Trail Blazers @ Suns

[Phrazbit]

http://arizonasports.com/41/1751250...Bledsoe-still-wants-the-max-from-Phoenix-Suns

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Chris Broussard✔@Chris_Broussard
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Sources: Suns offered Eric Bledsoe 4-year, $48 million contract. Bledsoe wants max of 5 years, $80 million. Sides far apart
3:25 PM - 17 Jul 2014

1,091 Retweets 417 favorites



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And, it terms of guaranteed money, Bledsoe ranks at the top with respect to guards.

Its a contract negotiation... not a quote. So, Dragic has already made it clear he is opting out of his contract this summer, and that was obviously going to happen even before this season's supposed disgruntledness came about. Should we take this development as him being disloyal and a selfish miser?

... or should we just say "its a contract negotiation" and accept that he, Bledsoe and anyone else in their shoes would be doing the same thing.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Its a contract negotiation... not a quote. So, Dragic has already made it clear he is opting out of his contract this summer, and that was obviously going to happen even before this season's supposed disgruntledness came about. Should we take this development as him being disloyal and a selfish miser?

... or should we just say "its a contract negotiation" and accept that he, Bledsoe and anyone else in their shoes would be doing the same thing.

We'll see how the Dragic situation plays out... Bledsoe was offered an extremely fair deal, snubbed and it and held out to the very end expecting to get a max deal. If Dragic does the same, then absolutely I would toss him in the same bucket... unless of course he actually plays up to the level he believes he's worth - which is not the case with Bledsoe.

 

[slinslin]

http://arizonasports.com/41/1751250...Bledsoe-still-wants-the-max-from-Phoenix-Suns

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Chris Broussard ✔ @Chris_Broussard
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Sources: Suns offered Eric Bledsoe 4-year, $48 million contract. Bledsoe wants max of 5 years, $80 million. Sides far apart
3:25 PM - 17 Jul 2014

1,091 Retweets 417 favorites



​

And, it terms of guaranteed money, Bledsoe ranks at the top with respect to guards.

and once again guaranteed money means nothing, only his average salary matters and that is not even close to the top.

Not to mention Bledsoe is a premier guard in the league and expected to get BETTER still.

Nowhere can I find a quote from Bledsoe where he says that
a) he already thinks of himself as a top 5 guard in the league
b) even if he did that somehow meants that he is full of himself and does not work hark anymore which you seem to suggest

And lastly CHRIS BROUSSARD. A quote from Mickey Mouse would be more meaningful.

 

[slinslin]

I'm right there with you. I also dislike Bledsoe for holding the Suns hostage last summer, over-valuing himself after a 1/2 season of good basketball & demanding a max contract. I'm not happy that the Suns have taken the ball out of Dragic's hands... forcing him into a reduced role & playing out of position. Dragic's clearly not happy with it either and I don't expect him back on the Suns next year. This is a 3rd team all-NBA player last season that actually WANTED to play for the Suns & wasn't just all about the money like Bledsoe & we're driving him away.

If you believe that the "Suns have taken the ball out of Dragic's hand" then that is insane.

Hornacek is certainly not coaching this way or encouraging Dragic to be passive. It is on Dragic to demand the ball. Unfortunately he is struggling to be effective without Channing Frye and the PNR.

 

[82CardsGrad]

and once again guaranteed money means nothing, only his average salary matters and that is not even close to the top.

Not to mention Bledsoe is a premier guard in the league and expected to get BETTER still.

Nowhere can I find a quote from Bledsoe where he says that
a) he already thinks of himself as a top 5 guard in the league
b) even if he did that somehow meants that he is full of himself and does not work hark anymore which you seem to suggest

And lastly CHRIS BROUSSARD. A quote from Mickey Mouse would be more meaningful.

We'll have to agree to disagree... As for me, thus far this season, I believe Bledsoe has underperformed in relation to his contract, as well as his own view of himself. Worse, I am seriously concerned about what is left in terms of room for improvement. Perhaps he can cut down on his TO's. And maybe, if we're lucky, he can become more of a reliable force in the 4th quarter. However, I really don't see him as being anything more than a 17 PPG, 6/7 APG player... Nice. But by no means great...

 

[slinslin]

We'll see how the Dragic situation plays out... Bledsoe was offered an extremely fair deal, snubbed and it and held out to the very end expecting to get a max deal. If Dragic does the same, then absolutely I would toss him in the same bucket... unless of course he actually plays up to the level he believes he's worth - which is not the case with Bledsoe.

That is your opinion of fair. Obviously the Suns later agreed that the deal they signed in the end was fair too.

If Bledsoe was not a restricted FA there would have never been a discussion but just like Bledsoe the Suns held out as much as they could to lower his price too and use RFA to their advantage.

 

[slinslin]

We'll have to agree to disagree... As for me, thus far this season, I believe Bledsoe has underperformed in relation to his contract, as well as his own view of himself. Worse, I am seriously concerned about what is left in terms of room for improvement. Perhaps he can cut down on his TO's. And maybe, if we're lucky, he can become more of a reliable force in the 4th quarter. However, I really don't see him as being anything more than a 17 PPG, 6/7 APG player... Nice. But by no means great...

ok I am done talking to you man you obviously only believe what you want to. Objectivity is clearly not your forte.

Plus you must be a pretty good mentalist since you know Bledsoe so well.

Besides Bledsoe is averaging about 18+/6+/6+ along with 2 steals and almost a block per game since december on top of being one of the best 5 defenders at his position, one of the best clutch performer statistically this season and that at 25 years old with limited starter experience.

That is pretty freaking great and if you think that 13M$ is overpaid by NBA terms then you are clearly out of touch.

 

[82CardsGrad]

ok I am done talking to you man you obviously only believe what you want to. Objectivity is clearly not your forte.

Plus you must be a pretty good mentalist since you know Bledsoe so well.

Besides Bledsoe is averaging about 18+/6+/6+ along with 2 steals and almost a block per game since december on top of being one of the best 5 defenders at his position, one of the best clutch performer statistically this season and that at 25 years old with limited starter experience.

That is pretty freaking great and if you think that 13M$ is overpaid by NBA terms then you are clearly out of touch.

Last I checked, he's the 13th ranked PG averaging 16.9 ppg. He's the 16th ranked PG averaging 5.9. Along with a 1.89 Assist/TO ratio...
Great? Really??

 

[Phrazbit]

Last I checked, he's the 13th ranked PG averaging 16.9 ppg. He's the 16th ranked PG averaging 5.9. Along with a 1.89 Assist/TO ratio...
Great? Really??

Well, when you factor in that he is dramatically better defensively than every guy ahead of him on the scoring side with maaaybe the exception of Lowry, then yes, its a pretty good deal.

Furthermore, outside of Jeff Teague and guys on their rookie deals, all those guys ahead of him in scoring make roughly the same amount (or more) per year than Bledsoe.

So yes, his contract is perfectly fine given his level of play.

 

[slinslin]

Last I checked, he's the 13th ranked PG averaging 16.9 ppg. He's the 16th ranked PG averaging 5.9. Along with a 1.89 Assist/TO ratio...
Great? Really??

On a team without shooters and sharing the ball more than most PG you expect him to average more assists which is laughable really.

He also only plays 33mpg.

And as I pointed out for the last 3 months he is averaging 18+ 6+ 6+ he just had a bad november when this team struggled with their roles.

Basing your argument on how he ranks in PPG compared to other PGs shows how weak it is.

He is also 6th best in defensive RPM. 8th in WAR. 11th in RPM.

He leads the team in simple rating. He outperforms his matchup on average 20.6 to 13.6 in terms of production.

And btw he is #14 among PGs in APG not #16.

He is also 12th in Winshares among all guards.

Oh and yeah he is doing all that playing just 33mpg and a usage rate of only 23.7 which is BARELY even higher than the usage rate of Goran Dragic who you complain has to play so much off the ball.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well, when you factor in that he is dramatically better defensively than every guy ahead of him on the scoring side with maaaybe the exception of Lowry, then yes, its a pretty good deal.

Furthermore, outside of Jeff Teague and guys on their rookie deals, all those guys ahead of him in scoring make roughly the same amount (or more) per year than Bledsoe.

So yes, his contract is perfectly fine given his level of play.

On a team without shooters and sharing the ball more than most PG you expect him to average more assists which is laughable really.

He also only plays 33mpg.

And as I pointed out for the last 3 months he is averaging 18+ 6+ 6+ he just had a bad november when this team struggled with their roles.

Basing your argument on how he ranks in PPG compared to other PGs shows how weak it is.

He is also 6th best in defensive RPM. 8th in WAR. 11th in RPM.

He leads the team in simple rating. He outperforms his matchup on average 20.6 to 13.6 in terms of production.

And btw he is #14 among PGs in APG not #16.

He is also 12th in Winshares among all guards.

Oh and yeah he is doing all that playing just 33mpg and a usage rate of only 23.7 which is BARELY even higher than the usage rate of Goran Dragic who you complain has to play so much off the ball.

So if I'm getting the vibe right from you guys, you are either ecstatic with his play, and/or, you are expecting him to show great improvement and development. If it's the latter - where do you see his numbers next year, or 2 years from now?

 

[sunsfan88]

I wasn't a Bledsoe fan (at his contract) in the beginnong of the year because he was dogging it quite a bit imo but he's come far quite a bit. He's one of my favorite players on the team now. He's brought it consistently effort wise as well which was my biggest things.

Now he just needs to cut down on his turnovers and drastically improve his assist/turnover ratio.

 

[GatorAZ]

None of the Suns PG's are great decision makers and that hurts the team late in games. Out of all three I'm not sure which one is the purest PG. Everyone says the Suns are hoarding PG's when it's more of a combo guard trio.

 

[devilalum]

I am not bothered by the number of Bledsoe's turnovers as much as the type.

Some PGs turn the ball over trying to make difficult passes. Over and over Bledsoe dribbles into impossible situations and has the ball taken away.

I'd like to see him be a little more conservative offensively. How many times a game does he drive into the key with no idea of what he's going to do with the ball?

 

[BC867]

None of the Suns PG's are great decision makers and that hurts the team late in games. Out of all three I'm not sure which one is the purest PG. Everyone says the Suns are hoarding PG's when it's more of a combo guard trio.

I am not bothered by the number of Bledsoe's turnovers as much as the type.

Some PGs turn the ball over trying to make difficult passes. Over and over Bledsoe dribbles into impossible situations and has the ball taken away.

You have both summed it up. No one is running the offense on the court and Hornacek can't from the bench. And neither are any of them a pure shooting Wing. It is basically every man for himself.

The only exception would be a superstar and none of our three lead Guards are superstars.

Three "1 1/2"'s are not as good as a solid "1" and a solid "2" side-by-side combo playing opponents at their natural positions.

 

[AzStevenCal]

What else can it be? They turned him into a p#ssy finesse player while before he was an above the rim power center.

I don't believe our coaches turned him into a weak player but you're right, I went back and read some of my comments about him last December and he was much more of an above-the-rim player.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

You have both summed it up. No one is running the offense on the court and Hornacek can't from the bench. And neither are any of them a pure shooting Wing. It is basically every man for himself.

The only exception would be a superstar and none of our three lead Guards are superstars.

Three "1 1/2"'s are not as good as a solid "1" and a solid "2" side-by-side combo playing opponents at their natural positions.

It's anazing, for nearly 8 years we didn't have to worry about anyone running the offense improperly because Nash did it admirably. I never thought we would miss Steve this much.

 

[SirStefan32]

It's anazing, for nearly 8 years we didn't have to worry about anyone running the offense improperly because Nash did it admirably. I never thought we would miss Steve this much.

It's not about missing Nash. It's about missing an actual point guard. Neither of our three PGs are point guards. Dragic is likely to closest thing we have to an actual point guard, and he has been relegated to playing the off-guard. Add to that that not a single player on other positions has any play-making capability, and you have a boring, one on one team. This team is so painful to watch that I long for days of Jason Kidd/ Cliffy Robinson pick and rolls.

I've watched some painful seasons, but this season is really the first time that I have zero interest in the Suns. I watch the first quarter, and by the end of the first quarter, I am already doing something else. By the end of the second quarter, I am not even looking at the TV. Bledsoe, IT, Green, Morris twins... all among my least favorite players in the entire NBA right now. Len is really the main reason to watch, and I do like Tucker and Dragic. Outside of them and the players that don't get to play (Warren, Goodwin, Ennis), I have no interest in this team.

 

[sunsfan88]

It's not about missing Nash. It's about missing an actual point guard. Neither of our three PGs are point guards. Dragic is likely to closest thing we have to an actual point guard, and he has been relegated to playing the off-guard. Add to that that not a single player on other positions has any play-making capability, and you have a boring, one on one team. This team is so painful to watch that I long for days of Jason Kidd/ Cliffy Robinson pick and rolls.

I've watched some painful seasons, but this season is really the first time that I have zero interest in the Suns. I watch the first quarter, and by the end of the first quarter, I am already doing something else. By the end of the second quarter, I am not even looking at the TV. Bledsoe, IT, Green, Morris twins... all among my least favorite players in the entire NBA right now. Len is really the main reason to watch, and I do like Tucker and Dragic. Outside of them and the players that don't get to play (Warren, Goodwin, Ennis), I have no interest in this team.

That's how I am as well. Dragic, Len and Bledsoe who is starting to grow on me are the ones I actually like watching out of players who gets minutes.

If Goodwin, Ennis, Warren and/or Bullock started getting minutes, I bet a lot more fans would actually start caring more about the team because they would want to see what these youngsters have.

 

[BC867]

That's how I am as well. Dragic, Len and Bledsoe who is starting to grow on me are the ones I actually like watching out of players who gets minutes.

If Goodwin, Ennis, Warren and/or Bullock started getting minutes, I bet a lot more fans would actually start caring more about the team because they would want to see what these youngsters have.

I agree! Since coming off my vacation week, I no longer have the games on from bell to bell.

If I see that the game is close, I'll watch the 4th quarter, but even that is painful now that the league has reacted to the 3 Point Guard closing lineup, especially against marginal and good teams.

 

[sunsfan88]

I agree! Since coming off my vacation week, I no longer have the games on from bell to bell.

If I see that the game is close, I'll watch the 4th quarter, but even that is painful now that the league has reacted to the 3 Point Guard closing lineup, especially against marginal and good teams.

Oh I especially don't watch if the score is close in the 4th QTR cause I know that's basically an automatic loss. I think the Suns record in close games is like 2-10 this season with one of those wins against worst in the conference Minnesota.