Trades.

[slanidrac16]

So we all mention how great Keim is at making trades. What does this really mean?

Trades are great when you are putting the last pieces of the puzzle together. They are a terrible way to build your team as is free agency. It is also testament of just how bad your drafting and free agent signings are.

So Keims “ greatness” of making trades really can be defined as recognizing talent AFTER the fact.

Other good teams let seemingly good players walk because they have a plan in place. They have some idea of how said player will be replaced. We obtain players because of our ineptness.

Love Hopkins but failures of drafting a Wr worth a hoot is costing this team 17 m( ?) of the cap and a second round pick. Some will say “but he shed David Johnson contract”. who signed DJ to that contract and then had to make a trade to get Drake who now we let walk away?

Hudson. Very good player. He will cost us 9m against the cap and a 3rd round pick. Even though we were lead to believe Cole and Galliard were the heir apparent to the position.

It’s not the way to build sustainable success.

So my friends , when you want to throw compliments toward Keim for his great trades please remember WHY he is making a trade. It’s really based on his failures of past decisions, drafts, free agent signings, and most importantly his evaluation of his rosters.

The real sad part is the fall guy will be Kingsbury. Maybe deservedly so to some degree. But if this team falls on its face this year, Keim will remain. Kingsbury will be gone.

Maybe skein could trade for a head coach.

 

[Heucrazy]

I don’t see how Keim survives another down year.

 

[BigDavis75]

Certainly agree. Id place draft then free agency then trades in order of importance for a GM and Keim has failed horribly with the first two. He needs to go.

 

[slanidrac16]

I don’t see how Keim survives another down year.

You would think so but the talking heads on 98.7 made a statement that it isn’t Keim who’s on the hot seat but Kingsbury is.

 

[Solar7]

I do want to give credit where credit is due in the sense that Keim manages to seal deals for players that not any of us anticipate being available, generally getting them at a perceived discount, and them regularly either outperforming or at least maintaining their production (Palmer and Chandler Jones being great examples).

But yes, our cap is busted each year because we haven't been able to convert draft picks into young, talented players. I'd estimate that playoff teams have maybe 10 star/very good contributors that are home grown. We just don't have much of anything.

 

[AZfaninMN]

Deandre Hopkins and Rashard Lawrence(4th round) for David Johnson, Ross Blaylock(2nd round) and a 4th this year.

Carson Palmer and DC Jefferson(7th round) for David Quessenberry(6th round) and Shelby Harris(7th round).

Chandler Jones for Jonathan Cooper and Vonn Bell(2nd round)

Kenyan Drake for Colton Mckivitz(5th round). This pick was originally Miami’s for Josh Rosen trade.

the draft capital that he’s traded away hasn’t resulted in us missing out on a Pro bowl type of player let alone a HOF’er. His drafting is not good and his FA signings are hit and miss. This is a make or break year and luckily he’s not mortgaging future picks if this season doesn’t work out.

 

[Jetstream Green]

So we all mention how great Keim is at making trades. What does this really mean?

Trades are great when you are putting the last pieces of the puzzle together. They are a terrible way to build your team as is free agency. It is also testament of just how bad your drafting and free agent signings are.

So Keims “ greatness” of making trades really can be defined as recognizing talent AFTER the fact.

Other good teams let seemingly good players walk because they have a plan in place. They have some idea of how said player will be replaced. We obtain players because of our ineptness.

Love Hopkins but failures of drafting a Wr worth a hoot is costing this team 17 m( ?) of the cap and a second round pick. Some will say “but he shed David Johnson contract”. who signed DJ to that contract and then had to make a trade to get Drake who now we let walk away?

Hudson. Very good player. He will cost us 9m against the cap and a 3rd round pick. Even though we were lead to believe Cole and Galliard were the heir apparent to the position.

It’s not the way to build sustainable success.

So my friends , when you want to throw compliments toward Keim for his great trades please remember WHY he is making a trade. It’s really based on his failures of past decisions, drafts, free agent signings, and most importantly his evaluation of his rosters.

The real sad part is the fall guy will be Kingsbury. Maybe deservedly so to some degree. But if this team falls on its face this year, Keim will remain. Kingsbury will be gone.

Maybe skein could trade for a head coach.

No, that is not what makes Keim great. Look, I am sure Keim and the rest of the GMs in the NFL recognize that Hudson is a damn good center, as of course everyone knows Hopkins is great but not every GM is able to negotiate a trade like Keim. Let's not sell him short by demeaning what he's exceptional at. Most fine art thieves can identify a great painting by the price alone but actually stealing it is another story... but Keim sucks donkey ____ at drafting

 

[Solar7]

Deandre Hopkins and Rashard Lawrence(4th round) for David Johnson, Ross Blaylock(2nd round) and a 4th this year.

Carson Palmer and DC Jefferson(7th round) for David Quessenberry(6th round) and Shelby Harris(7th round).

Chandler Jones for Jonathan Cooper and Vonn Bell(2nd round)

Kenyan Drake for Colton Mckivitz(5th round). This pick was originally Miami’s for Josh Rosen trade.

the draft capital that he’s traded away hasn’t resulted in us missing out on a Pro bowl type of player let alone a HOF’er. His drafting is not good and his FA signings are hit and miss. This is a make or break year and luckily he’s not mortgaging future picks if this season doesn’t work out.

I hate ascribing a player someone else picked to our draft picks that were traded. It's highly unlikely, if not impossible for us to have selected whoever those teams chose.

 

[AZfaninMN]

I hate ascribing a player someone else picked to our draft picks that were traded. It's highly unlikely, if not impossible for us to have selected whoever those teams chose.

I agree. I’m going through the drafts right now while the kids are busy trying to find the next player drafted at the position that we traded for to get an idea what the alternative would’ve been.

 

[AZfaninMN]

Deandre Hopkins and Rashard Lawrence(4th round) for David Johnson, Ross Blaylock(2nd round) and a 4th this year.

Carson Palmer and DC Jefferson(7th round) for David Quessenberry(6th round) and Shelby Harris(7th round).

Chandler Jones for Jonathan Cooper and Vonn Bell(2nd round)

Kenyan Drake for Colton Mckivitz(5th round). This pick was originally Miami’s for Josh Rosen trade.

the draft capital that he’s traded away hasn’t resulted in us missing out on a Pro bowl type of player let alone a HOF’er. His drafting is not good and his FA signings are hit and miss. This is a make or break year and luckily he’s not mortgaging future picks if this season doesn’t work out.

Next WR’s taken in the draft are Laviska Shenault, KJ Hamler, Chase Claypool. Too early to tell if any will be better that Hopkins, but Hopkins is one of the best in the game today. We also got out of David Johnson’s contract.

Carson Palmer trade is a win because no QBs in the last 20 years has been taken that late and as good.

Next pass rusher taken in the draft are Carl Nassib, Yannick Ngokoue or Kyler Fackrell. Those 3 combined have 85.5 sacks and in the same time Chandler Jones has had 61 sacks. Jonathan Cooper was an obvious disappointment and hasn’t had much of an impact since his departure.

Next RBs taken are Jason Huntley, Eno Benjamin, and Raymond Calais. Having drake didn’t even stop us from taking another RB.

Obviously there’s a butterfly effect to not having these players, but to fill this position via the draft rather than making the trade wouldn’t have made us better.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

10 wins, no playoffs.

Keim back?

 

[football karma]

10 wins, no playoffs.

Keim back?

no question

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

8?

9?

 

[JeffGollin]

Rather than play "woulda coulda" with past drafts and trades...I'm still stuck on why the Bidwills let a perfctly good team of coaches (under Arians) get away.

All those guys eventually did was win a Super Bowl.

Was the chemistry wrong? Was either the Arians culture or the Bidwill culture faulty?

Why did we let Calais, the Badger and other potential HOF'ers escape?

We have as much trouble dealing with success as we do dealing with the day to day running of a football team.

 

[slanidrac16]

No, that is not what makes Keim great. Look, I am sure Keim and the rest of the GMs in the NFL recognize that Hudson is a damn good center, as of course everyone knows Hopkins is great but not every GM is able to negotiate a trade like Keim. Let's not sell him short by demeaning what he's exceptional at. Most fine art thieves can identify a great painting by the price alone but actually stealing it is another story... but Keim sucks donkey ____ at drafting

My point Jet is Keim makes trades that are directly BECAUSE of his failures. How do you draft 3 Wr in one drsft and then have to trade to secure the position? How do you draft 2 “ future centers” only to have to trade to secure the position.

Yes , Keim has a way for arranging trades but at a cost which we at fans forget to see because we focus on “ wow! , we got so and so”.

 

[football karma]

8?

9?

winning record everyone stays

8 wins is a tough one -- depends on the quality of season

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Certainly agree. Id place draft then free agency then trades in order of importance for a GM and Keim has failed horribly with the first two. He needs to go.

100%. Draft is least expensive route. Free agency the next in terms of $$$. Trade is last ditch hope that costs $$$ and draft capital. It’s the “admit failure with first two opportunities” option or the occasional spring on an opportunity route. It’s great that keim is good at it, it’s terrible that he has to rely on it due to his ineptitude in the first two aspects of his job.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My point Jet is Keim makes trades that are directly BECAUSE of his failures. How do you draft 3 Wr in one drsft and then have to trade to secure the position? How do you draft 2 “ future centers” only to have to trade to secure the position.

Yes , Keim has a way for arranging trades but at a cost which we at fans forget to see because we focus on “ wow! , we got do and so”.

Right, it’s not the selections after the trade that should be looked at. It’s the slew of pics thrown at the problem ineffectually to the extent the trade becomes necessary.

 

[slanidrac16]

Rather than play "woulda coulda" with past drafts and trades...I'm still stuck on why the Bidwills let a perfctly good team of coaches (under Arians) get away.

All those guys eventually did was win a Super Bowl.

Was the chemistry wrong? Was either the Arians culture or the Bidwill culture faulty?

Why did we let Calais, the Badger and other potential HOF'ers escape?

We have as much trouble dealing with success as we do dealing with the day to day running of a football team.

No doubt. Another glaring weakness of Keim. Arnold is a perfect example. Had he been offered a contract extension mid season last year I think he would have jumped at the chance.
Players have to look at their situation. Arnold was lauded by Kingsbury and more so Kyler. Now we watch him walk away weakening a position instead of building on it.

Arnold can’t sit and wait for an offer when somebody is willing to throw 6 m at him. Bottom line is we COULD’NT sign him because we couldn’t afford him. Instead we’ll check every week to see if Williams is on the inactive list.

 

[az jam]

Hahaha This post is in Keim attack mode no matter what he does. He now makes horrible trades. Unbelievable.

 

[slanidrac16]

Hahaha This post is in Keim attack mode no matter what he does. He now makes horrible trades. Unbelievable.

Read it slowly. He is being attacked for HAVING to make trades to make up for his deficiencies in the draft, retaining players, cap management and free agent signings and bad contracts.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hahaha This post is in Keim attack mode no matter what he does. He now makes horrible trades. Unbelievable.

. . . said no one anywhere on ASFN. Where are you getting this?

 

[Arz101]

I want Keim gone two years ago.

There is no chance Keim wil not be GM in 2022.

98.7 propagandists have been told by Cardinals to throw KK under the bus. You can see it happening on their shows already. This is the game inside the game 98.7 plays for it's masters.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

 

[slanidrac16]

I want Keim gone two years ago.

There is no chance Keim wil not be GM in 2022.

98.7 propagandists have been told by Cardinals to throw KK under the bus. You can see it happening on their shows already. This is the game inside the game 98.7 plays for it's masters.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

You’re smarter than me. I’ve been backing this buffoon for 5 years. Know why? I’m an idiot....was.

 

[Arz101]

You’re smarter than me. I’ve been backing this buffoon for 5 years. Know why? I’m an idiot....was.

Keim was great the first three. Decent for next two. 3-13 and hiring a third head coach was what the sealed deal for me.


Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

 

[TRW]

I think it's simply "systemic ineptitude" starting at the top (ownership). Has been for about a century. Past coaches and a former FO guy just won a SB. As was mentioned, quality players have simply been let go. I know, I know, there are legit reasons for some of all of that but, taken as a whole, it shows a pattern of head scratching decisions being made. Every. Stinking. Year.

Keim is here as long as he wants to be IMO. MB probably won't fire him in the near future, they seem to be joined at the hip. Not sure MB would hire/promote anyone better anyway.

This offseason is, sort of, a "lather, rinse, repeat" experience. The complaints are the same about the players being brought in/let go, only the names have changed.