Trading Gortat

[BC867]

Some of you are making a lot out of a handful of games. The majority of the games Gortat has played well.

Not only that, but he is our only legitimate Center. Lopez is too ignorant and Frye plays too soft.

It will never be a question of trading Gortat. It will be a question of moving our only NBA Center for anything less than a better Center (by trade, free agency or drafting).

When was the last time the Suns had a center average 15/10?? Exactly!

Exactly exactly! And remember, Gortat's 15.7/9.9 includes starting this season with a splint.

 

[Mainstreet]

It does seem like he is dinged up. I can't remember what game it was (San Antonio maybe), but he got knocked to the ground pretty hard. I don't remember him being so leery of contact or going inside against shot blockers as he has been the last three or four games.

Nobody's going to give up a top five draft pick for him, but he's a good center with a piece of the price tag for the next two seasons. To get the most out of him he definitely needs to be paired with a pick and roll guard, so his value will decrease if/when Steve Nash leaves this summer.

Joe

Here is a tidbit from an article written by Paul Coro at azcentral.com dated 4-19-12 which may help explain why Gortat has turned to a more finesse player than the early version which was more of a power player. I prefer the power player style more although I do not see why it can't be both depending upon the circumstance.

Even the "Machine" would acknowledge that he needs a little more "Hammer" in his game.

The byproduct of showing a more-refined shooting touch over the past 16 months of career growth with the Suns is that Gortat has turned into more of a finesse player around the basket. It began when he returned from a broken thumb and was reluctant to dunk with a splint, especially after injuring it on a dunk, but that ability to lay in the ball ambidextrously while rolling to the basket has since dominated his game.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...arcin-gortat-working-being-more-physical.html

 

[Bufalay]

Is Gortat any better than Mark West? I don't understand why there are so many people on this board who seem enamored with him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Is Gortat any better than Mark West? I don't understand why there are so many people on this board who seem enamored with him.

he's definitely better than Mark West. But that's not saying a whole hell of a lot. He's a solid NBA C and for a team that's almost never had a C period, I think people give him a little more love than he deserves.

 

[Folster]

I'd love for someone who had the time to compile a list of the Suns starting centers over the years.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Is Gortat any better than Mark West? I don't understand why there are so many people on this board who seem enamored with him.

Well, if you look at Mark West and compare him to his contemporaries and then do the same thing with Gortat today, YES, he's much, much, much, much, much better than West. It's not even close. West was bottom tier as a starter. Although, granted, it was a time when the center position was much better represented than today so it's tough to compare them straight up but even straight up, Gortat wins IMO.

I think people are judging Gortat on a rough couple of weeks without looking at his history. He's probably played a lot more basketball in the past 14 months than he has in any other 5 year stretch of his life. He's clearly worn down but in the middle of this season he was playing like a top 5 center. I'm confident he'll return to that level next year.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Is Gortat any better than Mark West? I don't understand why there are so many people on this board who seem enamored with him.

Gortat is much better offensively as he has a decent outside shot and possesses more mobility like on the pick and roll. Mark West was strictly an under the basket player on offense that's why his FG% should be high. Mark West could play defense but the referees rarely let him. He was a foul magnet. At least Gortat can stay on the court while playing defense.

I never seen most of the fouls that were called on Mark West.

 

[Superbone]

Is Gortat any better than Mark West? I don't understand why there are so many people on this board who seem enamored with him.

Are you serious? West had no offensive game to speak of.

 

[BC867]

Is Gortat any better than Mark West? I don't understand why there are so many people on this board who seem enamored with him.

In Mark West's six full seasons with the Suns, he averaged:

...PPG.........RPG
....7.2..........6.7
...10.5.........8.9
....7.7..........6.9
....6.1..........4.5
....5.3..........5.6
....4.7..........3.6

Now, with a straight face, ask again if Marcin Gortat is better than Mark West.

 

[Bufalay]

Mark West's first season with the Suns he played 29 games and averaged 11.8 ppg and 8.9 rpg in 31.6 mpg. His 3rd season with the Suns was the only other year that he played close to 30 mpg and during that year he averaged 10.5 ppg and 8.9 rpg in 82 games.

Those numbers aren't much worse than what Gortat's done in his time with the Suns. It seems possible that if he were to spend the next few years of his career playing on an elite team the way that West did when he was Gortat's age that his numbers would decrease.

I agree Gortat is a good center and he could be a useful player on a good team and that he's better than Mark West. I just wanted to make the comparison in order to put his value into perspective because I don't see him as a player to build around.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Mark West's first season with the Suns he played 29 games and averaged 11.8 ppg and 8.9 rpg in 31.6 mpg. His 3rd season with the Suns was the only other year that he played close to 30 mpg and during that year he averaged 10.5 ppg and 8.9 rpg in 82 games.

Those numbers aren't much worse than what Gortat's done in his time with the Suns. It seems possible that if he were to spend the next few years of his career playing on an elite team the way that West did when he was Gortat's age that his numbers would decrease.

I agree Gortat is a good center and he could be a useful player on a good team and that he's better than Mark West. I just wanted to make the comparison in order to put his value into perspective because I don't see him as a player to build around.

It's also possible that if West had to spend his career alongside an aged Nash and a cast of very average players that the defense would play him honestly and he'd never find the basket. Just as it's possible that if Gortat was playing alongside a Tom Chambers or Charles Barkley that he'd have a field day against a defense that couldn't afford to pay much attention to him. Personally, I think the gap between them is huge and I think we've yet to see Gortat's best.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

Both West and Gortat were/are reluctant to assert themselves physically. In West's case, it's probably because the referees called a foul on him every time he exhaled. I don't know what Gortat's excuse is.

 

[carey]

Both West and Gortat were/are reluctant to assert themselves physically. In West's case, it's probably because the referees called a foul on him every time he exhaled. I don't know what Gortat's excuse is.

A million times this. You hear of "point a minute" guys that are instant offense? Well Mark West was a "foul a minute" guy. Not to mention the phrase "stone hands" might have been invented for him.

 

[JS22]

Mark West's first season with the Suns he played 29 games and averaged 11.8 ppg and 8.9 rpg in 31.6 mpg. His 3rd season with the Suns was the only other year that he played close to 30 mpg and during that year he averaged 10.5 ppg and 8.9 rpg in 82 games.

Those numbers aren't much worse than what Gortat's done in his time with the Suns. It seems possible that if he were to spend the next few years of his career playing on an elite team the way that West did when he was Gortat's age that his numbers would decrease.

I agree Gortat is a good center and he could be a useful player on a good team and that he's better than Mark West. I just wanted to make the comparison in order to put his value into perspective because I don't see him as a player to build around.

No way is West even close to Gortat.

I think Gortat is just starting to wear down trying to be a top-level scorer. When he's not. He'd be the PERFECT center on a championship contender.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think it's become clear that any future in which the Suns have playoff success is going to have to be without Marcin Gortat. He's soft, unreliable, and is a liability in a physical game. Without Robin Lopez because of the Flagrant 2 against the Clippers, we might lose a game that will decide the fate of our season if Gortat doesn't play very well.

I am not so sure you have been paying attention all season. Gortat has had some physical problems but for the most part has been the model of consistency and played pretty damn good. Lopez has managed to make an impact in maybe 5 games this season and I am not convinced he was a difference maker in any of them but maybe 1 or 2.

Gortat's impact on this team is undeniable. The Suns were bottom feeders in almost every Center Category in the NBA when Lopez was our starter. That is a fact.

• The guy is #7 in the NBA in double doubles. You don't accomplish that without being physical.

• He is currently #4 among all centers in overall efficiency at the center position which means he is in fact pretty reliable.

• The Suns with Gortat in the lineup are #6 in the entire NBA in Defensive Efficiency at the Center position. Prior to Gortat the Suns were one of the worst.

• Suns are #12 in the NBA at rebounding from the Center position even though Lopez continues to be one of the worst rebounders in the entire NBA even off the bench. The Suns were last in the NBA when Lopez was our starter.

Gortat is physical and consistent enough to help the Suns completely reverse the Suns play at Center. There is only a few times in Suns history that Suns have been relevant at this position and they are right now. When is the last time you can say the Suns were one of the best defenders and rebounders from the Center spot in the entire NBA?

Listen, there are some things that bug me about the guy. The thing that bugs me the most about him is I feel that even though he is one of the best centers the Suns have had in a long time.....sometimes I wish he could come up bigger in the clutch or get mean sometimes a la Mark West. I wish at times Gortat had more of an enforcer attitude.

This team has much much much bigger problems than the Center position.

What I'm wondering is who you think the Suns would have to get in return to where you'd be willing to trade Gortat this offseason? His numbers are good and his highlights as a player might make him seem attractive to other teams. Maybe we could get Kris Humphreys or Leandro Barbosa.. Or Kenyon Martin.. someone who is either on the older side of a good career, or the younger side of a mediocre one (like Humphreys)..

Those trade suggestions are horrendous. Gortat is better than any of those players you mentioned. If your going to trade Gortat it should be for a high pick that will be used on a young big man. Gortat IMO can help a team that is one player away from winning a title if that team is missing a legit big man. If the Suns couldn't get anything but what you suggest it's because Sarver and this FO is considered a joke not because Gortat doesn't have a higher value.

The Suns don't want to go back to small ball and looking for another center for the next 10 years.

 

[sunsfan88]

This is slinslin's dream thread right here.

There's an ejaculation everytime this thread gets bumped.