Trade down?

Cbus cardsfan

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When they announced a trade and where we dropped to, I just kept muttering 'show the terms, show the terms'...my friends laughed aloud as I hit the floor on my knees, nearly in tears, shouting 'What!? No! No! Oh God, no!'

That's awful nice compared to what i was yelling and it got worse when Calvin Pace and Bryant Johnson were announced. My Bengals buddy still reminds me of that day every now and then :mad: :bang: :barf: :pullhair:
 

Zeno

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That's awful nice compared to what i was yelling and it got worse when Calvin Pace and Bryant Johnson were announced. My Bengals buddy still reminds me of that day every now and then :mad: :bang: :barf: :pullhair:

I think that was the first draft I watched with my wife and after the string of expletives I was spewing, very likely the last.

I could do without a repeat of that. I just remember looking over my draft stuff saying Calvin WHO?
 

kerouac9

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I think that was the first draft I watched with my wife and after the string of expletives I was spewing, very likely the last.

I could do without a repeat of that. I just remember looking over my draft stuff saying Calvin WHO?

ESPN had to look around for the highlight package on him because I don't think it was ready because they weren't expecting to use it until the end of that first day.
 

Skkorpion

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George Boone had no say in that draft at all. He wasn't even in the building. I was there both days all day and talked to everybody. This is just more K9 misinformation that so many of you never question because you want to believe it.
 

ajcardfan

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George Boone had no say in that draft at all. He wasn't even in the building. I was there both days all day and talked to everybody. This is just more K9 misinformation that so many of you never question because you want to believe it.

He did say that Jude LaCava reported it today. But, that's the first I've heard of it. What the hell does Boone do for the Cards anyhow?
 

daytripper

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IMHO I would rather see see us trade out of the first round this year all together and recieve several years of second round picks in return.
Too much risk vs return in the first round and too many square pegs in round holes in this years top 5 for us.
 

Stout

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George Boone had no say in that draft at all. He wasn't even in the building. I was there both days all day and talked to everybody. This is just more K9 misinformation that so many of you never question because you want to believe it.

You were there? Wow. Any idea who exactly is responsible for that debacle? Was it a shared debacle?
 

kerouac9

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George Boone had no say in that draft at all. He wasn't even in the building. I was there both days all day and talked to everybody. This is just more K9 misinformation that so many of you never question because you want to believe it.

I swear to you, Skkorp, I did not make this up. This is what Jude LaCava said: Dave McGinnis wanted to draft Terrell Suggs, but people above him didn't want to pay for the #6 pick.

On a different subject in the same discussion, LaCava said that Boone had Suggs rated as a third-round pick.

Now, nidan assures us that trading down and passing on Suggs wasn't Graves choice. LaCava says that it wasn't Mac's decision. So either ownership is/was meddling more than many here are prepared to admit. These are mutually exclusive options:

1. Rod Graves is/was a puppet for ownership who had no say over personnel when he was appointed VP football operations.
2. Rod Graves orchestrated the trade down and lied to some on this board who believe that Rod Graves always tells the truth.
3. Rod Graves allowed Dave McGinnis to orchestrate the trade down because he wanted to give McGinnis one last chance to save his job, but that didn't work out and McGinnis then like to Jude LaCava about what happened on draft day.
 

Cheesebeef

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I still thank God to this day that I was already on mushrooms and x, sitting in the Polo Fields taking in great music during the 2003 debacle. Ouchie called me and I just had to laugh.

Now with Graves back in full control again, I happily look forward to once again missing the draft and likely being in the Polo Fields, again, floating on mushrooms and x when Ouchie calls me and tells me we traded back and took Happenstack McFlapperpants and Gene Okerlund while giving up our 2nd round pick!

folks - a word to the wise, just don't watch the draft until Rod Graves is gone - it's much easier on the old noggin!
 

Stout

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I still thank God to this day that I was already on mushrooms and x, sitting in the Polo Fields taking in great music during the 2003 debacle. Ouchie called me and I just had to laugh.

Now with Graves back in full control again, I happily look forward to once again missing the draft and likely being in the Polo Fields, again, floating on mushrooms and x when Ouchie calls me and tells me we traded back and took Happenstack McFlapperpants and Gene Okerlund while giving up our 2nd round pick!

folks - a word to the wise, just don't watch the draft until Rod Graves is gone - it's much easier on the old noggin!

Hey, I heard Mean Gene is gonna make for a helluva MLB!!!
 

BACH

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According to Jude LaCava today, Dave McGinnis wanted to draft Suggs (despite veiled intimations from some on this board), and was told no. He said that George Boone had Suggs rated no better than the third round.

Good times.

He wasn't rated a 3rd rounder on their overall board. I'm pretty sure Graves said after the draft, that they saw Suggs a 3-4 OLB and only rated him #15 overall in the draft. He also said that they rated Boldin #16.
 

kerouac9

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He wasn't rated a 3rd rounder on their overall board. I'm pretty sure Graves said after the draft, that they saw Suggs a 3-4 OLB and only rated him #15 overall in the draft. He also said that they rated Boldin #16.

1) How could you possibly know this?

2) If they really had Boldin rated 16, what did they have Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace? Where did they have Jerome McDougle? Where did they have Jonathon Sullivan, who Graves said they would have taken had they been forced to exercise the pick?

3) Where did they have Bethel Johnson, who the Cards were reportedly in love with (brought him to Arizona for a second interview) and the Pats traded ahead of to take? Johnson is the reason why we don't bring players in for second interviews anymore.

4) I honestly think you're just making this up. If Graves actually had Boldin rated this high, he wouldn't have had to be begged by a scout to take him late in the second. This is the worst kind of revisionist history.
 

JeffGollin

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Both Skkorp and K9 could be right about Boone if it turned out that (a) Boone wasn't in the building and (b) La Cava made a misstatement about Boone'[s involvement (i.e. La Cava may have said it, but that doesn't mean it was necessarily accurate).

That said - I consider Boone to be the single biggest drag on this franchise's struggle to improve its overall talent level over the years*. This may be unduly unfair (and some will be quick to point out a few good picks that were exceptions to the overall pattern) but let's just say that Mr. Boone is an "unlucky charm" for the Cardinal organization.

With regard to trading down: This year is different from the Suggs Year. Back then, Rod Graves traded out of the plateau of elite players and into "Tommy Knight Country" to draft BJ and Calvin.

This year, it appears that there is a dropoff in blue chip talent after you get past Johnson, Russell, Peterson and Thomas followed by a sizable 10 -15 player talent-plateau of very good prospects who are significantly more talented than Johnson, Pace, Knight etc.

Ergo, we could afford to trade down 5 - 10 notches (or even farther) and still wind up with a very good player whereas we couldn't (and didn't) accomplish this with the Suggs debacle. (Let's also not forget that our target wasn't Pace - it was McDougle. But Rod made an "assumption" when he traded down that McDougle would still be there. He assumed wrong).

* The Boone discussion reminds me of a cyber-reunion I had a several years ago with the former sports editor of the daily Trentonian, who had resurfaced as a feature editor at the Sporting News. I asked him what the problem was with the Cardinals. His reply: "Too many Boone players. As soon as you can replace them with better talent, the Cardinals will do better."
 
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lobo

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I fully agree Boone was the anchor on this ship for the years he was with us.

I submit he had the negatives of someone doing something nasty. There is no other logical reason for his presence from my perch.
 

john h

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I heard some talk this morning on the radio about the Cardinals trading down.
Does anyone see this as a good thing? Or will we see another disaster like passing on Suggs.

Wasnt it Suggs AND HEAP?

Whiz was just quoted this week as saying he saw no reason to trade down. We would find a very good player where we are.
 

Skkorpion

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I swear to you, Skkorp, I did not make this up. This is what Jude LaCava said: Dave McGinnis wanted to draft Terrell Suggs, but people above him didn't want to pay for the #6 pick.

On a different subject in the same discussion, LaCava said that Boone had Suggs rated as a third-round pick.

Now, nidan assures us that trading down and passing on Suggs wasn't Graves choice. LaCava says that it wasn't Mac's decision. So either ownership is/was meddling more than many here are prepared to admit. These are mutually exclusive options:

1. Rod Graves is/was a puppet for ownership who had no say over personnel when he was appointed VP football operations.
2. Rod Graves orchestrated the trade down and lied to some on this board who believe that Rod Graves always tells the truth.
3. Rod Graves allowed Dave McGinnis to orchestrate the trade down because he wanted to give McGinnis one last chance to save his job, but that didn't work out and McGinnis then like to Jude LaCava about what happened on draft day.

K9, other than George Boone having any influence on that draft, I take no issue with anything else you said or speculated. Boone might indeed have thought Suggs was a 3rd round talent but nobody in the Cards FO was paying any attention to Boone.

I once posted what we were pretty sure really happened and nidan rightfully zapped it before anybody picked up on it. Know this: I think I know but not with 100% certainty, so Ian was right to squash it.
 

Stout

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K9, other than George Boone having any influence on that draft, I take no issue with anything else you said or speculated. Boone might indeed have thought Suggs was a 3rd round talent but nobody in the Cards FO was paying any attention to Boone.

I once posted what we were pretty sure really happened and nidan rightfully zapped it before anybody picked up on it. Know this: I think I know but not with 100% certainty, so Ian was right to squash it.

Graves wanted that other DE, and he wanted another 1st rounder, and he was willing to bend over to get it done. That's what I think happened.
 
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