Tyler Wilson

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The only hope I have for Wilson is that it was the Raiders who cut him and they obviously have no idea about QB play if Terrell Pryor is getting consideration as a starting QB.

Wilson is another example of why players should go pro at their earliest opportunity. He was a 1st round draft pick after his junior year but the loss of Petrino and then getting no OL help his senior year ruined him.

In his case it was obviously the wrong choice to return to college, but there are other situations where going back may be a good decision.

 

[Mitch]

From what I saw of Wilson his junior year---if we have a chance to sign him to the PS, I would be all for it.

 

[Cardiac]

From what I saw of Wilson his junior year---if we have a chance to sign him to the PS, I would be all for it.

I agree and since Keim said he would like to draft a QB every year it would make sense since he didn't draft one this year. Normally I would say having a 3rd string QB and PS QB would be a bit much but the QB position is just too important.

 

[Duckjake]

I agree and since Keim said he would like to draft a QB every year it would make sense since he didn't draft one this year. Normally I would say having a 3rd string QB and PS QB would be a bit much but the QB position is just too important.

However, there were I think 5 QBs on practice squads last season. With the Packers cutting Coleman only Case Keenum is still with his respective team. It's as easy to find 3rd string QBs as it is hard to find 1st string QBs. We all know too well what happens when your 3rd string QB has to play. Season's over.

 

[Duckjake]

3) LT has been a need for a decade plus.

If Brown hadn't been out last season the Cards would have had 4 Left Tackles since 1995. And all four were 1st round selections.

Lomas Brown, LJ Shelton, Leonard Davis, and Levi Brown.

Even more amazing: until last season the Cardinals haven't had at least a part time starter at LT who wasn't a first round selection since 1981!

Luis Sharpe and Earnest Dye are the other two. Of course Sharpe played LT for the Cards for 13 years.

 

[jbjarko]

Keim did say he would draft a QB every year in hopes of finding gold. Granted he didn't draft one this year lol.

In addition, Keim says that your 1st round pick, will start. Say we draft Tajh Boyd (Whom I think is spectacular), do you play him? Or do you let him sit behind Palmer?

 

[JeffGollin]

Keim did say he would draft a QB every year in hopes of finding gold. Granted he didn't draft one this year lol.

In addition, Keim says that your 1st round pick, will start. Say we draft Tajh Boyd (Whom I think is spectacular), do you play him? Or do you let him sit behind Palmer?

When it comes to starting rookies, QB is different

(In either direction - starting because he's best or because it's best for his development ; or not starting because another QB is better or it would be best for his development if he handled a clipboard for awhile).

 

[Cardiac]

Keim did say he would draft a QB every year in hopes of finding gold. Granted he didn't draft one this year lol.

This is why I think Tyler Wilson could be an option for the PS. He was drafted by the Raiders this year so....

In addition, Keim says that your 1st round pick, will start. Say we draft Tajh Boyd (Whom I think is spectacular), do you play him? Or do you let him sit behind Palmer?

When it comes to starting rookies, QB is different

(In either direction - starting because he's best or because it's best for his development ; or not starting because another QB is better or it would be best for his development if he handled a clipboard for awhile).

BA has also stated that QB's don't learn anything from sitting on the bench. If you take BASK at their word a 1st rd rookie QB would put Palmer on the bench.

 

[JeffGollin]

BA has also stated that QB's don't learn anything from sitting on the bench. If you take BASK at their word a 1st rd rookie QB would put Palmer on the bench.

He may have said it, but it doesn't ring consistent with stuff that could happen "on the ground."

For example - You think you're thin at QB and draft Bubba Touchdown with your #10 - #38th pick. But it turns turns out your new veteran QB had a lights-out preseason and is having a Pro Bowl year. Are you going to bench the dude in favor of Bubba TD? Really?

Or, in his first NFL snap, your first round rookie takes a look at the defensive scheme and begins to weep hysterically. Are you going to leave him out there (& risk losing your first 3 - 4 games) in order to help him "learn faster."

Two extreme examples to be sure, but I just think different circumstances drive different approaches (i.e. football is not a robo- sport).

 

[Duckjake]

He may have said it, but it doesn't ring consistent with stuff that could happen "on the ground."

For example - You think you're thin at QB and draft Bubba Touchdown with your #10 - #38th pick. But it turns turns out your new veteran QB had a lights-out preseason and is having a Pro Bowl year. Are you going to bench the dude in favor of Bubba TD? Really?

Or, in his first NFL snap, your first round rookie takes a look at the defensive scheme and begins to weep hysterically. Are you going to leave him out there (& risk losing your first 3 - 4 games) in order to help him "learn faster."

Two extreme examples to be sure, but I just think different circumstances drive different approaches (i.e. football is not a robo- sport).

We've already seen this happen. Veteran QB benched for Bonus Baby. Bonus Baby gets hurt, seasoned vet comes in has has a lights out half a season.
Bonus Baby stays on the bench, doesn't learn anything sitting, and is off the roster in a matter of months.

Makes no difference to Cardinal fans though. 5-11 with 'em and 5-11 without 'em.

 

[Southpaw]

"If" or "when"?

 

[jbjarko]

Wilson was added to the Raiders PS.

 

[Cardiac]

He may have said it, but it doesn't ring consistent with stuff that could happen "on the ground."

For example - You think you're thin at QB and draft Bubba Touchdown with your #10 - #38th pick. But it turns turns out your new veteran QB had a lights-out preseason and is having a Pro Bowl year. Are you going to bench the dude in favor of Bubba TD? Really?

Or, in his first NFL snap, your first round rookie takes a look at the defensive scheme and begins to weep hysterically. Are you going to leave him out there (& risk losing your first 3 - 4 games) in order to help him "learn faster."

Two extreme examples to be sure, but I just think different circumstances drive different approaches (i.e. football is not a robo- sport).

So taking out the extreme examples then I think BASK start the 1st rd QB.

There could be the scenario where the Cards take a QB with the 24th pick in the 1st rd (means we made the playoffs but lost in the wild card wkend rd) because he was BPA and BASK think he could be a franchise QB. The reason we lost the playoff game was because of the D as Palmer put up 400yds and 4 TD's with no picks.

In this example I think they stay with Palmer as the starting QB.

If the Cards pick a QB in the top ten in 2014 then that QB will be starting.

 

[JeffGollin]

So taking out the extreme examples then I think BASK start the 1st rd QB.

There could be the scenario where the Cards take a QB with the 24th pick in the 1st rd (means we made the playoffs but lost in the wild card wkend rd) because he was BPA and BASK think he could be a franchise QB. The reason we lost the playoff game was because of the D as Palmer put up 400yds and 4 TD's with no picks.

In this example I think they stay with Palmer as the starting QB.

If the Cards pick a QB in the top ten in 2014 then that QB will be starting.

Common sense would suggest that, if CP played well enough this season, (a) we wouldn't be drafting in the top 15 or (b) wouldn't use our top pick on a QB anyway.

 

[Cardiac]

Common sense would suggest that, if CP played well enough this season, (a) we wouldn't be drafting in the top 15 or (b) wouldn't use our top pick on a QB anyway.

If CP plays well and the Cards finish 8-8 (based on our schedule etc this would be a pretty successful season) and have a chance to draft a franchise QB in Rd1 they MUST do it. Palmer is what 34, hasn't been considered an elite QB for 5 years or so. Go get a franchise QB whenever possible and get him playing ASAP.

The days of Trent Dilfer type QB's winning the SB are over. Palmer may be better than Dilfer but we don't have Ray Lewis, Ogden etc. on this team.

Even if the Cards finish 10-6 and win a game in the Playoffs and Palmer is a major contributor I would still want BASK to go all Redskins and trade whatever to get a Luck, RGIII or Bridgewater. If that happens I want that QB starting immediately.

 

[Duckjake]

If CP plays well and the Cards finish 8-8 (based on our schedule etc this would be a pretty successful season) and have a chance to draft a franchise QB in Rd1 they MUST do it. Palmer is what 34, hasn't been considered an elite QB for 5 years or so. Go get a franchise QB whenever possible and get him playing ASAP.

The days of Trent Dilfer type QB's winning the SB are over. Palmer may be better than Dilfer but we don't have Ray Lewis, Ogden etc. on this team.

Even if the Cards finish 10-6 and win a game in the Playoffs and Palmer is a major contributor I would still want BASK to go all Redskins and trade whatever to get a Luck, RGIII or Bridgewater. If that happens I want that QB starting immediately.

You didn't just write that Carson Palmer is only slightly better than Trent Dilfer!

In 9 years Palmer has thrown for 29,400 yards and 189 TDs and only had one season, when he only played 4 games, with less than a 60% completion rate and only has two seasons where he started less than 13 games.

Dilfer played 13 years had 20,518 yards and 118 TDs and never had a season where he completed 60% or more of his passes and started more than 10 games in a season only once in his last 7 years in the NFL.

Funny how Tony Banks is never mentioned with that Baltimore SB team. Even though he started half the games.

 

[Cardiac]

You didn't just write that Carson Palmer is only slightly better than Trent Dilfer!

No I didn't say that. I said may be better, should have type is better than.

Kolb and Bones were our Banks & Dilfer combo except that Dilfer was had better pocket presence then Kolb and Banks had better feet then Bones.

POINT is that a team needs a franchise type QB to be relevant in todays NFL. At this point Palmer is not a franchise QB. Can BA's coaching and scheming make him one again, mayhaps, but I'm not putting any money on it.

 

[Duckjake]

No I didn't say that. I said may be better, should have type is better than.

Kolb and Bones were our Banks & Dilfer combo except that Dilfer was had better pocket presence then Kolb and Banks had better feet then Bones.

POINT is that a team needs a franchise type QB to be relevant in todays NFL. At this point Palmer is not a franchise QB. Can BA's coaching and scheming make him one again, mayhaps, but I'm not putting any money on it.

I sure hope you are wrong because I'm resting all my hopes for 2013 on Palmer. A guy who threw for a 1000 more yards and twice as many TDs and 33% fewer interceptions than our four stooges last season playing for a team just as bad as ours. Maybe worse.

 

[Cardiac]

I sure hope you are wrong because I'm resting all my hopes for 2013 on Palmer. A guy who threw for a 1000 more yards and twice as many TDs and 33% fewer interceptions than our four stooges last season playing for a team just as bad as ours. Maybe worse.

I hope I'm wrong as well, good news is that I usually am wrong.

I've heard pundits say Palmer doesn't have the arm strength he use to and can't throw the deep outs and digs with the zip required. I've heard Keim say he watched every throw Palmer made last year and he sees the same arm strength as when he came into the league.

Yes Palmer has been on some dysfunctional teams the past several years. Thing is the Bengals draft Dalton who then gets them to the playoffs and Palmer hadn't been able to do so. Is this just a timing thing or.....

Raiders are a mess so I won't hold him accountable for anything that happened there.

Bottom line is that Palmer is light years better then what we had last year and so yes the QB position is vastly improved. Heck, it appears Stanton is far better than what we had last year.

Thing is far too many years without elite QB play. Warner showed me what that looks like on my team and that it is a requirement to get to the promised land. We are talking about the Cards, do any of us truly believe we will have the luck to find a 2nd vet QB that most had written off as done and then they become elite again?

 

[Duckjake]

I just can't buy into a guy who can't make throws anymore having over 4000 yards passing. Just last season with below average WRs.

Can somebody give me an example of a QB who wasn't really that good going over 4000 yards? I'll look but any assistance will be appreciated.

EDIT:

So far I've found one. Jon Kitna who did it twice with Detroit 2006-07. He's got some of the wildest swings in season stats of any QB I've checked.

Jake Plummer, Kerry Collins also. Hard to believe Jake threw for over 4000 with Denver one year and that his overall record as a starter was 39-15.

 

[Cardiac]

I just can't buy into a guy who can't make throws anymore having over 4000 yards passing. Just last season with below average WRs.

Can somebody give me an example of a QB who wasn't really that good going over 4000 yards? I'll look but any assistance will be appreciated.

EDIT:

So far I've found one. Jon Kitna who did it twice with Detroit 2006-07. He's got some of the wildest swings in season stats of any QB I've checked.

Jake Plummer, Kerry Collins also. Hard to believe Jake threw for over 4000 with Denver one year and that his overall record as a starter was 39-15.

Where do you rate Palmer among starting QB's in the league?

If it's not top 12 then he isn't taking us to the SB. Caveat being that if in the next 3 years we draft/find a legit LT, 2 elite Pass rushers, at least one great TE, a very good CB (in addition to PP) and a DE to replace aging DD. I would also add a speed demon WR to the list. We would also need Coop, Minter, Honey Badger, Massie, Watford, Floyd and one of the RB's to be who we hoped they would be.

Which brings us back to pretty much no matter what happens this year if we can't a chance to draft a Bridgewater type QB then we do it. Even if that means going all Redskins with what we give up.

 

[Duckjake]

Where do you rate Palmer among starting QB's in the league?

If it's not top 12 then he isn't taking us to the SB. Caveat being that if in the next 3 years we draft/find a legit LT, 2 elite Pass rushers, at least one great TE, a very good CB (in addition to PP) and a DE to replace aging DD. I would also add a speed demon WR to the list. We would also need Coop, Minter, Honey Badger, Massie, Watford, Floyd and one of the RB's to be who we hoped they would be.

Which brings us back to pretty much no matter what happens this year if we can't a chance to draft a Bridgewater type QB then we do it. Even if that means going all Redskins with what we give up.

I'm all for looking for a franchise QB in the draft but Palmer is a guy who could win games for us if we get to the post season and we only need to win 9-10 games to do that. Just like Eli Manning and Joe Flacco.

Just think, Green Bay, Baltimore and New York (twice), have won Super Bowls winning 10 games or less in the regular season. And its been since 2005 that there hasn't been at least one team playing in a Conference Championship that has won 10 games or less in the regular season.

 

[Cardiac]

Rodgers, Flacco (has emerged) and Eli who studies like Leinart during the season and Peyton during the Playoffs. All elite Franchise QB's.

Happy we have Palmer, hoping lightning strikes twice but not counting on it.

 

[Duckjake]

Rodgers, Flacco (has emerged) and Eli who studies like Leinart during the season and Peyton during the Playoffs. All elite Franchise QB's.

Happy we have Palmer, hoping lightning strikes twice but not counting on it.

Well that's just it. Flacco and Eli Manning are not elite QB's. They are just good solid NFL QBs. Just like Carson Palmer.

 

[Cardiac]

Well that's just it. Flacco and Eli Manning are not elite QB's. They are just good solid NFL QBs. Just like Carson Palmer.

Agree to disagree. Eli and Flacco aren't just solid NFL QB's. Now hopefully Palmer is as good as either one of them and we are set for another 4 years at the position.