Remember nothing normal applies to the Bidwill Cardinals.

 

[JeffGollin]

The problem was Grimm not the guys.

The problem was Grimm and the guys

(Trying to sort out out who was the worst culprit is well nigh impossible - Grimm's gone. It wil be up to BA, Moore and Goodwin to sift through the pile, figure out who's naughty or nice and replace mediocre guys with better guys).

 

[AzStevenCal]

I am not offended at all Steve. You are correct it is just an opinion. Tell Larry Fitz we plan to build and win in 3-4 years and see what kind of response you would get. Our very good players would be out of here as fast as they could. It appears from all the so called Gurus forecast we will take a OT in the draft. Most think Fisher. I certainly would take one of the top 2 QBs if they are available and I do not think that is beyond actually happening. With FA and the CAP building for the future does not seem to be a successful strategy anymore. I would look no further than 2 years down the road.

If the scouts and coaches believe there is a franchise QB hidden amongst these guys then I'm fine with them picking him. I'd rather grab the safer pick of Warmack or even a pass rusheer but there's no denying we need a QB. I'm not advocating putting it off because we have other needs, I'm just not in favor of making a big reach especially since we have so many other needs. I have no problem if they look at this year's class and next year's class and decide their franchise QB is still a year away. And it looks that way to me.

Steve

 

[WildBB]

If the scouts and coaches believe there is a franchise QB hidden amongst these guys then I'm fine with them picking him. I'd rather grab the safer pick of Warmack or even a pass rusheer but there's no denying we need a QB. I'm not advocating putting it off because we have other needs, I'm just not in favor of making a big reach especially since we have so many other needs. I have no problem if they look at this year's class and next year's class and decide their franchise QB is still a year away. And it looks that way to me.

Steve

There will be a decent prospect where we pick @38. Probably Tyler Wilson or possibly Glennon or Barkley even. All would be worth a shot at that point, imo. EJ Manuel or Bray could be viable in the 3rd Rd.

You never know what the next yr. brings. Maybe the whiners and Hags become injury decimated next yr. , who knows?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The problem was Grimm and the guys

(Trying to sort out out who was the worst culprit is well nigh impossible - Grimm's gone. It wil be up to BA, Moore and Goodwin to sift through the pile, figure out who's naughty or nice and replace mediocre guys with better guys).

Agreed.

I put my money on Colledge and Sendlien for guys that need to be replaced.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There will be a decent prospect where we pick @38. Probably Tyler Wilson or possibly Glennon or Barkley even. All would be worth a shot at that point, imo. EJ Manuel or Bray could be viable in the 3rd Rd.

You never know what the next yr. brings. Maybe the whiners and Hags become injury decimated next yr. , who knows?

And that's the problem with this year's QB crop, I don't think there's a true first rounder among them but it's a safe bet that at least a few of them will be gone when we pick in the second. I'm really hoping that KC or someone takes Geno so that we don't even get tempted with our number 7.

If Glennon or Wilson hangs around to the 2nd, I might take the gamble but 5 years from now I'm not sure that any of the top rated QB's in this draft will be starting in the NFL (other than perhaps Nassib). I think there's a better chance that Manuel or Scott or Dysert or any of the other half a dozen guys that get mentioned occasionally turn into an NFL QB than Smith, Barkley, Glennon or Wilson.

Steve

 

[Duckjake]

The problem was Grimm and the guys

(Trying to sort out out who was the worst culprit is well nigh impossible - Grimm's gone. It wil be up to BA, Moore and Goodwin to sift through the pile, figure out who's naughty or nice and replace mediocre guys with better guys).

I completely disagree. It was Grimm. Not the guys. Sorting out the culprit for those who have access to the coaches film through nfl game rewind is not impossible. Our offensive line situation isn't near as pasthetic as some like to claim now that Grimm is gone.

And of course you state the obvious that it will be up to the new coaches to sort through the roster and make changes they feel necessary. Just like the previous coaches sorted through the roster and made changes they thought were necessary. And the coaches before them sorted through the roster to find out who they thought were players and who weren't.

 

[juza76]

I dont know why people still pushing for glennon. he has completed just the 50% of the passes over 15 yards..geno smith 82% nassib 77% barckley 52%...BA want have a qb with great accuracy in deep ball..

 

[Duckjake]

I dont know why people still pushing for glennon. he has completed just the 50% of the passes over 15 yards..geno smith 82% nassib 77% barckley 52%...BA want have a qb with great accuracy in deep ball..

That's Brad Sorenson!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JeffGollin]

And of course you state the obvious that it will be up to the new coaches to sort through the roster and make changes they feel necessary....

Nice debating tactic, but far better to state the obvious than to disagree with it.

Coaching's important, but can only take you so far. If your players lack the strength to anchor or the feet to protect the edge (or the brains to block the right people) it might be time to get new players.

 

[DoTheDew]

Where does trading a starter, a 2nd round high pick, and paying $60 million for a QB who has really never been an everyday starter fit into the "worst things". This was worse than the Leinart deal. So far this has been one of the worst things we have ever done. It has contributed heavily to being in CAP Hell today.

Leinart being a bust is what caused us to resort to trading for Kolb. We were unwilling to draft another guy because we wanted immediate results and didn't want to fool around with developing a rookie just to risk him being a bust again.

You can be certain if we draft a guy in the 1st this year we won't next year regardless of how bad the guy this year is. Even if we did go the route of drafting one high every year until we find one, you're leaving the cupboard bare everywhere else on the team if you do that.

Simply put, if we reach for a QB at #7 and he doesn't end up being special, we're going to regret it because there will be all pro OL and probably all pro pass rushers sitting there and we'll be looking back for 2 decades at how we passed on that guy for someone who's never going to win a SB and we'll also be saying that QB is the reason we didn't go take one next year or the year after. I'd much rather take someone in the 2nd or even 3rd who's nearly as talented as the top QB in this draft this year.

 

[MWOOD92]

Leinart being a bust is what caused us to resort to trading for Kolb. We were unwilling to draft another guy because we wanted immediate results and didn't want to fool around with developing a rookie just to risk him being a bust again.

You can be certain if we draft a guy in the 1st this year we won't next year regardless of how bad the guy this year is. Even if we did go the route of drafting one high every year until we find one, you're leaving the cupboard bare everywhere else on the team if you do that.

Simply put, if we reach for a QB at #7 and he doesn't end up being special, we're going to regret it because there will be all pro OL and probably all pro pass rushers sitting there and we'll be looking back for 2 decades at how we passed on that guy for someone who's never going to win a SB and we'll also be saying that QB is the reason we didn't go take one next year or the year after. I'd much rather take someone in the 2nd or even 3rd who's nearly as talented as the top QB in this draft this year.

Agreed

 

[Jetstream Green]

That's Brad Sorenson!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This, but everyone is ignoring this guy. DJ has not only given reasons why the guy could do well, he even has given Cardinal history to back why he would do well for us