TV ratings a prime-time low

[Southpaw]

Again revisionist history. Joe Dumars used to ride Jordan's hip all the way around the court during the Jordan Rules days much in the same vein Bowen did to Nash this postseason. Riley's Knick teams grabbed and clutched all over the place. Michael Cooper and Scottie Pippen held opposing players using the hand-check better than any players in NBA history. The guys McHale and Parrish guarded were getting elbowed in the ribs pretty much throughout the entire game. None of those got foul calls back then.

Teams score in the seventies now because frankly they're just not as good as the the teams in the 80's and early 90's. Those teams could shoot, score, rebound, and play defense. Good luck finding a team in the NBA that can be proficient at all those in the NBA these days. Hell, you can just be good at one of those and manage to find a way into the playoffs.

Fine, whatever. This is the greatest series ever. I have no idea what this series has to do with the 80's and 90's series.

At this rate the WNBA might surpass the NBA in scoring avergae.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Back then it was more mutual and balanced. You didnt have a dirty team vs a clean team, you had two decently tough teams.

When the NBA is trying to clean up its act, yet refs reward dirty plays, it throws "revisionist theories" out the window.

 

[elindholm]

Again revisionist history. Joe Dumars used to ride Jordan's hip all the way around the court during the Jordan Rules days much in the same vein Bowen did to Nash this postseason.

That's right. The difference is that Jordan learned how to use offensive fouls to compensate. A classic example is his push-off on Russell at the end of the '98 Finals. Nash doesn't have those compensating fouls as part of his game, and he probably never will. Stoudemire has the attitude to learn them, however.

Teams score in the seventies now because frankly they're just not as good as the the teams in the 80's and early 90's.

Nonsense. The general level of physical play has definitely increased in the last 15-20 years -- just watch some "classic" replays to confirm that. What's different is that uncalled offensive and defensive fouls used to offset each other better. Now, with the advent of flopping, more offensive fouls (legitimate or otherwise) get called, so the defense -- which is permitted to go farther beyond the rules than the offense -- has the upper hand.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I agree about flopping, I think it should get the same treatment as a technical (for example: 15 flops = 1 game suspension, 7 in one postseason series = 1 game suspension) with the league going back and giving them out based on postgame footage. Raja, Manu, and co. might miss a handful of games or so the first season or two but it would be good for the integrity of the game which is fast turning into soccer.

As far as whether or not individual teams were superior then than they are now, I'll agree to dosagree in the same way we disagree that the Cavs play better when LeBron is not playing.

 

[nowagimp]

Revisionist history. Go watch a Lakers-Celtics or Pistons-Bulls game from the 80's that had much more physicality and dirty plays (which also went without suspensions) and got among the best ratings in NBA history. The ratings in the NBA suck because there's no Magic, Dr. J, Barkley, Jordan, Bird, Bad Boys, or Shaq/Kobe among the best teams in the NBA. The two best teams in the NBA have two "boring" superstars who are never in the spotlight or transcend to the casual fan. And guys like Kobe, LeBron, and Dirk have their own flaws as superstars or their teams in incapable of winning a title.

I dont think the comparison of 6' 10" Robert Horry or 6'8" bruce bowen riding Nash or Deron WIlliams at 6'3, compares at all with the little 6'3" joe dumars riding a 6'6" michael Jordan. Larger players can use hand checking to slow down smaller faster players very effectively using their greater strength/mass, but the converse is not very effective in limiting a dribble penetration. I dont think you will find in your 80's films John Salley riding Michael Jordan without a foul being called. Perhaps a better comparison would be Scottie Pippen riding John Stockton on the dribble penetration. That did happen, and it was a detriment to the game. The level of physical contact was upgraded with the bad boys, continued to rise with the riley knicks to near football levels. Its such an inferior product to football, I expect most fans will just watch football or hockey for the physical stuff. Basketball was a much better sport the way it was, with speed, agility, and athleticism being the focus of physical development, not grappling like todays musclebound "stars". But you know, thats the only way old guys like bowen, horry can play D effectively, ride and grab. Old guys are just not quick enough to play defense on the ball without grabbing, checking.

 

[azirish]

What exactly is the rule on hand checking? I could have sworn they changed it a few years ago. Did they change the rules back when I wasn't looking?

 

[Muggum]

No player gets more referee respect in the entire NBA than Bruce Bowen. By respect I mean non-calls that should be calls. His secret? He fouls you every time down the court multiple times, so the refs just get used to it, figuring they can't blow the whistle six times on the first six possessions...