Two Years Ago

[azirish]

Two years ago the Spurs beat the Suns in five games with only one of the loses even close. Lots of things have changed since then, but obviously that series still weighs on our minds.

What's changed? First are personnel.

Spurs:

Gone: Nazr Mohamed, Rasho Nesterovic
Added: Fabricio Oberto Francisco Elson Jacque Vaughn, Michael Finley

Suns:

Gone: Q Richardson, Jimmy Jackson, Steven Hunter
Added: Kurt Thomas, Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, James Jones

In 2005, the Horry averaged 31 minutes a game against the Suns. Against Utah, he averaged 21.2 minutes a game with the minutes going to Elson.

What stands out more than anything else is that the Spurs won through better offense than through defense against the Suns. The Suns averaged 104 ppg and shot 49.6% and 41.3% for three. Their problem was that the Spurs shot 47.8% and 41.1% for three.

As we all remember, Amare had a huge series: 37 ppg, 55% shooting and 9.8 rpg. Nash struggled from long range (only 22.2% for three) but still averaged 23.2 ppg on 52.2% shooting plus 10.6 assists per game. Marion did not do much offensively, but averaged 10.8 rpg.

Joe Johnson did come back to play in that series, but was unable to play much defense. His offense in Game 4 was quite impressive (26 points on 10 of 15 shooting), but shot only 6 of 17 in Game 5.

Throughout the series, the Suns had leads, but couldn't keep them in the fourth quarter. The Sun's fatal flaw that season was a weak defense which gave up an average of 47.5% shooting by opponents during the playoffs.
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Both teams are quite different than two years ago. The Suns were not very good on defense to begin with and were worse when JJ got injured. This year the Suns are better on defense but the addition of Finley has made the Spurs better on offense.

In 2005, Horry played a huge role in the Spurs "small ball" lineup. It's not clear he will play as much or be as effective, but that was not tested against the big Nuggets.

With only one really good game by JJ in the 2005 series, the Suns were very limited offensively. Bowen could be assigned to Marion and shut him down. Also, the Suns did not get much from either Jimmy Jackson or Q Richardson. Duncan had a big series, 23.6 ppg and 12.4 rpg but struggled with Stoudemire.

The Spurs have made some changes and the Suns have made a lot of changes. This is not a rematch because these are not the same teams.

 

[pokerface]

A big mistake would be to overemphasize our new players to throw at the Spurs. While we do have some players that might match up better against them its the Spurs style, smarts, disapline, and experience are what makes them formidable. The Suns better be ready to match wits with them instead of just relying on athletic talent and speed.

The more things change the more they stay the same...some players have changed but they're still the Spurs and we're still the underdogs.

 

[sunsfn]

Joe Johnson did not play in the first two games of that series, and struggled in the first game back, then had a very good game when we won. The Spurs won both of them in Phx. and, IIRC by a total of about 3-5 points. I have always maintained that if Joe Johnson had not been injured and was at full strength for that series we would have won the first two games. After that we have a chance to beat them.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

This is from Simmons:

There isn't a happier team than the Spurs right now. Not only are they peaking at the perfect time, but Dallas was the one contender that matched up perfectly against them. Now they get the Suns (as much as I love watching the Suns, the Spurs are a terrible matchup for them), then the winner of Houston/Utah-Golden State, then whatever flawed team comes out of the East. Are you kidding me? During last night's game, TNT should have had cameras at Tim Duncan's house, like how CBS has cameras at various colleges during the NCAA tournament selection show. We needed to see the Spurs celebrating and pouring champagne on one another. Might as well start early. For all intents and purposes, you can put a fork in the 2007 NBA playoffs

Guys I am worried. There is not a worse matchup for us than these guys. We are going to have to get into that fifth gear to win. If i take away my bias I would pick the Spurs in 6.

I just have to see us do it to believe. If we lose either of the two first games (in PHX) i think we can begin writing the eulogies. Please prove me wrong boys.....

 

[green machine]

This is from Simmons:

There isn't a happier team than the Spurs right now. Not only are they peaking at the perfect time, but Dallas was the one contender that matched up perfectly against them. Now they get the Suns (as much as I love watching the Suns, the Spurs are a terrible matchup for them), then the winner of Houston/Utah-Golden State, then whatever flawed team comes out of the East. Are you kidding me? During last night's game, TNT should have had cameras at Tim Duncan's house, like how CBS has cameras at various colleges during the NCAA tournament selection show. We needed to see the Spurs celebrating and pouring champagne on one another. Might as well start early. For all intents and purposes, you can put a fork in the 2007 NBA playoffs

Guys I am worried. There is not a worse matchup for us than these guys. We are going to have to get into that fifth gear to win. If i take away my bias I would pick the Spurs in 6.

I just have to see us do it to believe. If we lose either of the two first games (in PHX) i think we can begin writing the eulogies. Please prove me wrong boys.....

I'm worried too, but as long as the Suns stay healthy I'll be OK with whatever happens. If this year's team isn't good enough then fine, I can accept that.

Let's just try to enjoy what will be a great series.

 

[msdundee]

Guys I am worried. There is not a worse matchup for us than these guys. We are going to have to get into that fifth gear to win. If i take away my bias I would pick the Spurs in 6.

I just have to see us do it to believe. If we lose either of the two first games (in PHX) i think we can begin writing the eulogies. Please prove me wrong boys.....

Somebody look up Simmons' prediction for the Dallas-GS series.

Check the Warriors Fanbook Rule #1: BELIEVE! ....... before you see it.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Somebody look up Simmons' prediction for the Dallas-GS series.

Check the Warriors Fanbook Rule #1: BELIEVE! ....... before you see it.

Listen I am on board. As Simmons alluded to earlier this year the Suns have greatness written all over them. All time greatness. So for him to change his tune now after the Suns have done nothing to really dispell that notion and just cause the Spurs are hot is kind of ludicrious.

BUT - The Spurs are our Kryptonite. I would have been unsatisifed had we won the championship and not beat them (and to an extent Dallas) to do it. We need to conquer them. But the fact is we have never beaten this team whenit mattered. Its going to take Nash putting us on his back and being every thing Nowitzki wasn't. We can talk all we want about other key players and x factors but the fact is if Nash plays like a three time MVP who smells the ring - we won't be beat. He has to rise up for this team like Duncan has for his so many times before. But i think he has it in him.

Let me just say this: This is the one team I could see beating us and they make me nervous as hell. But I think our boys will be sufficiently motivated and focused. And i have yet to see a team beat us when we are mentally on our games.

Should be fun. I just hope this all ends with a parade and confetti and not a disappointing second round loss.....

 

[Griffin]

But the fact is we have never beaten this team whenit mattered.

Well, we have only played them once in the post-season since Nash came back. That season we already exceeded all expectations even before we played them, so the motivation was not quite there. Before that they still owned us, but ours was a different team then. Ours was a different team even two years ago. The last time we beat the Spurs when it really mattered was on our way to the finals in 1993. That was also the last time the two teams met in the conference semifinals.

We really have to believe that we can beat them. The team has to believe that they can beat them. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best. There's really no other way to put it: if the Suns worry about losing, they will lose. As everyone keeps saying, it's all about confidence. I guess we as fans don't necessarily have to share that confidence, but if even their fans don't believe in them, who will?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm worried too, but as long as the Suns stay healthy I'll be OK with whatever happens. If this year's team isn't good enough then fine, I can accept that.

Let's just try to enjoy what will be a great series.

same boat here. I just can't wait to seehow far this team has come. Has DA figured out how to attack Pop's scheme's? Will Marion figure out a way to be offensively productive? Can Amare continue to ascend into the utter greatness we all think he can? Can Nash finally get a hold of Parker, or at least make the Spurs pay so that we're not at a disadvantage at the position where we have the MVP? Can Raja really put the clamp down on Ginobli like we hoped he would when we signed him? Will KT get minutes and be able to body effectively so we don't have to double off their shooters? So many questions - this thing is two years in the making and I think it's going to be fascinating to see how it shakes out.

DB!

 

[pokerface]

Joe Johnson did not play in the first two games of that series, and struggled in the first game back, then had a very good game when we won. The Spurs won both of them in Phx. and, IIRC by a total of about 3-5 points. I have always maintained that if Joe Johnson had not been injured and was at full strength for that series we would have won the first two games. After that we have a chance to beat them.

I always maintained Joe Johnson wouldn't have made much difference in that series. Thats really a cop out excuse by most Suns fans. I remember clearly that the Spurs were very much in control of that series and were winning convincingly.

 

[msdundee]

Let me just say this: This is the one team I could see beating us and they make me nervous as hell. But I think our boys will be sufficiently motivated and focused. And i have yet to see a team beat us when we are mentally on our games.

Should be fun. I just hope this all ends with a parade and confetti and not a disappointing second round loss.....

Actually I agree with you, and with green machine as well. If the Suns give it their all and play hard, that's all we can ask. Or at least that's all we should ask, although I'm sure any player who has an off game will be ripped to shreds here.

No matter what the oddsmakers say, I think most still expect the Spurs to win this series. I hope all our guys were watching the game last night and I hope all the Suns fans were watching too -- great example of what you can do with a lot of heart and a lot of noise. Except for the elite on their nap mats courtside, the Phoenix crowd sounded really into the games with LA. I went to the Suns-Spurs game a few months ago and it felt like a playoff game -- there's a real enmity there. The first two games here will be big and the fans need to be just as big.

Along with being the Suns' biggest challenge, the Spurs are also the one team I've really disliked for the past few years, no matter who they're playing -- which is a switch from back in the day when I thought they were a pretty classy team.

This year's Suns team has something special, but they'll need to call up everything they've got for this series. If we're lucky enough to see clean play, no injuries, and some decent officials, they can pull it off. I really DO believe that. But I'll still use the good-luck ritual, just in case.....

 

[azirish]

The hard part about looking up what happened two years ago is the absence of quarter by quarter info. If memory serves, the Suns lost at least two of the games in the fourth quarter due to a lack of defense.

If there was a lesson from two years ago it was that the Suns CAN score against anybody. Where they struggle is in playing good enough defense to keep from being outscored.

The Lakers actually had a good offense, so the Suns being able to hold them to 6 ppg less than their season average and 44.2% shooting compared to their 46.6% was not dramatic, but was not terrible considering the Kobe factor.

Game 1 - Lakers shoot 45.2% and 31.3% for three
Game 2 - Lakers shoot 41.4% and 37.5% for three
Game 3 - Lakers shoot 42% and 33.3% for three (Lakers won due mostly to so few fouls being called on them)
Game 4 - Lakers shoot 44.3% and 33.3% for three
Game 5 - Lakers shoot 47.8% and 23.5% for three

It will be interesting to see if the Suns can play tough enough defense.

 

[green machine]

The hard part about looking up what happened two years ago is the absence of quarter by quarter info. If memory serves, the Suns lost at least two of the games in the fourth quarter due to a lack of defense.

If there was a lesson from two years ago it was that the Suns CAN score against anybody. Where they struggle is in playing good enough defense to keep from being outscored.

The Lakers actually had a good offense, so the Suns being able to hold them to 6 ppg less than their season average and 44.2% shooting compared to their 46.6% was not dramatic, but was not terrible considering the Kobe factor.

Game 1 - Lakers shoot 45.2% and 31.3% for three
Game 2 - Lakers shoot 41.4% and 37.5% for three
Game 3 - Lakers shoot 42% and 33.3% for three (Lakers won due mostly to so few fouls being called on them)
Game 4 - Lakers shoot 44.3% and 33.3% for three
Game 5 - Lakers shoot 47.8% and 23.5% for three

It will be interesting to see if the Suns can play tough enough defense.

I thought it was the rebounding more then the defense two years ago. I seem to remember the Suns getting stops and then letting the Spurs get the rebound only to have them score the 2nd and 3rd time around.

 

[Chaplin]

A lot of this stuff from Suns fans about how the Spurs will probably beat us is pretty much trying to come up with excuses so that IF we lose, they'll be able to say, "well, I told you guys back on May 4th".

If the Suns lose to the Spurs, then I'll eat crow. This will be a great series, but I have confidence in the Suns to adjust to the Spurs and shock the world. If they don't, they don't. But I'm going to go into it with confidence.

 

[msdundee]

A lot of this stuff from Suns fans about how the Spurs will probably beat us is pretty much trying to come up with excuses so that IF we lose, they'll be able to say, "well, I told you guys back on May 4th".

If the Suns lose to the Spurs, then I'll eat crow. This will be a great series, but I have confidence in the Suns to adjust to the Spurs and shock the world. If they don't, they don't. But I'm going to go into it with confidence.

And the Suns need to do the same. I don't think they're cocky, but I do think they're confident. They can win this.

 

[az1965]

We will be fine.

We had a pretty even season series even though media is primarily using the 3rd and last game as a measuring stick.

Game 1 - We played a pretty even game and also had lead but lost it last few minutes and were still one free throw miss away from wining the game. High scoring game, suns preferred pace. Edge: EVEN, even though lost in overtime, could have gone either way.

Game 2 - We played our pace and blew them away at home with a 16 point win - Edge: SUNS

Game 3 - Spurs played their pace and took us out of our game by winning low scoring game. Edge: SPURS

Yes, historically, we did have problem with Spurs but we have improved some defensively and personnel wise as well. But to be scared of Spurs is ridiculous. This will be a physical and hard fought series. It ain't going to be easy but who expected that?

I will take Suns in 6. We must win first 3 home games and then have to take game 6 in SA.

 

[pokerface]

Really I want the Suns to just put up a good fight. Of course I want the Suns to win it and I think they have a good chance to do just that but I think I would really crumble if the Spurs won the series in 4-1 or 4-2 fashion. My Suns spirit needs this to go the distance...if we lose I dont want us to feel totally OWNED....let there at least be a few doubts on BOTH sides over the outcome of this one.

 

[msdundee]

Game 2 - We played our pace and blew them away at home with a 16 point win - Edge: SUNS

It was even better than it sounds. Suns were down at halftime in that game, came back with a huge fourth quarter and ran away with it.

 

[TucsonDevil]

I Believe

I Believe

I Believe

I BELIEVE

I BELIEVE!
​

 

[pokerface]

A lot of this stuff from Suns fans about how the Spurs will probably beat us is pretty much trying to come up with excuses so that IF we lose, they'll be able to say, "well, I told you guys back on May 4th".

Only the petty ones are thinking that way Chaplin...only the petty ones.


I think most of us have gudgingly respected the Spurs over the years and have a little fear of them. We dont want to get our hopes too high on this series even though we want it BADLY. They are tough ...they seem to play better than their individual talent....I mean they really mesh well as a team on both sides of the ball.

Having said that I really look forward to the matchups because I think the Suns are as dangerous as they've ever been. The Spurs cant feel totally confident...they must have a few doubts. Barbosa could really be the x-factor as he's been ripping it up big time. I want to see how Raja on Ginobli does...should be verrry interesting. Amare has been SOLID...playing good ball for sure. Plus Nash has been Nash for the most part...I doubt he'll let us down. Marion is the other x-factor. If Marion and Barbosa have good games the Suns win this series....Nash and Amare are given in my mind.

 

[BC867]

If this year's team isn't good enough then fine, I can accept that.

I'm wondering how long you've been a Suns fan and how long you've been away from the Valley, green machine.

After thirty years of living and dying with the Suns, so to speak, I cannot accept that.

The Cinderella team vs. Boston. Blowing our chance to meet and beat the Bullets. The Mo Lucas-Dennis Johnson-Walter Davis-Larry Nance-James Edwards team. The Barkley-Majerle teams.

I want our first ever Championship, and I want it now! Management should have prepared this team to excel, rather than, "If this year's team isn't good enough, then fine."

Nothing personal, green machine, but that kind of outlook as we look to the second round is not fine!

With three All Stars, good-enough is not good-enough.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the only thing the Suns need to fear is fear itself... that the boogeyman is the Spurs. I really believe the Suns are the better team this year. They just need to play basketball and forget about the ghosts of the past. In any regard, I really believe D'Antoni has improved as a head coach which is a difference maker in itself.

Also I think Nazr Mohamed was a significant factor in defending the Suns inside in their last playoff series with the Spurs but he is now gone. I think KT can play a huge role in this series and somebody just needs to get out and guard Finley from the 3 point line.

 

[Scot1]

If the Suns lose to the Spurs, then I'll eat crow. This will be a great series, but I have confidence in the Suns to adjust to the Spurs and shock the world. If they don't, they don't. But I'm going to go into it with confidence.

I completely agree with this, and with the earlier posts about this being a different team. Having KT makes a ton of difference, if DA uses him right. We've got Barbosa, who's potentially a better offensive weapon than JJ (and who I hope is practicing passing to Amare when Duncan comes over to block.) I have no doubt we can win. Whether we WILL win is a question--it's going to take brains and temper control. But I have confidence.

 

[dodie53]

suns in 6..

i believe..

 

[Bufalay]

suns will win this series. The spurs have no chance. D'antoni needs to use kurt thomas. He absolutely shuts down tim duncan. I hated when they traded for him, but the first time he played against the spurs last year it was obvious that they made the right move, he has done an excellent job everytime he has played against duncan.