Trevor Ariza to Washington for Kelly Oubre and Austin Rivers.

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Is he really legit young talent?

Yes I know physically he is elite. That really doesn't matter if he consistently plays stupid.

I will admit I am losing patience with him. Most of his mistakes should be easily fixable, but he is not fixing them.

Yes he is legit young talent...

He has everything that you could physically need to be a very good player (minus shooting of course, but there are plenty of good players in the league who can't shoot). The things that young players tend to be lacking more than anything is decision making and that is JJ's issue. I think it is just silly to assume that a guy that is in just his 2nd season will never figure the game out mentally.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

I’m kind of getting excited too. He’s seasoned so he should have an impact right away. He’ll keep defenders honest which means better shots from the other guys.

And I like Oubre too on the suns. We are missing a bit of size/length.

Honestly, pairing Rivers with point Booker is not a bad fit. The upside is capped, but Rivers is a decent fit, as he can take tougher defensive assignment, and can allow Booker to run off screens, actions, ect, because he is a threat to attack.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Yes he is legit young talent...

He has everything that you could physically need to be a very good player (minus shooting of course, but there are plenty of good players in the league who can't shoot). The things that young players tend to be lacking more than anything is decision making and that is JJ's issue. I think it is just silly to assume that a guy that is in just his 2nd season will never figure the game out mentally.

I know I said it here in the summer, but Jackson should be playing the 4, or developing to that position. Take away some of his creation responsibilities and see if he can tighten up his game playing up a position.

For reference, he played 83% of his minutes last year at SF, and 81% this year. With Ariza gone, I would hope he can play there a bit more, but that also would depend on what the Suns decide to do with Oubre.

 

[jlove]

So they will have until Wednesday morning.

Technically, Ariza is still on the Suns and Rivers/Oubre on the Wizards till tomorrow when the trade can be called into the league offices.

As of tomorrow, the Suns can trade Rivers or Oubre individually at any time. They just can't package either of them together or with any other players for 60 days following the call tomorrow.

Theoretically, until the call to the league offices tomorrow, if the Suns were working the phones, they could find other teams to get in on the trade for more player swaps since the trade has only been agreed upon.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Is he really legit young talent?

Yes I know physically he is elite. That really doesn't matter if he consistently plays stupid.

I will admit I am losing patience with him. Most of his mistakes should be easily fixable, but he is not fixing them.

Who knows, but we might as well assume he is until he proves he isn't. He gives great effort and does a lot of positive things that don't show up in the stats. That doesn't make up for the poor shooting and poor decisions but given that he's starred at every level, I see no value in giving up on him now. We don't have a pressing need for the roster spot or the cap space he's taking up and we're not going to the playoffs this season so developing him should still be a priority.

 

[Finito]

JJ is a stud talent but you also have to understand in less than a year and a half he's had 3 head coaches.

The Suns need to develop talent it doesn't always fall on the players. JJ looks like he has the talent and the hunger now he just needs to learn to play within himself. I'd rather have JJ going 100mph than Bender who has all the talent and no drive or confidence

 

[Proximo]

Who knows, but we might as well assume he is until he proves he isn't. He gives great effort and does a lot of positive things that don't show up in the stats. That doesn't make up for the poor shooting and poor decisions but given that he's starred at every level, I see no value in giving up on him now. We don't have a pressing need for the roster spot or the cap space he's taking up and we're not going to the playoffs this season so developing him should still be a priority.

If we do keep Oubre, I expect him to take Jackson’s minutes, because he has been the better player.

At the end of the season the decision will have to be made between the two as to which to keep.

He is running out of time to prove his worth.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Another thought is that they should be trying to add several NBA-level players to the roster instead of trying to get a huge star. Booker is a star, I am confident Ayton will be one as well, Warren is already a solid player, especially with his new-found three-point shot, and Bridges will be a solid role-player at the very least. I am quite happy with the core they have. Outside the point guard issue, their biggest weakness is their lack of depth. After Crawford and Holmes, their bench really has no NBA talent.

See I don’t agree with this. Particularly after adding rivers and oubre. That means the bench team is likely:

Melton
Crawford
Oubre
JJ
Holmes

That should be an excellent energy team. All four rooks are going to be up and down, but they are definitely developing into legit nba players. Even Melton for a second line player. Crawford and Holmes, in my opinion, are actually net plus bench players. And oubre and JJ are athletic with upside. If one or the other has a good game every game we are going to be difficult to contend with on our bench. It is going to take take to work rivers and oubre into the flow as they are new. But we were given a glimpse into upside with books return. Added depth should give us some interesting insight into what this collection of youth may be capable of.

 

[Proximo]

JJ is a stud talent but you also have to understand in less than a year and a half he's had 3 head coaches.

The Suns need to develop talent it doesn't always fall on the players. JJ looks like he has the talent and the hunger now he just needs to learn to play within himself. I'd rather have JJ going 100mph than Bender who has all the talent and no drive or confidence

I get what you are saying. Jackson cares and is aggressive, which means he may get better.

But he has to be really stupid. There is no other reason he would continue to do the same stuff over and over that never works and expect a different result.

I am not talking about his terrible jumper, I can forgive most of those.

I’m talking about his idiotic turnovers and insistence on driving uncontrollably and missing layups at 55 miles an hour.

Surely the coaches have told him to stop that, probably hundreds of times, but he is still doing it. At some point you just have to accept a guy is uncoachable.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is a link to a great article about Oubre with video.

In some ways he reminds me a bit of Josh Jackson.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1771...e-great-return-for-suns-restarts-wing-logjam/

 

[Mainstreet]

It seems David Aldridge thinks there is a market for Oubre if the Suns decide to move him.

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[Mr. Boldin]

Would imagine the Pelicans would be very interested.

Frank Jackson would make some sense, but doesn't help much at all this season. Although I would think they would rather deal their #1 this year and Tim Frazier.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If we do keep Oubre, I expect him to take Jackson’s minutes, because he has been the better player.

At the end of the season the decision will have to be made between the two as to which to keep.

He is running out of time to prove his worth.

It's Jackson's 2nd season in the NBA and I'd say last year Josh was arguably better overall than Oubre in his first 2 seasons. And I don't think Josh is all that close to "running out of time to prove his worth" given that he's just 2 months into his 2nd season. IMO he has this year and at a minimum, next year to start trending positively. Unless there's some chemistry issues or off court stuff, I'd even consider giving him his 4th and maybe even 5th year before setting him free.

 

[Rab]

I’m not ready to give up on JJ. He needs a role. You put him on a team where there isn’t pressure to score, and he’d excel. There aren’t a lot of options on this team for scoring right now, especially when either Book or Warren are out. JJ I feel puts too much pressure on himself to live up to 4th overall pick status and pick up the slack when others are down. If Book can stay healthy and Warren can stay consistent in scoring, JJ can play a role which he is suited for. Hustle, steals, blocks, and fast break scoring. Man if he could slide into that role, the combination of he and Bridges can do some damage and you could always have one of them on the floor. That’s where he’s valuable. I don’t care if he only scored 8-10 ppg as long as he’s bringing energy and intangibles. He’s got work to do to get there but unless you can get something back that immediately fills a need, you hang on to JJ.


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[1Sun]

Honestly, pairing Rivers with point Booker is not a bad fit. The upside is capped, but Rivers is a decent fit, as he can take tougher defensive assignment, and can allow Booker to run off screens, actions, ect, because he is a threat to attack.

Of course, that would require Rivers passing/distributing instead of jacking up a bunch of bad shots, and thus far Rivers has been far more prone to the latter...

 

[1Sun]

I get what you are saying. Jackson cares and is aggressive, which means he may get better.

But he has to be really stupid. There is no other reason he would continue to do the same stuff over and over that never works and expect a different result.

I am not talking about his terrible jumper, I can forgive most of those.

I’m talking about his idiotic turnovers and insistence on driving uncontrollably and missing layups at 55 miles an hour.

Surely the coaches have told him to stop that, probably hundreds of times, but he is still doing it. At some point you just have to accept a guy is uncoachable.

Unless, of course, the coach is just a lousy communicator and unable to put together even the simplest of messages and directions, which we all know was the case with Watson, and which sure as heck seems to be the case with Kokoskov.

 

[1Sun]

Would imagine the Pelicans would be very interested.

Frank Jackson would make some sense, but doesn't help much at all this season. Although I would think they would rather deal their #1 this year and Tim Frazier.

Neither is worth giving up Oubre. That would be like the dreck we were going to get from Memphis. No, thanks.

 

[Folster]

If we do keep Oubre, I expect him to take Jackson’s minutes, because he has been the better player.

At the end of the season the decision will have to be made between the two as to which to keep.

He is running out of time to prove his worth.

I don't get all of the concern about playing time at the wing. We had 4 wings before the trade getting minutes between Ariza, Warren, Bridges, and Jackson. Now we've swapped out Ariza for Oubre. There's still the same amount of minutes for the same number of players.

 

[devilalum]

I don't get all of the concern about playing time at the wing. We had 4 wings before the trade getting minutes between Ariza, Warren, Bridges, and Jackson. Now we've swapped out Ariza for Oubre. There's still the same amount of minutes for the same number of players.

You’re right but the Suns said Ariza was going to play the 4 and he’s taller than any of our wings. Of course that was crap. Ariza’s a small forward.


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[Folster]

You’re right but the Suns said Ariza was going to play the 4 and he’s taller than any of our wings. Of course that was crap. Ariza’s a small forward.


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It's hard to stop thinking about our roster in the context of traditional positions.

Most teams including us are playing 2 guards or ballhandlers, 2 wings, and one big man.

96 minutes at guard to split between Booker, Rivers, Crawford, and Melton.

96 minutes at the wings to split between Warren, Bridges, Oubre, and Jackson.

48 minutes to split between Ayton and Holmes.

 

[devilalum]

It's hard to stop thinking about our roster in the context of traditional positions.

Most teams including us are playing 2 guards or ballhandlers, 2 wings, and one big man.

96 minutes at guard to split between Booker, Rivers, Crawford, and Melton.

96 minutes at the wings to split between Warren, Bridges, Oubre, and Jackson.

48 minutes to split between Ayton and Holmes.

And Bridges and Jackson have both spent time at guard.


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[Mr. Boldin]

Of course, that would require Rivers passing/distributing instead of jacking up a bunch of bad shots, and thus far Rivers has been far more prone to the latter...

Yeah, these have to be set plays.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Neither is worth giving up Oubre. That would be like the dreck we were going to get from Memphis. No, thanks.

I like Oubre, but I'm not sure he's the piece they should decide to pay. I guess we really wouldn't know until he signs an offer sheet this summer and we see what the cost would be. I just think he would be the most logical piece to flip for an upgrade at PG somehow.

Problem is, you are likely going to be receiving a "prospect" in return, and not a highly regarded one.

I don't see why the Suns wouldn't taret a guy like Jeremy Lin though. He could be available in Atlanta and would actually be able to help the Suns out. Obviously not for Oubre, but if the Suns can pick up Lin and another asset, the leak at PG slows a bit.

Just thinking out loud. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[1Sun]

I like Oubre, but I'm not sure he's the piece they should decide to pay. I guess we really wouldn't know until he signs an offer sheet this summer and we see what the cost would be. I just think he would be the most logical piece to flip for an upgrade at PG somehow.

Problem is, you are likely going to be receiving a "prospect" in return, and not a highly regarded one.

I don't see why the Suns wouldn't taret a guy like Jeremy Lin though. He could be available in Atlanta and would actually be able to help the Suns out. Obviously not for Oubre, but if the Suns can pick up Lin and another asset, the leak at PG slows a bit.

Just thinking out loud. Anyone have any ideas?

Because Lin is horrendous, as in G-League horrendous. I have had other posts where I have pointed out realistic point guard targets (Dragic, Rubio, Russell, Teague, McConnell, Tyus Jones, Delon Wright, Dunn, Joseph, Collison, to name a few). In my opinion, Lin is one to avoid proactively. Rivers isn't even one I have considered to be a point guard.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Because Lin is horrendous, as in G-League horrendous. I have had other posts where I have pointed out realistic point guard targets (Dragic, Rubio, Russell, Teague, McConnell, Tyus Jones, Delon Wright, Dunn, Joseph, Collison, to name a few). In my opinion, Lin is one to avoid proactively. Rivers isn't even one I have considered to be a point guard.

Completely disagree on Lin. He's been a solid player for a few years. Not to mention these rankings at PG this season:

92nd percentile points per shot attempt
90th percentile in transition frequency added on floor
84th percentile eFG%
82nd percentile shooting fouls drawn
80th percentile in point added in transition
78th percentile 2P%
76th percential AST%
60th percentile FG Dreb%
20th among PGs in ORPM
31st among PGs in RPM

His defense is suspect, but he would be a plus offensively, especially on the Suns. Joseph or Collision would be solid additions at a reasonable cost.

Tyus Jones would be a big get. McConnell would help the culture and defense, but he's a solid backup on a good team with talent.