Trevor Ariza to Washington for Kelly Oubre and Austin Rivers.

[JerkFace]

I’m just glad that I don’t have to root for Rivers now.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Most buyouts are the remaining contract less the vet minimum. Players rarely get to double dip and they certainly don't give back guaranteed money unless they know they'll get it back. The Suns took back in more salary in the trade. They may save a vet min amount with the buyout, but they'll give it right back with the empty roster spot they have to fill.

Once we have the numbers you'll see this trade will be a net increase to the Suns payroll.

Again, the $arver take is old. There are plenty of other valid criticisms.

Buyout amounts are notoriously hard to unravel because the cap keeps the same hold as the original contract despite the buyout amount. The final numbers are rarely released and when they are it's some crazy number like Derrick Rose.

What is universally agreed upon though is that buyouts save the owner money otherwise they are just waivers.

Here is just the example from last year's buyout. Greg Monroe still displays his full cap hold last year.

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/phoenix_suns/2017-2018/

Almost all examples I can find of a buyout of a player making over 10 million are significant because like Monroe they sign for somewhere in the range of the mid level with another team. Monroe signed for 5 million btw.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

The difference between a buyout and a waiver is a waiver is guaranteed for the full deal. A buyout is where both parties agree the player takes less money

So yes by using the term "buyout" he gave back money

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Trust me, i know the difference. Woj said the Suns waived him. That's my point.

 

[Evil Ash]

If you are looking at the end of this trade, where the Suns ended up with NEITHER player they initially agreed upon and still did the deal and think it was about basketball...

You are doing some incredible mental gymnastics to try to feel better about the way things are.

And you can tell me that you think this move didn't matter or it was addition by subtraction and I will say again then this isn't about the product on the basketball court.

If it was then you make a move where you actually get some asset beyond this year or you make the subtraction earlier despite the money.

The people that did mental gymnastics were the ones thought Ariza had any real trade value. He did and does not as a role player on the wrong side of 30 with a giant expiring contract.

It was largely a crap for crap trade even before it was changed. The only thing that really changed is that Oubre may have some trade value as a 23 year old RFA that is averaging double digits off the bench.

 

[Hoop Head]

You are wrong.

The original trade was Rivers 12.6 + Selden 1.5 + Brooks 1.4. that is 15.5 million. So that trade actually cost Sarver 500K more than Ariza.

We also don't have #s on the Rivers buyout yet. He will not get a penny more than the vet's min from another team so I doubt he gave up much cash, but we will see. Now the Suns will have to sign another player that will at least be the vet's min. So where is all of this money that Sarver is saving?

The $arver take is tired.

The Suns won't need to sign on another player. After the Ariza trade we were at 15 roster spots, since we traded Ariza for 2 players, and now we're back down to 14 again, which is fine and the level a team must stay at, or above, according to the CBA. Since we signed Moreland before the Ariza trade getting us up to 14 originally there are no changes that need to be made. I think we will look to add another player but I'm not sure who that would be or when.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wow! Shocking. I guess he was just salary match.

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I am shocked with that one too.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

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Trust me, i know the difference. Woj said the Suns waived him. That's my point.

Yeah he changed his tweet. Initially it was Buyout.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251952/Suns-Agree-To-Buyout-Of-Austin-Rivers

Then it was waived.

Now it's

After trade with Wizards, Suns agree to part ways with G Austin Rivers, per ESPN sources.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Yeah he changed his tweet. Initially it was Buyout.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251952/Suns-Agree-To-Buyout-Of-Austin-Rivers

Then it was waived.

Now it's

Gotcha, he does state that Rivers is on waivers in that article too.

Once Rivers, 26, clears waivers, Rivers will become an unrestricted free agent. He's earning $12.6 million this season. Although there have been conversations with teams on potential destinations, Rivers doesn't appear to have an imminent decision on his next stop, sources said.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Gotcha, he does state that Rivers is on waivers in that article too.

Maybe it's waived and I am pissed off again for the wrong reasons.

My guess is that neither has the whole picture.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just surprised. I thought Rivers was going to have a chance to contribute here. He somewhat filled a need even if it was a backup two. Who knows what went on behind the scenes. He could have asked to be waived. I got nothing really.

 

[Phrazbit]

Just surprised. I thought Rivers was going to have a chance to contribute here. He somewhat filled a need even if it was a backup two. Who knows what went on behind the scenes. He could have asked to be waived. I got nothing really.

IMO the trade was entirely about Ariza. Ariza was coasting while earning 15 million, Sarver has never been the patient type and was probably fuming that the big money signing of the summer was a bust and wanted him gone, ASAP.

In the end Ariza was exactly what the Suns didn't want. They wanted a scrapper who would show the other guys how to hustle, instead they got a guy who seemed relieved to finally get a big paycheck and content to coast on a bad team.

 

[sunsfan88]

I hope LeBron signs Rivers to the Lakers. Would be fun to see him playing in the purple and gold in the same city across from his father.

 

[Yuma]

Arizona Sports has the story also. Originally, we weren't getting Oubre in the deal, it was mostly for Rivers? Now he won't even be on the team? No trading him (if there's even a market)?

 

[Yuma]

He hasn't sucked for a year and a half. He was quite good last year, but it did take some time for things to click last season. He ended up making the All-Rookie 2nd team because of his play in the 2nd half of last season. After Triano benched him in late December or early January though that was all it took for Jackson to start showing why he was picked #4. He has taken a step back but that isn't unheard of or that unusual for a 2nd year player. Last season though can not be counted in this "a year and a half in the league".

He isn't the exception, he's normal for the most part. A lot of rookies and sophomores will stumble in year 2 for various reasons. If he's not showing more in January and February then we can worry. Labeling him a bust and deciding to ignore half of last season is ridiculous. If he finishes the year how he's started it then I'll be worried. Until then, enjoy the other players.

The Sophomore Slump is a thing in the NBA. Lots of guys have difficulty in their second years. It's well known.

 

[Yuma]

Oubre was always the best player in this trade. I just figured they wanted both, but they might have wanted both and maybe Rivers didn't want us.

I am thinking Rivers was refusing to report. So instead of the Suns scraping the deal and starting all over again, they figure Oubre was the only one with value anyway. That's my guess.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Arizona Sports has the story also. Originally, we weren't getting Oubre in the deal, it was mostly for Rivers? Now he won't even be on the team? No trading him (if there's even a market)?

The original deal was mostly for Dillon Brooks. Rivers was salary filler in both deals.

The market for Rivers was Ernie Grunfeld. Once even he realized how bad he was, no GM left is bad enough to take him on at that salary, even for half a year.

 

[slinslin]

I am thinking Rivers was refusing to report. So instead of the Suns scraping the deal and starting all over again, they figure Oubre was the only one with value anyway. That's my guess.

they never wanted Rivers

No sane NBA team wants Austin Rivers.

 

[slinslin]

If you are looking at the end of this trade, where the Suns ended up with NEITHER player they initially agreed upon and still did the deal and think it was about basketball...

You are doing some incredible mental gymnastics to try to feel better about the way things are.

And you can tell me that you think this move didn't matter or it was addition by subtraction and I will say again then this isn't about the product on the basketball court.

If it was then you make a move where you actually get some asset beyond this year or you make the subtraction earlier despite the money.

this is wrong

In the original deal Memphis gave Washington 2nd round picks.

It is a combination of things, the Suns would probably rather have had Dillon Brooks since his rookie contract goes on longer and Washington might have initially not been willing to trade Oubre and Rivers for Ariza either since they were trying to get 2nd round picks on top of Ariza by involving Memphis.

In the final deal it was Washington who took the loss, not the Suns.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

he was still an asset. No one was putting a gun to their head to make a trade THE SECOND the lock struck midnigh-- forget it.

and if he was useless and toxic, that is a BIG black mark on the Coach who wanted him as our number 1 priority. And that ain't Igor derangement syndrome BS. That's just fact that he had a hand in blowing all our cap room on a guy who was toxic and pointless on the team.

I had never researched this, so I did a (very) little poking around and found this (https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/...r-to-phoenix-suns-roster-nba-free-agency-news):

"During the interview process with new head coach Igor Kokoskov, General Manager Ryan McDonough said on Friday that Kokoskov mentioned Ariza was the first name he brought up for possible free agents targets. Not only Kokoskov, but James Jones just recently finished up his NBA career in 2016, admiring Ariza’s team-first mentality from a competitive distance.

“We thought back to our first meeting, first interview actually with Igor Kokoskov,” McDonough said. “Champ (James Jones) and I were in Houston actually in the middle of the Rockets-Jazz playoffs series. I think they were between games 1 and 2, and James and I flew down to Houston to meet with Igor. Over the course of a two to three hour interview, we talked about a number of topics. One of them was our desire to be aggressive in free agency and we said ‘look at our roster, who do you think the best it would be?’ And I swear the first words out of his mouth were Trevor Ariza.”

Phoenix was in desperate need of an established veteran who could provide plus shooting and defensive versatility into their system, which is the backbone of their team identity. Not only that, but McDonough and Co. seemed to value Ariza’s winning pedigree and the attitude he instills on every team he’s been a part of thus far.

Ariza has won a championship with Kobe Bryant in Los Angeles but was also most recently apart of the Rockets squad that pushed Golden State to the absolute brink. Even names like Dwight Howard and Stephon Marbury have suited up next to Ariza over his 14-year career. The Suns’ front office is hoping Ariza’s competitiveness rubs off on the entire team moving forward."


It is clear (to me) that Igor respected Ariza and his pedigree, as did McD and JJ. Koko had just finished a second-round series against him and witnessed his shooting and defense. As a first-year HC with a young roster, who wouldn't want leadership/mentorship in the ranks? I don't blame Igor/FO for the effort. The price was too high, as you mention. Ariza, for his part, didn't do any (or at most very little) of the things he was brought here to do. It didn't work out; buyer's remorse is a real thing.

 

[elindholm]

It's hard to believe how poorly written that article is. If it were submitted by a high-school freshman, I'd give it a C+.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It's hard to believe how poorly written that article is. If it were submitted by a high-school freshman, I'd give it a C+.

Well the writers there don't get paid to write. It is simply something they do on their free time. Some of the articles are well written and some of them can be pretty sloppy.

Most of the time I spend on that site is for the comment section. It might be the most active Suns site from a fan perspective.

 

[Chaplin]

What's missing in this whole silly argument is that Oubre is a better player than Brooks. Period. But nobody addresses that. He might not fill our immediate need, but he IS better.

 

[JCSunsfan]

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[1Sun]

What's missing in this whole silly argument is that Oubre is a better player than Brooks. Period. But nobody addresses that. He might not fill our immediate need, but he IS better.

At this point, Oubre is a better player than Ariza. Makes me wonder what the heck the Suns were thinking when they were about to settle for the poo-poo platter of Rivers, Brooks and Selden.

 

[JCSunsfan]

What's missing in this whole silly argument is that Oubre is a better player than Brooks. Period. But nobody addresses that. He might not fill our immediate need, but he IS better.

This is true. Washington had the most to lose with the failed trade, and they took the loss. They gave up the same players but got no picks back. The original deal had them getting two second rounders. Oubre is better than Brooks. So I will take that. I hope he really wants to be here and buys in.

We have something starting to cook here. Oubre is a legit nba player.