Trade Marion for...?

[Sunsman44]

Butler is no taller than 6'6.

If you are arguing for the sake of sheer entertainment to prove me wrong - that is one thing. Otherwise, you are wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caron_Butler
Wikipedia says 6 foot 7

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1705
ESPN says 6 foot 7

http://www.hoopshype.com/players/caron_butler.htm
HoopsHype says 6 foot 7

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3608/
SI says 6 foot 7

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleca01.html
Basketball Reference says 6 foot 7

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleca01.html
Sportsline says 6 foot 7

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/caron_butler/
NBA says 6 foot 7

I have 8 other sources including RealGM and 82Games to show as well but I think my current list does justice.

Unless you are Butler's friend and he in fact told you all these sources are incorrect, I will stand by my argument that Butler is 6 foot 7.

 

[F-Dog]

How is Butler the shortest small forward in the league? He is the typical size of every small forward: 6-7, 230lbs, long arms.

And how is he less versatile than James Jones? Jones could only spot-up shoot - at best - with a little defense. Butler plays both small and shooting, has a killer jumper, a fantastic inside game, and very very athletic. He is not as stiff as James Jones and it is amazing that you say James Jones is probably more versatile. And did I mention Butler averages a whole lotta steals and rebounds?

Suns' Alando Tucker, meanwhile, may be the winner of the shortest small forward award.

Butler is 6'5" and change in socks, almost exactly the same height as Alando Tucker.

By versatility, I mean defense, as the obvious problem with acquiring Butler is that the Suns are replacing their starting PF with a 'pure' SF, which crowds Barbosa and Grant Hill into the background while opening up a huge hole at PF.

(The less obvious problem is that Butler can't guard a lot of SGs either, and he definitely can't guard PGs, so if the Suns start Butler, Steve Nash has to eat a bunch of mismatches he was previously able to avoid.)

 

[F-Dog]

http://http://www.nbadraft.net/2002predraftmeasurements.htm

Caron Butler is 6'5 1/4" without shoes.

 

[panfolk]

How about trying to pull Darius Miles and LaMarcus Aldridge from Portland (throw in that stiff LaFrentz) for Marion and Banks...? I believe this makes us better, and gives Portland a legit Star that holds down the fort until Oden gets better. This year, Shawn and Roy could do well with the cast of Frye, Blake, etc...

I just don't trust Odom's health.

Darius Miles is pure poison no matter what his talent. I'd be up for Aldridge, Rodriguez, and LaFrentz. I have a great deal of faith regarding the first two in the Suns' system plus LaFrentz would be serviceable and expiring. I'd also like to snag the rights to Koponen but that's just speculation.

Williams is no better than Skinner, and D'Antoni would never start Thomas over Diaw. I think Thomas is a lost cause as far as the Suns are concerned. He worked out well, but D'Antoni hates him.

Is it a personal thing or he didn't like Thomas' game?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Caron Butler is one of the shortest SFs in the league, and is probably less versatile than James Jones.

sorry, but this is flat out, the most ill-informed opinion I think I've ever seen on this board... and that's saying A LOT.

 

[SunsTzu]

http://http://www.nbadraft.net/2002predraftmeasurements.htm

Caron Butler is 6'5 1/4" without shoes.

He playing in a barefoot league?

A trade involving Marion and Butler can be done. Butler is a superior player than Jamison and would have greater value, the Suns would just need a 3rd team involved.

 

[F-Dog]

He playing in a barefoot league?

With shoes, he's 6'6". Same as Alando Tucker IIRC.

 

[F-Dog]

sorry, but this is flat out, the most ill-informed opinion I think I've ever seen on this board... and that's saying A LOT.

I take it you don't check your own work?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I take it you don't check your own work?

to be fair, my Steve Nash take when we signed him was admittedly pretty horrific, so touche... still, your theory is just as ******** IMO (and probably the rest of the basketball world).

 

[F-Dog]

to be fair, my Steve Nash take when we signed him was admittedly pretty horrific, so touche... still, your theory is just as ******** IMO (and probably the rest of the basketball world).

So not only do you think Butler can guard PFs, but anybody who thinks otherwise is ********?

I'm asking for clarity here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So not only do you think Butler can guard PFs, but anybody who thinks otherwise is ********?

huh? where in the hell did you get that? You talked about Butler being less verstaile than a stiff shooter who couldn't shoot, can't take it to the hole and can't guard PF. I said that was ridiculous (as would anyone else in their right mind) The fact that you somehow extrapolated that into me saying "Butler can guard PFs" not only makes me believes that your initial prognosis was ********, but now I kinda wonder the same thing about your overall intelligence.

 

[hsandhu]

Based on what I've been reading on this board the past couple days I'm getting the impression odom is in bad shape physically. I haven't kept up with his injuries since our series with them, I just remember what he was like prior to the knee injury of december last year.

At that time the lakers were playing really good basketball, probably were even a top 5 team in the league. He looked like he could be an all-star. This combined with his absolute domination of us in the playoffs that year, I would have traded him for marion straight-up and not even thought twice about it.

Is he in bad enough shape that he can't get back to that point, or are people more nervous that there's a chance he can't get back?

Remember he is also a year and half younger than shawn, who has a massive amount of minutes on his body.

 

[SunsTzu]

With shoes, he's 6'6". Same as Alando Tucker IIRC.

6'6 1/2 according to draftexpress, same was Josh Howard. They didn't have any of the '07 measurements up but nbadraft.net listed Tucker at 6'5(how did Tucker even get in this conversation he hasn't proven anything).

Btw I think cheese took exception when you said Butler has less versatility than James Jones(which I agree with him on since Butler is one of the better 2 way players in the league and is a borderline all-star), not that Butler could play the 4.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Based on what I've been reading on this board the past couple days I'm getting the impression odom is in bad shape physically. I haven't kept up with his injuries since our series with them, I just remember what he was like prior to the knee injury of december last year.

At that time the lakers were playing really good basketball, probably were even a top 5 team in the league. He looked like he could be an all-star. This combined with his absolute domination of us in the playoffs that year, I would have traded him for marion straight-up and not even thought twice about it.

Is he in bad enough shape that he can't get back to that point, or are people more nervous that there's a chance he can't get back?

Remember he is also a year and half younger than shawn, who has a massive amount of minutes on his body.

he's just always missing time h - ALWAYS. And this was his second shoulder surgery on that side... and apparently his rehab isn't on schedule.

 

[F-Dog]

huh? where in the hell did you get that? You talked about Butler being less verstaile than a stiff shooter who couldn't shoot, can't take it to the hole and can't guard PF. I said that was ridiculous (as would anyone else in their right mind) The fact that you somehow extrapolated that into me saying "Butler can guard PFs" not only makes me believes that your initial prognosis was ********, but now I kinda wonder the same thing about your overall intelligence.

So if you want Butler to replace Steve Nash at PG, and I say he's less versatile than Grant Hill, you're going to jump on me?

Since we would be getting Butler to play PF, the question is whether he's got the versatility to play PF, not whether he can drive to the basket or create his own shot from mid-range. And where Butler is concerned, he's as pure a SF as they come--yes, even more than James Jones.

 

[F-Dog]

6'6 1/2 according to draftexpress, same was Josh Howard. They didn't have any of the '07 measurements up but nbadraft.net listed Tucker at 6'5(how did Tucker even get in this conversation he hasn't proven anything).

IIRC Tucker turned out to be a bit taller than that (not much, though). I'll look for the stats later...my internet connection is unaccountably slow tonight.

Btw I think cheese took exception when you said Butler has less versatility than James Jones(which I agree with him on since Butler is one of the better 2 way players in the league and is a borderline all-star), not that Butler could play the 4.

Yes, we're talking about different kinds of versatility here, and Cheese didn't bother to think it through before shooting his mouth off.

 

[hsandhu]

he's just always missing time h - ALWAYS. And this was his second shoulder surgery on that side... and apparently his rehab isn't on schedule.

If he was guaranteed health would you feel a lot better about it? I mean if healthy, San Antonio has zero, and I mean zero answer for him.

He'll murder horry/bowen/finley in the post. And draw duncan/elson/oberto away from the basket and go right around them. The paint would be open for amare to just absolutely dominate.

And he wouldn't even be the number one option of our offense! San Antonio would be forced to play the way we want them to (just how dallas beat them with dirk).

 

[panfolk]

If he was guaranteed health would you feel a lot better about it? I mean if healthy, San Antonio has zero, and I mean zero answer for him.

He'll murder horry/bowen/finley in the post. And draw duncan/elson/oberto away from the basket and go right around them. The paint would be open for amare to just absolutely dominate.

And he wouldn't even be the number one option of our offense! San Antonio would be forced to play the way we want them to (just how dallas beat them with dirk).

That's a pretty stunning thought. I've always enjoyed both Odom and Kirilenko's games and the thought of adding one of them in favor of Marion would redeem all the sold draft picks and questionable signings of the Sarver era. Or at least the trade would go a long ways to do so.

 

[NDNACE]

Maybe the Suns could trade Marion to his hometown Chicago Bulls and Chicago would send us Brian Urlacher straight up.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Who else thinks that Marion for Tyson Chandler would work? Chandler is a rebounding and shot blocking machine, and could help against guys like Duncan.

 

[overseascardfan]

At first I didn't like the MEM trade but if we were to get Swift, Miller, Warwick, & Stoudamire I would do it in a heartbeat.

IMO giving up Marion needs to net us a back up C, starting PF (to replace Marion), and a back up PG.

Warwick & Swift fit the frontcourt needs w/ Miller being a bonus starting SF. Damon Stoudamire is a nice stop gap until we get PG Derrick Rose w/ our #1 pick next year.

BTW, add Banks as part of the trade.

With Pau & Darko, Warwick becomes expendable with Marion replacing him, Miller is replaced by Rudy Gay, and Banks replaces Stoudamire.

 

[overseascardfan]

Who else thinks that Marion for Tyson Chandler would work? Chandler is a rebounding and shot blocking machine, and could help against guys like Duncan.

NO has no one to replace Chandler at C, there is no way NO does this but it would be nice.

How about Chandler & Curry making huge strides in living up to their potential after being lotto picks in '01.