Trading Rosen and trading down for Murray might be a great idea

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Are you saying you're willing to use the #1 pick in the draft for a backup QB?

So that's what you got out of what all i said? Good one, Mr Politician!

 

[NJCardFan]

So that's what you got out of what all i said? Good one, Mr Politician!

Because it's EXACTLY what you said:

another caveat is we need a backup anyway and wouldn't paying the one who doesn't win starting job still be cheaper for the 4 or 5 yrs on their rookie contract than paying an experienced quality backup ?

 

[Dback Jon]

No he wouldn’t. He’d be #2 behind Haskins. Murray will be # 2 at best too.

Haskins is no where near a consensus #1 pick.

Take your buckeyes off.

 

[scandalous_b]

Or the inverse could happen.

Rosen continues to look like a QB with tantalizing skills but an uncanny knack for putting easy dump off passes into the dirt while also making one to two throws a game that make your jaw drop.

Meanwhile Murray turns into Baker/Mahomes 2.0 and lights the NFL on fire leading the Cards to multiple titles, revolutionizing the position of QB and breaking the Curse of Pottsville in the process.

I have seen many QB's like Rosen continue to look like Rosen long term. Heck, we have had a few. Maybe less than 5 QB's this generation have bucked that trend. Not the top QB or even 2nd or 3rd QB in his draft, but became a superstar.

Kyler though...... Could be what some of us are talking about. Like Brees. Or like Wilson.

No idea what point you are trying to make here.

You say you've seen "many QBs like Rosen" that have had disappointing careers. We've also seen many (even if the # is far less) turn into quality NFL QBs.

You then go on to hype up Kyler - despite the fact that we have NEVER seen anybody like him. Nobody with his physical traits or skill set has ever succeeded in the NFL. You mention Baker, Mahomes, Brees, and Wilson as comps. The problem is all four of those guys are incredibly different.

I'm not saying that Kyler won't succeed in the NFL, but there is absolutely no track record of it happening.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You have your opinion and I have mine. Here's something you don't want to hear: your opinion isn't the only one that matters. You're not that important, k? I'm entitled to my opinion and I don't give a red F if you agree with it or not. I really don't need your permission one way or the other. Don't like what I have to say, don't read it. Simple as that.

Lol... I really get under your skin, huh? I didn't say you needed my permission to do anything. You gave your opinion, I BLASTED it with facts and my opinion. Why you have to start dropping F-bombs and getting all huffy is a you problem dude, not me.

And the witchcraft thing came from Brady, not me: https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/02/07/tom-brady-gisele-bundchen-superstitions-super-bowl-stones/

Oh, and it wasn't Cassell's fault the Pats missed the playoffs. He led his team to an 11 win season which included beating our Super Bowl bound team by 40 points. It isn't his fault the league is set up a certain way where teams that finished 9-7, 9-6-1, and even 8-8 made the playoffs but the Patriots, at 11 wins did not. 4 teams that year made the playoffs that had worse records than NE. Oh, and a backup QB leading his team to 11 wins hot off the bench is pretty fricken good. Name me another backup QB who was thrust into the starting job in the first quarter of week 1 and led his team to double digit wins.

never said it was Cassel's fault they missed the playoffs. Just showed the OUTRAGEOUS difference between being 18-1 and 11-5. It's a SEVEN GAME DIFFERENCE in wins which shows how important Brady was.

I do like that you never once addressed the fact that Brady has in fact played in multiple different systems, going air-raid in 2008 and putting up the best stats of all time up until that year.

And you never once actually said exactly what "system" Brady has played in his entire career. Instead you just started punching keys with steam probably leaving your ears.

As to your back-up QBs who came into the rescue... well, how about a guy named Tom Brady who was a back up and came in Game 3 and... you know... WON THE SUPER BOWL?

Now, I'm sure you'll ignore AGAIN my questions as to exactly what system Brady has run his entire career and tell me to go F myself again, but that just underscores how ridiculous your argument is.

Toodles!

 

[Dr. Jones]

No idea what point you are trying to make here.

You say you've seen "many QBs like Rosen" that have had disappointing careers. We've also seen many (even if the # is far less) turn into quality NFL QBs.

You then go on to hype up Kyler - despite the fact that we have NEVER seen anybody like him. Nobody with his physical traits or skill set has ever succeeded in the NFL. You mention Baker, Mahomes, Brees, and Wilson as comps. The problem is all four of those guys are incredibly different.

I'm not saying that Kyler won't succeed in the NFL, but there is absolutely no track record of it happening.

Are you telling me that you can't see how Kyler compares to all four of those guys? Not even a bit? Having a mix of those 4 guys with the speed and elusiveness of a Vick or Tarik Cohen could be unstoppable in the right offense. Accuracy of Baker, the understanding of the offense like Mahomes or Baker, and finally the size of a Brees & Wilson with the ability to move like a Wilson or Vick.


My problem with Josh is I see more Keenum, Goff, and Flacco in him than I do Brady, Manning, or Aikman.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Crimson Warrior case study for you:

Go look up Geno Smith's time @ WV...Air Raid QB in a dynamic system, good open field runner, etc...then get back to me about KM

Okay, this is what I found:

Geno Smith's senior season stats:

QBR = 163

rushing 66 for 151

Murray senior season:

QBR = 199

rushing was 140 for 1001


Geno was not a good open field runner. He was okay. Murray is not a good runner either. He's elite. He's a more accurate Mike Vick. He's the only college QB in history to average at least 300 passing and 60 rushing. Murray is a once-in-a-generation talent.

But you know best. Keep rocking the "pass on Murray" bandwagon. See where that gets you.

 

[wit3card]

Okay, this is what I found:

Geno Smith's senior season stats:

QBR = 163

rushing 66 for 151

Murray senior season:

QBR = 199

rushing was 140 for 1001


Geno was not a good open field runner. He was okay. Murray is not a good runner either. He's elite. He's a more accurate Mike Vick. He's the only college QB in history to average at least 300 passing and 60 rushing. Murray is a once-in-a-generation talent.

But you know best. Keep rocking the "pass on Murray" bandwagon. See where that gets you.

Geno Smith is about out of the league ... that bad ... that isn't a statement or endorsement or argument for murray...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Okay, this is what I found:

Geno Smith's senior season stats:

QBR = 163

rushing 66 for 151

Murray senior season:

QBR = 199

rushing was 140 for 1001


Geno was not a good open field runner. He was okay. Murray is not a good runner either. He's elite. He's a more accurate Mike Vick. He's the only college QB in history to average at least 300 passing and 60 rushing. Murray is a once-in-a-generation talent.

If this was REALLY the case... a ONCE IN A GENERATION TALENT, wouldn't EVERYONE say he's the best QB in the draft and the Cardinals could get a bonanza trading that pick? A Generational talent isn't listed behind the likes of Haskins in every mock draft by every professional scout on the web.

Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning... those are the ONLY "Once In A Generation Talent" sure fire QBs destined for greatness I can remember being labeled as such in the last twenty years. NO ONE is talking about Murray being in their league... except you and other Oklahoma homers.

 

[DVontel]

Are you telling me that you can't see how Kyler compares to all four of those guys? Not even a bit? Having a mix of those 4 guys with the speed and elusiveness of a Vick or Tarik Cohen could be unstoppable in the right offense. Accuracy of Baker, the understanding of the offense like Mahomes or Baker, and finally the size of a Brees & Wilson with the ability to move like a Wilson or Vick.


My problem with Josh is I see more Keenum, Goff, and Flacco in him than I do Brady, Manning, or Aikman.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

If this was REALLY the case... a ONCE IN A GENERATION TALENT, wouldn't EVERYONE say he's the best QB in the draft and the Cardinals could get a bonanza trading that pick? A Generational talent isn't listed behind the likes of Haskins in every mock draft by every professional scout on the web.

Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning... those are the ONLY "Once In A Generation Talent" sure fire QBs destined for greatness I can remember being labeled as such in the last twenty years. NO ONE is talking about Murray being in their league... except you and other Oklahoma homers.

Exactly.

Generational talents aren’t usually they 2nd, 3rd, or 4th best QBs in their draft.

 

[The Kraken]

Okay, this is what I found:

Geno Smith's senior season stats:

QBR = 163

rushing 66 for 151

Murray senior season:

QBR = 199

rushing was 140 for 1001


Geno was not a good open field runner. He was okay. Murray is not a good runner either. He's elite. He's a more accurate Mike Vick. He's the only college QB in history to average at least 300 passing and 60 rushing. Murray is a once-in-a-generation talent.

But you know best. Keep rocking the "pass on Murray" bandwagon. See where that gets you.

I do not know what is best...but I know a homer blinded by his pride for his school when I see one...

We all love our school, heck I would LOVE for N'Keal Harry to play @ home, but we have way too many other holes to attack before I would even make that suggestion.

We have a potential franchise QB already, we do not need to go all in on another unknown...and if you think Murray is going to get away with have of the crap he did in the BIG 12 (with its sterling reputation for hard-nosed defense) then you are fooling yourself. That is not even taking Murray's small body of work into account.

We could very easily trade Rosen, find out Murray cannot hack in the NFL (which he will run to the Oakland A's like a scolded dog) and then for the third year in a row, we will draft a QB...that is insane.

Remove your crimson and cream glasses and come on in for the big win.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Exactly.

Generational talents aren’t usually they 2nd, 3rd, or 4th best QBs in their draft.

Sir, when players achieve (positive) things at their position that have never been done before in history, then I think that lends itself to the idea that they are rare, or perhaps even generational.

You know what, I'm sure your right Cbus. Daniel Jones has a much better chance to succeed in the NFL than Murray.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I do not know what is best...but I know a homer blinded by his pride for his school when I see one...

We all love our school, heck I would LOVE for N'Keal Harry to play @ home, but we have way too many other holes to attack before I would even make that suggestion.

We have a potential franchise QB already, we do not need to go all in on another unknown...and if you think Murray is going to get away with have of the crap he did in the BIG 12 (with its sterling reputation for hard-nosed defense) then you are fooling yourself. That is not even taking Murray's small body of work into account.

We could very easily trade Rosen, find out Murray cannot hack in the NFL (which he will run to the Oakland A's like a scolded dog) and then for the third year in a row, we will draft a QB...that is insane.

Remove your crimson and cream glasses and come on in for the big win.

Ha. Your peers could learn from you on how to chide someone with whom you disagree with. Nice post sir.

Sigh... It just bothers me immensely Kraken, when people denigrate murray unnecessarily (e.g. "the scrambling midget"), and when he doesn't gett the credit he deserves for what he achieved in school. That's what get's my hackles up.

Look, you're right, we do have a QBOF on the roster. Rosen is very talented, and if the Cards pass on Murray, and hitch their wagon to Josh, in all honestly that's perfectly reasonable, and maybe even the smart way to go. I'll still love the Cardinals, and I'll pull for whichever quarterback they fire out there. That's just how I'm wired man.

I still believe that Murray could help the Cardinals, but I will also try to stay on the right side of "reasonable" as we debate this through April.

 

[cardncubfan]

Okay, this is what I found:

Geno Smith's senior season stats:

QBR = 163

rushing 66 for 151

Murray senior season:

QBR = 199

rushing was 140 for 1001


Geno was not a good open field runner. He was okay. Murray is not a good runner either. He's elite. He's a more accurate Mike Vick. He's the only college QB in history to average at least 300 passing and 60 rushing. Murray is a once-in-a-generation talent.

But you know best. Keep rocking the "pass on Murray" bandwagon. See where that gets you.

So are you saying Murray is a running back?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sir, when players achieve (positive) things at their position that have never been done before in history, then I think that lends itself to the idea that they are rare, or perhaps even generational.

Then why isn't ANYONE but YOU calling him that? Why isn't he the sure-fire number 1 pick on every mock draft? Why isn't he even the consensus number 1 QB in the draft? He had a great season, but one great season at the college level doesn't mean he's a once in a generation player at the PRO level.

Is it because the entire football scouting world... just... hates Oklahoma... for some unknown reason?

As far as putting up stats that have never been done before in history, back in the 80's, did that make Andre Ware a once in a generation talent? I mean, he put up numbers NO QB HAD EVER put up until that point? how about the guy who followed up... David Kingler who bettered those numbers the next year?

Being a generational talent is about MORE than ONE season's worth of great numbers. A Once In A Generation Talent has literally EVERYTHING: Unseen athleticism, Perfect Size, and almost always at least TWO seasons of incredible football. That's what usually makes some once in a generation by reasonable standards... they have EVERYTHING from perfect size, athleticism and great stats with a track record. Murray has some of those, but not all.

 

[HeHasRosen]

Are you telling me that you can't see how Kyler compares to all four of those guys? Not even a bit? Having a mix of those 4 guys with the speed and elusiveness of a Vick or Tarik Cohen could be unstoppable in the right offense. Accuracy of Baker, the understanding of the offense like Mahomes or Baker, and finally the size of a Brees & Wilson with the ability to move like a Wilson or Vick.


My problem with Josh is I see more Keenum, Goff, and Flacco in him than I do Brady, Manning, or Aikman.

Dude, Murray is none of those things. He is not as accurate as Baker or even Rosen imo. Hes not the size of brees or wilson either. Smaller in height and stature. Nor do I think he's as cerebral as wilson or brees which makes up for their lack in size. I will give you Vick. I see RGIII 2.0

Edit: forgot to mention he has a great team surrounding him plus the best offensive coach in college football

 

[The Kraken]

Ha. Your peers could learn from you on how to chide someone with whom you disagree with. Nice post sir.

Sigh... It just bothers me immensely Kraken, when people denigrate murray unnecessarily (e.g. "the scrambling midget"), and when he doesn't gett the credit he deserves for what he achieved in school. That's what get's my hackles up.

Look, you're right, we do have a QBOF on the roster. Rosen is very talented, and if the Cards pass on Murray, and hitch their wagon to Josh, in all honestly that's perfectly reasonable, and maybe even the smart way to go. I'll still love the Cardinals, and I'll pull for whichever quarterback they fire out there. That's just how I'm wired man.

I still believe that Murray could help the Cardinals, but I will also try to stay on the right side of "reasonable" as we debate this through April.

If it is any consolation to you CW, I hope Murray does well and QBs like him continue the trend of opening up the offense further.
Let's hope for an ideal situation for him and a superb draft for our Cards!

Cheers,
Kraken

 

[sdscard4]

Shoot since all we need to do is look at QB college stats to make a point....let's pull up Gino Torretta....A Smith...J Russell....R Mirer....Leaf...Ty freaking Detmer. Point is we have no clue how Rosen or Kyler will turn out. I for one like the idea of getting tons of picks and going for Kyler. Rosen was drafted just in the same spot as Matty and we survived losing him. Hell the Ravens probably grabbed the best one in Jackson. That's going to make everyone look like idiots. I'm just glad were in a position with a ton of options

 

[POISON]

If Rosen was in this year's draft, He'd be the consensus #1 Pick.

No way.... he's a mid round qb at best

 

[POISON]

This. Please stop the madness! Every single thread his been taken over by this crap. I don't even know which one im posting in anymore. If Rosen was in this draft he would be the consensus #1 pick and we would be taking him. Murray had a great team to work with. Rosen has had that.. Never. No midget. Bosa or trade down for picks. Those are the only two options right now

There's NO WAY Rosen would be the consensus #1 pick coming out of this years draft. ... he's an average qb at best....

 

[Phrazbit]

I might not be able to see the forest through the trees... but somewhere Kyler Murray can't see the lawn through the grass.

 

[HeHasRosen]

There's NO WAY Rosen would be the consensus #1 pick coming out of this years draft. ... he's an average qb at best....

Yeah no way is a stretch. What i do know is he would be the #1 QB on the board. Mostly every draft pundit agrees with that. And in a year with a weak QB class its not hard to imagine him going number 1 overall

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Kliff Kingsbury: Josh Rosen has the “keys to the castle”

Kliff Kingsbury continues to talk up Josh Rosen and dispute the notion that Rosen doesn’t fit his Air Raid system.

“Every time I’ve turned on the tape, there is something you like and something you can build with,” Kingsbury said Friday on 98.7 Arizona’s Sports Station, via the team website.

Kingsbury didn’t rule out using a fullback and said the running game will have NFL-style elements to it. It fits with what offensive line coach Sean Kugler said about David Johnson and the running game being a “big part” of the Cardinals offense.

“I don’t think it’ll be as foreign as people are saying,” Kingsbury said of his offense.

Still, the offense will go as Rosen goes.The quarterback threw 11 touchdowns and 14 interceptions behind an awful offensive line last season, and the Cardinals went 3-10 with him as their starter.

“He needs to understand we are in this together, and I want him to know he kind of has the keys to the castle and let’s build this deal as a group,” Kingsbury said. “Make sure he is comfortable with what we are doing, if he doesn’t like something that is going on with this offense or the way I’m coaching it, let’s talk about it and come up with the best answer. When [the quarterbacks] have that type of ownership, it goes a long way.”

 

[AZCrazy]

Kyler Murray is going to light up the NFL. No doubt about it.
The problem is just that it won't be for long. He'll be broken and that will be that.