Todd Bowles imprint on the D

Darkside

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You mean by limiting the opponent's points as much as possible. Isn't this the definition of defense?

I like a defense that can score. Even if they give up plays I think it makes them more unpredictable and scary. I'd rather lead the league in points scored on D than points allowed.

Not a championship formula probably, but more exciting to watch IMO. Our defense was very good IMO but I'm not a fan of allowing a team to march to the 30 and then hold them to FG's. It works, but I'd rather see wow-plays.

I'd rather watch Dan Marino for 10 years than Trent Dilfer, even if Dilfer has a ring.
 

Duckjake

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I like a defense that can score. Even if they give up plays I think it makes them more unpredictable and scary. I'd rather lead the league in points scored on D than points allowed.

Not a championship formula probably, but more exciting to watch IMO. Our defense was very good IMO but I'm not a fan of allowing a team to march to the 30 and then hold them to FG's. It works, but I'd rather see wow-plays.

I'd rather watch Dan Marino for 10 years than Trent Dilfer, even if Dilfer has a ring.

I'd rather watch them win games on a PP21 punt return for a TD because they held the other team to FGs than watch them lose in spite of a PP21 TD return because they were giving up TDs.
 

52brandon

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Warner didn't just show up in 2007 with Whisenhunt. How easily fans ignore that he was on the team in 2005 and 2006 and the Cards finished 5-11 each year and was playing so poorly in 2006 that Kurt was benched for Leinart.

There was no reason not to think that Warner was done both when he came to Arizona and after the 2006 season. A 36 year old QB who had mediocre stats and a pitiful W-L record and a penchant for fumbling. I don't fault anyone for thinking he was.

As for Warner as a great QB. Was he really that great or was he just lucky? In St.Louis he had Holt and Bruce and in Arizona he had Boldin and Fitzgerald.
4 of the best WRs to ever play the game. Without great WRs in NY he did nothing. :D
the statement in bold is... well... a bold statement. Nothing against the other 3, but to be honest, Fitz is really the only one of the 4 I would say that could be considered one of the best WRs EVER. And that's nothing against the other 3, it's just there were, and there are, a LOT of very talented WRs. When it's all said and done, Megatron may very well end up in Rice's spot if he keeps up his inhuman pace

that aside, looking at just passer numbers here over the past decade. 2 QBs had above a 60% season comp%. Josh McCown had a 60.4% one season, Warner was over 64% in ALL FOUR of his years here. Nobody else was over 60%, of all of the other QBs to play here in the last 10 years, even the lucky ones that got to play with Fitz and Q. (On a side note: I think this season --because we have a good QB-- we'll really get a chance to see how lucky all of our QBs were to get to play with Fitz, Floyd and Roberts last year. A trio that I think will rival the Fitz/Q/Breaston trio)

so in short, no, I don't believe Kurt Warner was "just lucky" lol
 

52brandon

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I like a defense that can score. Even if they give up plays I think it makes them more unpredictable and scary. I'd rather lead the league in points scored on D than points allowed.

Not a championship formula probably, but more exciting to watch IMO. Our defense was very good IMO but I'm not a fan of allowing a team to march to the 30 and then hold them to FG's. It works, but I'd rather see wow-plays.

I'd rather watch Dan Marino for 10 years than Trent Dilfer, even if Dilfer has a ring.

probably a safe bet. I think CHI lead the league in D points scored, and it was still only about 4 per game. While we were about average around 2. While SEA lead in points allowed at 15.3, and we were about average with 21.9. The difference in average to best PPG is about 2, while the difference for PAPG is 6.6. D TDs are cool to see, but them preventing teams from scoring stands for a larger benefit overall in point contribution (going by what the range in the NFL is of both categories)
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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the statement in bold is... well... a bold statement. Nothing against the other 3, but to be honest, Fitz is really the only one of the 4 I would say that could be considered one of the best WRs EVER. And that's nothing against the other 3, it's just there were, and there are, a LOT of very talented WRs. When it's all said and done, Megatron may very well end up in Rice's spot if he keeps up his inhuman pace

that aside, looking at just passer numbers here over the past decade. 2 QBs had above a 60% season comp%. Josh McCown had a 60.4% one season, Warner was over 64% in ALL FOUR of his years here. Nobody else was over 60%, of all of the other QBs to play here in the last 10 years, even the lucky ones that got to play with Fitz and Q. (On a side note: I think this season --because we have a good QB-- we'll really get a chance to see how lucky all of our QBs were to get to play with Fitz, Floyd and Roberts last year. A trio that I think will rival the Fitz/Q/Breaston trio)

so in short, no, I don't believe Kurt Warner was "just lucky" lol
Isaac Bruce is pretty high up there. It really comes down to how big the list is that he is using. If its top 20 than it is quite possible all 4 of them make that list.
 

Duckjake

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Isaac Bruce is pretty high up there. It really comes down to how big the list is that he is using. If its top 20 than it is quite possible all 4 of them make that list.

No # really. Just saying all 4 were among the best to ever play. And Warner not only got one of them he got two at a time.

Also Warner wasn't just lucky the football gods had plans for him. He was pre ordained to come to Arizona. His record as a starter over the 3 years prior to being signed by the Cardinals?

You guessed it. 5-11! :eek:
 

52brandon

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Isaac Bruce is pretty high up there. It really comes down to how big the list is that he is using. If its top 20 than it is quite possible all 4 of them make that list.

you think so? In the 100+ years that the NFL has been around? Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Marvin Harrison, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Hines Ward, Art Monk, James Lofton, Randy Moss, T.O, Steve Largent, Herman Moore, Sterling Sharpe, Andre Reed, Fred Biletnikoff, Don Hutson, there's just so many great receivers over the history of the game...
 

Duckjake

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you think so? In the 100+ years that the NFL has been around? Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Marvin Harrison, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Hines Ward, Art Monk, James Lofton, Randy Moss, T.O, Steve Largent, Herman Moore, Sterling Sharpe, Andre Reed, Fred Biletnikoff, Don Hutson, there's just so many great receivers over the history of the game...

And Isaac Bruce is one of them. 4th all time in receiving yards. Holt is 11th.

Boldin and Fitz are both top 40. I talked to Casey Kasum and he confirmed that all four of those guys are among the best WRs to ever play the game.
 

dreamcastrocks

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And Isaac Bruce is one of them. 4th all time in receiving yards. Holt is 11th.

Boldin and Fitz are both top 40. I talked to Casey Kasum and he confirmed that all four of those guys are among the best WRs to ever play the game.

4/5
 

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You realize that Warner, at the time, was much less regarded than Palmer is today. Give Whiz some credit. He took the team to the SB. He had the Cards in 1st place with Kevin Kolb at the helm. I kow it's still, for some unknown reason, fashionable to bash the guy but he was a very good coach. It's starting to look more and more like he may been hamstrung by the ineptness that is Rod Graves.

First. let me say that CKW was not enamored with Warner, and attempted to start Leinart ahead of him, then platooned the two of them. Whiz did not build that team, he played the players that Green left for him. They were very good. He did not recognize the worth of many of those players. Beginning with Boldin he began to let them go, replacing each in turn with over the hill Steelers. He NEVER realized the worth of youth, and never changed his scheme once Warner left. He had two successful years here out of six. His teams became successively poorer as his players replaced Green's on the roster. We, as fans tasted success for the first time in eons. It was great, but most of us gave CKW too much credit where he actually benefited from someone else's roster. I do not consider him a very good coach. I perceive him as an intelligent, but extremely stubborn coach who was not prone to listen to, or to take advice from, others on his staff. He had the ability to be a very good coach, but chose not to take advantage of his collective staff's knowledge, or his player's abilities. Instead he chose to continue to plug and play, ignoring their strengths and playing to their weaknesses, stubbornly sticking to his chosen scheme.
 
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52brandon

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And Isaac Bruce is one of them. 4th all time in receiving yards. Holt is 11th.

Boldin and Fitz are both top 40. I talked to Casey Kasum and he confirmed that all four of those guys are among the best WRs to ever play the game.

Yeah, as I was thinking about it, I was thinking my initial statement about Fitz being the only one on there was wrong and that it was more deserving of Bruce to be the only one on there. For now. Either way, the oposite of your point could also be argued. But the fact is, it's a team sport, without good QB play, WRs wouldn't look so good and without good WR play, QBs wouldn't look so good. But I stand by my original point that Warner wasn't "just lucky". Luck played a part, but it does in pretty much everything
 

52brandon

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First. let me say that CKW was not enamored with Warner, and attempted to start Leinart ahead of him, then platooned the two of them. Whiz did not build that team, he played the players that Green left for him. They were very good. He did not recognize the worth of many of those players. Beginning with Boldin he began to let them go, replacing each in turn with over the hill Steelers. He NEVER realized the worth of youth, and never changed his scheme once Warner left. He had two successful years here out of six. His teams became successively poorer as his players replaced Green's on the roster. We, as fans tasted success for the first time in eons. It was great, but most of us gave CKW too much credit where he actually benefited from someone else's roster. I do not consider him a very good coach. I perceive him as an intelligent, but extremely stubborn coach who was not prone to listen to, or to take advice from, others on his staff. He had the ability to be a very good coach, but chose not to take advantage of his collective staff's knowledge, or his player's abilities. Instead he chose to continue to plug and play, ignoring their strengths and playing to their weaknesses, stubbornly sticking to his chosen scheme.
very true. Whether it was Whiz, Graves, or a group effort. They sure took a great squad and then just pissed em off and threw em away. It really took until about an year ago or so that they were even proactive with the players they already had. Actually hanging onto CC and extending DWash early. It was so out of character for this FO. And the Addition of Horton worked out very well. But all the misses and failures put us in a rough spot that should take quite a bit of time to overcome. This past offseason has gone remarkably well for player acquisitions. But still doesn't put us in contention. I only hope Keim and Arians can continue to build as positively as they just did. If so, we can be a force in a couple years. Right now, we have a team that shouldn't require paper bags to watch though, and it's a feat that I don't believe our previous regime could have accomplished in the same amount of time
 

Duckjake

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Yeah, as I was thinking about it, I was thinking my initial statement about Fitz being the only one on there was wrong and that it was more deserving of Bruce to be the only one on there. For now. Either way, the oposite of your point could also be argued. But the fact is, it's a team sport, without good QB play, WRs wouldn't look so good and without good WR play, QBs wouldn't look so good. But I stand by my original point that Warner wasn't "just lucky". Luck played a part, but it does in pretty much everything

Of course my paragraph about Warner being lucky was a joke. As evidenced by the big grin placed at the end of it. But it was fun watching you debate it. :)

Who really got lucky was Arizona. What a great move by them. Yet they get little credit for it. During Green's tenure they brought in some free agents who at the time weren't really that highly regarded yet turned out to be very good players for the Cards. Warner, Berry, James and Okeafor. Let's hope some of the guys they've brought in this year turn out as well as those 4 did for us.
 

52brandon

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Of course my paragraph about Warner being lucky was a joke. As evidenced by the big grin placed at the end of it. But it was fun watching you debate it. :)

Who really got lucky was Arizona. What a great move by them. Yet they get little credit for it. During Green's tenure they brought in some free agents who at the time weren't really that highly regarded yet turned out to be very good players for the Cards. Warner, Berry, James and Okeafor. Let's hope some of the guys they've brought in this year turn out as well as those 4 did for us.
lol, still wouldn't be the most ridiculous argument made here. So I figured I'd take it seriously. And you're very right. I would have liked to keep Green around in a personnel capacity. But I don't think he fit the HC job. Whiz was the opposite, he was awful with personnel decisions. I hope Arians can do it all. I definitely like the fact that he brought on a larger coaching staff. I think it will have a noticeable positive effect on our players. Hopefully a big one. Especially on the O line. If they can improve the O line, even to just "respectable", I think the team as a whole will show great improvement. Good O line play will translate to better QB and RB play, which will translate to better clock and field management as well as more points. In doing that, it will allow our D to rest more, which will result in harder play when they're on the field. The butterfly effect lol. I really hope to see this come to fruition
 

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Good News on Bowles' D!

According to FootballOutsiders, the last two years PHilly has lead the NFL in broken tackles allowed, and three Eagle defensive backs (Bowles' area of responsibility last year in Philly) were among the league leaders in broken tackles allowed.

So, that's encouraging. :bang:
 

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According to FootballOutsiders, the last two years PHilly has lead the NFL in broken tackles allowed, and three Eagle defensive backs (Bowles' area of responsibility last year in Philly) were among the league leaders in broken tackles allowed.

So, that's encouraging. :bang:

So. he couldn't get DRC to tackle.... who could?
 

kerouac9

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So. he couldn't get DRC to tackle.... who could?

Function of DRC's increased playing time. What excuse for Nmamdi and Nate Allen?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/broken-tackles-2012-defense

Yes, those are three of the four starting Philadelphia defensive backs on our list of the highest broken tackle rates. As we'll note in a few paragraphs, the Eagles led the league in broken tackles for the second straight season. I've slammed Cary Williams as an overrated player because you can complete curl patterns in front of him all day long, but perhaps he was the right addition for the Eagles.
 

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