Trail Blazers at Suns 10-5-18 (preason)

[JCSunsfan]

Ugh, that's so disheartening. I'm not sure what can be done though. We added vets who can play, we have young stars. Of course we need a PG but that's not everything. We need a wakeup call of some sort. I liked Booker talking about being mad about missing the playoffs last year and vowing never to have that happen again but I think his absence has been missed. It's not his playing so much as a leader on the floor.

I like Ayton as the "defensive coordinator" but if he's not doing that, Igor needs to yank him. Igor and Chandler should be on the same page in terms of how Ayton needs to play and both need to ride him and hold him accountable. Let him sit with Chandler and get chewed out while Holmes plays and if Chandler doesn't think he'll change when it's time to check back in, Tyson goes in instead.

Ayton's play has been good though, his defense has had lapses though and that shouldn't happen with the role Igor put him in. Maybe it's too much too soon but it's too late to undo it.

Its not that disheartening. He is pushing them. We need a coach to do that. This is about Bender, and maybe Ayton a bit.

 

[Yuma]

I like personally that he is still evaluating the players. I am wondering if it si effort or people not knowing the plays and system still. Playing hesitant.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I like personally that he is still evaluating the players. I am wondering if it si effort or people not knowing the plays and system still. Playing hesitant.

Coach backed off of that comment later on, blamed it mostly on players losing confidence.

 

[BC867]

I like personally that he is still evaluating the players. I am wondering if it si effort or people not knowing the plays and system still. Playing hesitant.

'Good point. Training is for deciding on a rotation. Then comes the expected chemistry and confidence. I just hope the 2 1/2 Point Guard concept doesn't come to pass and put up a roadblock to building chemistry.

Eight players on our roster have 0 or 1 year of NBA experience.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just in general, as a long time Suns fan, when was the last time our center was way better than our PG? Like never?

Never in my recollection.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Alvan Adams until probably DJ? But we've never had an Ayton.

Even though he manned the position I can never really think of Adams as a center. We just played three forwards.

 

[BC867]

Even though he manned the position I can never really think of Adams as a center. We just played three forwards.

Even worse, more like a Shooting Guard on offense. He stationed himself at the top of the key on every play.

For his career he averaged 5.0 defensive and 2.0 offensive rebounds per game. There have been Point Guard who have done better.

And defensively, although he tried to play Center, his skinny arms and frame were no match for a traditional Center or Power Forward.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Even worse, more like a Shooting Guard on offense. He stationed himself at the top of the key on every play.

For his career he averaged 5.0 defensive and 2.0 offensive rebounds per game. There have been Point Guard who have done better.

And defensively, although he tried to play Center, his skinny arms and frame were no match for a traditional Center or Power Forward.

I just don't think that's at all accurate BC. I know you don't like him but he never, NEVER played the game like a shooting guard on either end of the court. He banged down low with Issel and Cowens and all the other bigs. And yes, he was stationed just above the free throw line on offense but that was the offense we chose to run. It's not like he was floating out there nor was he taking 18 foot jumpers.

He won rookie of the year, as a center, and until he started wearing down he averaged probably 17 points per game, with 8.5 rebounds, close to 5 assists with a block and a steal. He was highly regarded around the league, if not on this board. Yes, he wore down at a fairly young age. And he played less and less like a center as his body wore down after 5 or 6 years of banging with players bigger and stronger than him. But still, he played the game like a center until he couldn't match them any longer (roughly 1981). We kept bringing in big men in attempt to move him to the 4 but he outplayed all of them during his prime.

 

[Mainstreet]

Even worse, more like a Shooting Guard on offense. He stationed himself at the top of the key on every play.

For his career he averaged 5.0 defensive and 2.0 offensive rebounds per game. There have been Point Guard who have done better.

And defensively, although he tried to play Center, his skinny arms and frame were no match for a traditional Center or Power Forward.

The Suns took advantage of Adams skills to run a high post offense. He would fit into today's modern NBA quite well. Can't fault Adams for playing center when the Suns needed one.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Alvan Adams was one of the best passing centers of all time in an era when passing for centers was an important commodity--even Wilt was a great passer. The high post offense was a very effective use of those skills.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm not saying it's something that won't get better but I think the lack of effort can be explained by the "culture of losing" we established.

A lot of these guys are used to getting blown out and somewhat expect it.

But it's something a half decent run of wins would cure.

 

[JustWinBaby]

I'm not saying it's something that won't get better but I think the lack of effort can be explained by the "culture of losing" we established.

A lot of these guys are used to getting blown out and somewhat expect it.

But it's something a half decent run of wins would cure.

My problem is that I see no real leader in the clubhouse. Hopefully Booker or Ayton become legit leaders.


What bugs be about this team is Josh Jackson and I was glad we drafted him like most Suns Fans. However Josh thinks he is the/a leader for this team. He just needs to shut his yap and work on his game. I am getting real tired of him jacking up brick after brick. Does anyone think that he should be allowed to take more shots in any game than Booker or Ayton? He seems to think or he at least acts like he is our savior. At this point he needs to play defense and share the ball. Leave the shooting to others, until he can make some shots.

I guess when you are playing with the likes of any of our point guards or Bender he feels he is a super star and I guess in that evaluation he is.

I am looking forward to seeing what Ayton can do for us but quite frankly not much else. My expectations may be lower than even last year and I don't know why. We appear to have an improved roster. Something is just not right.

 

[Phrazbit]

My problem is that I see no real leader in the clubhouse. Hopefully Booker or Ayton become legit leaders.


What bugs be about this team is Josh Jackson and I was glad we drafted him like most Suns Fans. However Josh thinks he is the/a leader for this team. He just needs to shut his yap and work on his game. I am getting real tired of him jacking up brick after brick. Does anyone think that he should be allowed to take more shots in any game than Booker or Ayton? He seems to think or he at least acts like he is our savior. At this point he needs to play defense and share the ball. Leave the shooting to others, until he can make some shots.

I guess when you are playing with the likes of any of our point guards or Bender he feels he is a super star and I guess in that evaluation he is.

I am looking forward to seeing what Ayton can do for us but quite frankly not much else. My expectations may be lower than even last year and I don't know why. We appear to have an improved roster. Something is just not right.

The roster is improved but we're carrying too many players that flat out cannot contribute.

Bender, King, Reed, Harrison, Okobo, Melton, Canaan, Daniels and arguably Chandler... all guys that probably wouldn't see more than 9th man minutes on a lot of teams.

The Sixers had a similar look to their roster 2 years ago, that season had a lot of ups and downs but they also got blessed by contributors that no one expected, like Covington and McConnell (I'm a hardcore Arizona fan and I figured McConnell would be somewhere as an assistant coach right now). McD needs to hope he's got some hidden gems on the roster or that JJ or Bridges grow up really fast because as even if Booker and Ayton play at a near all star level, that won't add up to more than 30ish wins if they're dragging a roster that is 2/3rds dead weight.

 

[Hoop Head]

My problem is that I see no real leader in the clubhouse. Hopefully Booker or Ayton become legit leaders.


What bugs be about this team is Josh Jackson and I was glad we drafted him like most Suns Fans. However Josh thinks he is the/a leader for this team. He just needs to shut his yap and work on his game. I am getting real tired of him jacking up brick after brick. Does anyone think that he should be allowed to take more shots in any game than Booker or Ayton? He seems to think or he at least acts like he is our savior. At this point he needs to play defense and share the ball. Leave the shooting to others, until he can make some shots.

I guess when you are playing with the likes of any of our point guards or Bender he feels he is a super star and I guess in that evaluation he is.

I am looking forward to seeing what Ayton can do for us but quite frankly not much else. My expectations may be lower than even last year and I don't know why. We appear to have an improved roster. Something is just not right.

I like this take but of course I'm not a fan of it either. I agree with what you said and like how you described some of the issues. If only Ayton or Booker had Jackson's gumption to try and take over and be a leader for this team then we would probably be in a better spot right now. Maybe Booker not being able to play has kept him from speaking up too much but it's clear to everyone except himself that this is his team and he needs to be holding guys accountable. If he can't do that, the extension will look worse. He's a good player, not quite great, but he can get there. When you're paying a guy like him max money off of a rookie deal though that places the franchise in his hands in a way and he needs to step up and lead these guys. Everyone else seems to respect him so it's time he takes charge because without a vocal leader on and off the court that isn't a washed up veteran or a coach, the Suns are going to struggle.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

One of the issues that Eddie House mentioned during the game is something that I heard yesterday as well during one of the football games. Too much thinking going on. Pro sports is instinctive and reactionary. No time for thinking. Coach is still new, most of the players still new (whether rookie, 2nd year, trade, etc), scheme still new, and so on. I think it will still take a while longer for things to fit like a comfortable shoe...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not saying it's something that won't get better but I think the lack of effort can be explained by the "culture of losing" we established.

A lot of these guys are used to getting blown out and somewhat expect it.

But it's something a half decent run of wins would cure.

Bridges, okobo, Ayton, Anderson, Melton, ariza and Holmes all weren’t here last year. That’s half the roster that wasn’t a part of the culture of losing. You guys overblow that concept. This is youth. All bad teams had this “culture of losing” before they turned it around. And they turned it around due to talent.

 

[95pro]

Bridges, okobo, Ayton, Anderson, Melton, ariza and Holmes all weren’t here last year. That’s half the roster that wasn’t a part of the culture of losing. You guys overblow that concept. This is youth. All bad teams had this “culture of losing” before they turned it around. And they turned it around due to talent.

And new coach. He isn't used to losing lately coming from a playoff team.