Trade

[sinsay]

Do you think greenbay would trade the 5th pick for cards ten,BJ and a 4th rounder since they are going to trade javon walker.

 

[BACH]

Do you think greenbay would trade the 5th pick for cards ten,BJ and a 4th rounder since they are going to trade javon walker.

That would give Bj an equal value as a low 2nd rounder, which I think is about the right value given this draft's very weak WR class.

It's possible, but it would probably cost more to convince the Packers to trade away from Davis and Hawk.

If Ferguson is sitting there at #5 I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

[Camshaft]

possible

GB needs to improve the OL or they'll run out of RBs like last year. Besides Walker, Driver also wants a new contract. The 4th round selection is icing. GB should be able to get help in both OL and LB with the acquired selections. The plus side is that BJ is a better/more durable receiver than Ferguson or Chapman.

Overall, this is a high price to pay for the fifth spot. IMO it should only be done for an impact player that would guarantee our going to the playoffs this year. Vernon Davis is the only one that fits the bill. Physically, he's NFL ready . He's a faster David Boston with way less attitude. He's a TE, H-back, or WR.

 

[BACH]

GB needs to improve the OL or they'll run out of RBs like last year. Besides Walker, Driver also wants a new contract. The 4th round selection is icing. GB should be able to get help in both OL and LB with the acquired selections. The plus side is that BJ is a better/more durable receiver than Ferguson or Chapman.

Overall, this is a high price to pay for the fifth spot. IMO it should only be done for an impact player that would guarantee our going to the playoffs this year. Vernon Davis is the only one that fits the bill. Physically, he's NFL ready . He's a faster David Boston with way less attitude. He's a TE, H-back, or WR.

But does that really improve the team that much?

Is Fitz, Boldin, Davis and McCoy that much better than Fitz, Boldin, BJ and Bergen that you would give up the chance for Huff, Justice etc. at #10 for it?

 

[Krangodnzr]

BJ isn't worth that. Eric Moulds was traded for less.

 

[BACH]

BJ isn't worth that. Eric Moulds was traded for less.

You can argue that Bj isn't worth a late 2nd rounder, but you cannot in any way compare him to Moulds.

BJ had 40 receptions for 432 yards in 4 starts and is fourth year.

Moulds had 80 receptions for 816 yards in 14 starts and is in his 12th year.

I would argue that BJ would have surpassed Moulds' number if he had started 14 games, but that really is besides the point.

The whole issue when talking trade value is that BJ is entering his prime while Moulds' career only is going to go down hill from now.

 

[Camshaft]

But does that really improve the team that much?

Is Fitz, Boldin, Davis and McCoy that much better than Fitz, Boldin, BJ and Bergen that you would give up the chance for Huff, Justice etc. at #10 for it?

It's Fitz, Boldin, Davis, McCoy and James or Fitz, Boldin, Davis, Bergen and James. The line-ups should be able to score at will. Warner will find somebody open. Davis has 4.38 speed. That's faster than BJ, Fitz or Boldin and he weighs 254 lbs. Think of the YAC. Fitz and Boldin are elite. Johnson has not shown to be elite. If Davis goes to SF, he'll be elite and we will play him twice per year.

Our defense is based on speed (attacking). Huff should improve the defense but an ultra potent offense should improve the defense more (opponents will pass more, which plays into the hands of a speedy defense).

The premise is the player that assures AZ going to the playoffs this year, not eventually. TEs of Davis size, speed and ability are not in every draft. He's not your typical best TE of the draft; he's more of the best TE of the decade happening. He can play TE, H-back, or WR.

Anyway, we are picking Cutler at the 10th spot. Mind you, I'm really rotten on predicting the draft.

OT point: Our 2006 KR plays for a team in Germany now.

 

[BACH]

It's Fitz, Boldin, Davis, McCoy and James or Fitz, Boldin, Davis, Bergen and James. The line-ups should be able to score at will. Warner will find somebody open. Davis has 4.38 speed. That's faster than BJ, Fitz or Boldin and he weighs 254 lbs. Think of the YAC. Fitz and Boldin are elite. Johnson has not shown to be elite. If Davis goes to SF, he'll be elite and we will play him twice per year.

Our defense is based on speed (attacking). Huff should improve the defense but an ultra potent offense should improve the defense more (opponents will pass more, which plays into the hands of a speedy defense).

The premise is the player that assures AZ going to the playoffs this year, not eventually. TEs of Davis size, speed and ability are not in every draft. He's not your typical best TE of the draft; he's more of the best TE of the decade happening. He can play TE, H-back, or WR.

Anyway, we are picking Cutler at the 10th spot. Mind you, I'm really rotten on predicting the draft.

OT point: Our 2006 KR plays for a team in Germany now.

I think you missed my point...

My point was that if you're trading up to #5, then you give up the chance to draft Huff/Cutler/Justice at #10 and BJ. Davis would be an improvement (long-term) over BJ, but is that improvement big enough to make up for giving up Huff/Cutler/Justice.

BTW.. I totally agree on Robinson

 

[Rolling Thunder]

You can argue that Bj isn't worth a late 2nd rounder, but you cannot in any way compare him to Moulds.

Then compare him to Walker, Lelie, Stallworth, and Rogers since all 4 are on the market. Johnson's stats don't come close to the first 3 listed.

 

[vinnymac]

i don't know why there so much love for bj. he hasn't done anything to warrant a 2nd round pick. at the most a 5th. culpepper was traded to dolphins for a 2nd round pick. bj is in the same class as culpepper. i don't think so. if the cardinals put bj on the market right now then they are admitting that he is a bust which lessen his value. you never know which team is desperate enough to get a wr. the saints might be willing to give a 5th for bj. with horn injuried every season and wanting to get rid of stallworth, i believe that johnson would be a welcome addition. i don't think the packers are desperate for a wr. i think they comptable with the wide outs that they have. the packers do not have to trade walker if they don't want to. if hte packers are not going to get what they want for walker than i don't think they are going to trade him.

after saturday, things will start to unfold and everybody will be in for a surprise on how things will turn out. i do expect some surprises saturday.

 

[JeffGollin]

i don't know why there so much love for bj.
It doesn't matter if there is or isn't a lot of love for BJ among us fans.

It's how various teams' front offices view him - and all it takes is one team in the right spot who loves him.

Bottom line: We don't know how other teams view BJ. Maybe we stole him from some other club who scouted him and loved him before the draft.

Or not.

 

[Camshaft]

The answer is yes to all three situation. Davis is an immediate improvement over BJ. BJ is also gone in two years. Huff (besides reasons given previously) is not a DB of the decade prospect and Justice is not an OT of the decade prospect (Ferguson may be). The surety of Davis being the TE of the decade is way higher than the surety of Cutler being the next Brett Favre. If it could be deemed that Cutler is Favre's clone, then the answer to the BJ- Cutler scenario is no.

 

[john h]

i don't know why there so much love for bj.
It doesn't matter if there is or isn't a lot of love for BJ among us fans.

It's how various teams' front offices view him - and all it takes is one team in the right spot who loves him.

Bottom line: We don't know how other teams view BJ. Maybe we stole him from some other club who scouted him and loved him before the draft.

Or not.

My view after watching him is he is a very good player and could start on many teams. He is surely our best receiver behind Fitz and Boldin and I would keep the guy unless I got value for him. Value is no 5th round pick. BJ can start today for some teams and it would be a big stretch to think we could draft someone as good as him in the 5th round.

 

[AntSports Steve]

I think the idea of trading BJ to Greenbay has merit. It's not really "what BJ is worth". Since the draft is so close, it's what alternitives does GB have? There are no quality FA WRs left. The draft is very thin on start quality WRs this year. Greenbay may conclude that TE Davis and the WRs they have is better than a trade down and get BJ option.

Although, GB has a ton of needs this year. At #10, they could use a Huff, Justice, one of the 2 DTs, or even a trade again to a team that wants Culter.

If Arizona came with that offer, they would definetly consider it.

 

[Savage58]

It's Fitz, Boldin, Davis, McCoy and James or Fitz, Boldin, Davis, Bergen and James. The line-ups should be able to score at will. Warner will find somebody open. Davis has 4.38 speed. That's faster than BJ, Fitz or Boldin and he weighs 254 lbs. Think of the YAC. Fitz and Boldin are elite. Johnson has not shown to be elite. If Davis goes to SF, he'll be elite and we will play him twice per year.

Our defense is based on speed (attacking). Huff should improve the defense but an ultra potent offense should improve the defense more (opponents will pass more, which plays into the hands of a speedy defense).

The premise is the player that assures AZ going to the playoffs this year, not eventually. TEs of Davis size, speed and ability are not in every draft. He's not your typical best TE of the draft; he's more of the best TE of the decade happening. He can play TE, H-back, or WR.

Anyway, we are picking Cutler at the 10th spot. Mind you, I'm really rotten on predicting the draft.

OT point: Our 2006 KR plays for a team in Germany now.

Wow that's some pitch for a workout warrior who only had 51 catches for 871 yards last year w/ 6 TDs. 27 rec, 441 yds, 3TDs his Soph and only 5 Catches as a frosh.

He did workout supremely well, reminds me of Mammula to be honest. If we take him yes I hope he works out great, but how can you say he's the best TE to come out in decades, because he tested well at workouts?

I thought KW2 coming out was way better as a player, to bad he doesn't have it upstairs to stay off the freakin motorcycle. ugh

 

[phillycard]

The whole issue when talking trade value is that BJ is entering his prime while Moulds' career only is going to go down hill from now.

Yeah Bach, but you would have to convince the other party of that. Teams are very perceptive about why you are dealing a player in the first place. With us it may work as we have Fitz, Quan, and a possibly emerging McCoy, but teams would have to place some value on BJ, which I'm not sure they do. At least not enough to wheel and deal high picks/and or draft position.

 

[Camshaft]

Wow that's some pitch for a workout warrior who only had 51 catches for 871 yards last year w/ 6 TDs. 27 rec, 441 yds, 3TDs his Soph and only 5 Catches as a frosh.

He did workout supremely well, reminds me of Mammula to be honest. If we take him yes I hope he works out great, but how can you say he's the best TE to come out in decades, because he tested well at workouts?

I thought KW2 coming out was way better as a player, to bad he doesn't have it upstairs to stay off the freakin motorcycle. ugh[/QUOTE

KW2: The two-year starter hauled in 119 passes for 1,365 yards (11.5 avg.) and nine touchdowns in 38 games … His 119 catches rank fifth on the school's career-record list and were the most ever by a Miami tight end.

Last two years for VD: 1312 yds (16.8 avg), 9TDs, 78 catches.

The playing stats are from two different schools. Workouts and visuals are the only level playing field. VD workouts are far superior compared to KW2.
KW2: 4.6 40, 340 bench, 33 vertical; VD 4.4 40, 460 bench, 40" vertical.
Now imagine that these stats describe a 254 lbs man.

How can I say he's a TE of the decade prospect, as I noted before, IMO. I'll also say that I've been wrong before, especially when it comes to the draft.

 

[Zeno]

KW2: The two-year starter hauled in 119 passes for 1,365 yards (11.5 avg.) and nine touchdowns in 38 games … His 119 catches rank fifth on the school's career-record list and were the most ever by a Miami tight end.

Last two years for VD: 1312 yds (16.8 avg), 9TDs, 78 catches.

The playing stats are from two different schools. Workouts and visuals are the only level playing field. VD workouts are far superior compared to KW2.
KW2: 4.6 40, 340 bench, 33 vertical; VD 4.4 40, 460 bench, 40" vertical.
Now imagine that these stats describe a 254 lbs man.

How can I say he's a TE of the decade prospect, as I noted before, IMO. I'll also say that I've been wrong before, especially when it comes to the draft.

Wow that makes Davis looking even more impressive...Winslow was considered to be the best at his position in years when he was drafted, Davis makes him look ordinary.

 

[kerouac9]

I'd make that trade if Matt Leinart fell down to #5 (Williams, Bush, Ferguson, & Young being the first 4 picks). In a heartbeat.

Too bad I don't think that the Packers would take it.