trading down, multiple picks etc

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by CardNots
Russ,

Good point. Just don't want to trade an chance at an impact player. Picks like Q are rare indeed...

Can you imagine if we had listened to me and picked Kelley Washington instead!

 

[kerouac9]

The thing about trading for the next year's #1 is that you never know where THAT is going to land. Look at the Pats. They're going to be in a worse situation this draft, pick-wise, than they were last year. If the Ravens make the playoffs, as well, they're going to have two sub-20 1st rounders.

If the Raiders wanted to trade and drafted Eli and then sat him and stayed with Mirer or Gannon, they could easily go 8-8, and the Cards would be in the same situation as the Saints were last season, with two mid-round useless picks.

I think that you have to go with the surest thing that you have. I don't think that this team lacks talent as much as catalysts that the team can rally around on each side of the ball, like Ray Lewis in Baltimore or Michael Vick in the ATL. Those kinds of players raise the game of no only their side of the ball, but THE ENTIRE TEAM.

I just don't see that kind of defensive player in this draft. Julius Peppers was the last defensive one that I remember. And while we can use a corner, I don't really think that they can play that role (look at Champ Bailey or Aeneas Williams when he was here; did he elevate the play of our entire defense?). Corners in the Top 5 or 10 are as risky a prospect as wideouts; ask San Diego how they like Quentin Jammer.

Eli Manning is the most solid option that the Cards have at #1. Take it.

 

[Big red 2]

Originally posted by




wallyburger
My point would be that the Cards are more than a franchise QB away from respectability and the huge salary constraints just such a player will command will only exagerate the roster problems. In a deep draft, multiple picks makes sense to me.

 

[Big red 2]

This team needs a pass rush ,corner back and punt returner and over-all speed. remember we could not win with jake

 

[JeffGollin]

I was with you until McDougle,
I listed McDougle not so much in hindsight looking back on things from today's perspective - as I would have on draft day last year when he was considered by most folks to be a sack machine.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
I was with you until McDougle,
I listed McDougle not so much in hindsight looking back on things from today's perspective - as I would have on draft day last year when he was considered by most folks to be a sack machine.

Not really he was grouped in as the "next" best DE. the reason his name comes up at all is ESPN told us on draft day that we made the trade with him as our target at 18 and we were upset that Philly snuck in front and got him. We can only guess if that's true or not.

at least one predraft report I read had Pace rated ahead of him, Pace is 10 pounds heavier, ran virtually the same 40 (4.7 to Pace's 4.8) and Pace had 29 sacks in college, McDougle 13 in 2 years at Miami, Pace had more sacks than McDougle both his junior and senior year admittedly at different levels of competition.

The interesting thing is if you read Calvin's scouting report on NFL.com it says he has a problem shedding blocks(no counter moves) and is too slow to "redirect" when engaged by a blocker, which to a T describes the problem he's having this year.

I found a magazine yesterday that I had at home that said if not for the broken leg Pace MIGHT have been the #2 DE in the draft behind Suggs and ahead of McDougle and Haynes, and compared Pace to Strahan because of his physique and lower body strength. It said McDougle has the most pass rush moves but is only about 260 and is already a strong guy so they wondered if he had the frame to get much bigger. Haynes was the biggest of the group but lacked burst and explosion.

Obviously it hasn't worked out yet for pace but I don't think this is a kid who lacks talent, I think he's playing in a very tough spot with very little coaching and I think he'll be a much better player in the future for us.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Obviously it hasn't worked out yet for pace but I don't think this is a kid who lacks talent, I think he's playing in a very tough spot with very little coaching and I think he'll be a much better player in the future for us.

I'd like to see him roaming before the snap instead of face to face with a left tackle in passing situations. The guy is athletic but you'd never know it in our defense. If they're going to go with three down linemen as much as they do, why not stunt this guy from almost a linebacker position? Something. Anything.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
I'd like to see him roaming before the snap instead of face to face with a left tackle in passing situations. The guy is athletic but you'd never know it in our defense. If they're going to go with three down linemen as much as they do, why not stunt this guy from almost a linebacker position? Something. Anything.

I think you've eaten too many "Poop Sandwiches" from Cheba Hut!

 

[SECTION 11]

yah mon. irie. asfn-style all de' while.
i & i have asfn long time before me had any super bowl.
jah. ras-tafari.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Not really he was grouped in as the "next" best DE. the reason his name comes up at all is ESPN told us on draft day that we made the trade with him as our target at 18 and we were upset that Philly snuck in front and got him. We can only guess if that's true or not.

at least one predraft report I read had Pace rated ahead of him, Pace is 10 pounds heavier, ran virtually the same 40 (4.7 to Pace's 4.8) and Pace had 29 sacks in college, McDougle 13 in 2 years at Miami, Pace had more sacks than McDougle both his junior and senior year admittedly at different levels of competition.

If one understands U of Miami's defensive philosophy, then the # of sacks by a DL is not important. In Miami's philosophy, there is very little stunting and blitzing. The DL basically keep the OL off of the Linebackers and the secondary shuts down the routes. This still translates every year into a top ten ranking in pass defense. The year McDougle came out, the DL was very undersized with players like McDougle playing out of position. Miami wil rotate 8 DL and that keeps the number of sacks down. Very disciplined Defense that hardly ever gets burned by the big play. McDougle was probably a reach in a not so deep draft.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by wallyburger
[
If one understands U of Miami's defensive philosophy, then the # of sacks by a DL is not important. In Miami's philosophy, there is very little stunting and blitzing. The DL basically keep the OL off of the Linebackers and the secondary shuts down the routes. This still translates every year into a top ten ranking in pass defense. The year McDougle came out, the DL was very undersized with players like McDougle playing out of position. Miami wil rotate 8 DL and that keeps the number of sacks down. Very disciplined Defense that hardly ever gets burned by the big play. McDougle was probably a reach in a not so deep draft.

Understood, but after 6 sacks as a junior, McDougle came into his senior year very highly touted looking for a breakout senior year, and he had only 7 sacks. Like William Joseph he didn't have the senior year expected and both fell as a result.

He is certainly a talent, but he wasn't really considered a sack machine as Jeff's post said, just a great athlete on a team full of great athletes at Miami.

Had he been there at 18, and been healthy, odds are we'd be discussing how disappointed we are with him instead of Pace.

The only DL's in the draft to make any impact as pass rushers this year are Suggs and Williams.