Uncalled For Media Anger

[BritCard]

It's amazing how much better Sam Darnold got when he had really good receivers, a functional O-line and good coaching. Would Kyler improve under the same conditions? Would Daniel Jones?

No. Is limitations are built in. They are not scheme or supporting cast related.

If you're going to miss a wide open Marv for a 20 yard gain your going to miss a wide open JJ too. He's just a very limited QB.

 

[Dback Jon]

It's amazing how much better Sam Darnold got when he had really good receivers, a functional O-line and good coaching. Would Kyler improve under the same conditions? Would Daniel Jones?

Correct - watching the Cowboy/Bucs game last night with REAL receivers that come back for balls, run routes, have the awareness to know the QB is in trouble and adjust, and get open.

 

[Dback Jon]

It’s not one or the other… There are a host of issues to address. However, it’s not at all unreasonable to have expected Kyler, a #1 overall pick and a QB being paid a gazillion now in his 6th season, to have led this team to victory yesterday.

I never saw this team as a post season team, so the fact that they’re won’t be in again this year is not at all surprising to me.
That said, they had a very, very winnable game yesterday to keep their playoff chances alive. And they needed their QB to step up and do what other top tier QB’s do - win a game late in the season against an inferior team.
Once again, Murray came up short…

When you have your #1 receiver drop easy passes, fail to run routes/adjust that cost TD's and drives, an OC that couldn't figure out that the Panthers D was stacking the box in the second half and switch to play action, and working behind an OL that was missing key starters, along with some atrocious refereeing (again) it is an uphill battle.

 

[Dback Jon]

Nope. I genuinely like all the staff and the GM.

Rallis has made lemonade with lemons. JG has got most of the in game calls right and set the culture. Petzing get's a lot of crap but the scheme is fine, there are routes downfield, there are guys open.

It's as simple as Kyler is just really bad. I don't know how people don't get that. When your QB sucks your team sucks.

You know how when a team loses their starting QB and a backup comes in and the production drops massively? Well that's us, with a permanent backup level guy at QB.

LOL at defending Putzing.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Only if you want to get this coaching staff fired, honestly.

I don't see any scenario where Bidwill fires the whole staff, no matter the result of the final 2 games. Petzig will be the sacrificial lamb.

 

[Harry]

The problem is, he's not going anywhere next year, and even if we could miracle that, there's nobody in this draft to bring in. So you could journeyman someone behind him to take the reins in 2026 when we draft the elusive QBOF with some mid first or 2nd round pick, and the cycle of firing everyone and starting over begins again.

I've seen this film before, and I didn't like the ending.

The problem is, he's not going anywhere next year, and even if we could miracle that, there's nobody in this draft to bring in. So you could journeyman someone behind him to take the reins in 2026 when we draft the elusive QBOF with some mid first or 2nd round pick, and the cycle of firing everyone and starting over begins again.

I've seen this film before, and I didn't like the ending.

I agree with much of this

 

[kerouac9]

nah i like the staff kinda somewhat so far - and mikey watched the same games we did - same defense we did

d-rob and mhj just didn't hit this year but they didn't draft kyler murray - and he'd be the reason we lose the next two

Well if this staff goes into 2025 on a 1-6 run, they're going into training camp on the hot seat. People will be wondering whether his message is really effective with the team. He'll also probably start to lose credibility in the locker room, because they're fully bought into the process and the results aren't showing.

It's as simple as Kyler is just really bad.

This is the kind of statement that gets under other posters' skins. He's not "really bad" by any meaningful metric. He's just not among the top eight or so QBs in the NFL. He's also not really among the 10-12 worse starting QBs in the NFL. Anthony Richardson right now is bad. Aidan O'Connell is bad. Kyler Murray is mid.

If we surrounded Kyler with all the talent people here post about, we'd get results that are probably a little better than we've seen from Trevor Lawrence and a little worse than we've seen from Tua/Brock Purdy.

I don't see any scenario where Bidwill fires the whole staff, no matter the result of the final 2 games. Petzig will be the sacrificial lamb.

All these guys are safe in 2025. But lose out and they're all walking into 2025 on the hot seat and probably making a lot of short-term decisions.

I don't even think Petzing gets fired this offseason. I expect Gannon to stand by him, and this is still the #14 scoring offense in the NFL and #10 yardage offense in the NFL. #4 in rushing.

 

[Totally_Red]

No question the Cardinals made progres this season. It is asinine to suggest mass firings at this point.

Otoh, there should be some coaching changes and some significant free agency signings leading to the playoffs NEXT season.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

No question the Cardinals made progres this season. It is asinine to suggest mass firings at this point.

Otoh, there should be some coaching changes and some significant free agency signings leading to the playoffs NEXT season.

It's just the way we're limping over the finish line that's so difficult to accept.

 

[82CardsGrad]

When you have your #1 receiver drop easy passes, fail to run routes/adjust that cost TD's and drives, an OC that couldn't figure out that the Panthers D was stacking the box in the second half and switch to play action, and working behind an OL that was missing key starters, along with some atrocious refereeing (again) it is an uphill battle.

Ugh...I get that everything...literally EVERYTHING, must be perfect in order for Kyler to succeed, but that's just not reality. Top-tier QB's routinely overcome systemic imperfection, especially in games late in the season and in particular against inferior teams. These QB's find a way, period. Maybe they call critical audibles at the line, or make a post-snap read that proves pivotal. Maybe they use their feet to secure key first downs. Perhaps they make "that throw" that needed to be made in a seriously tight window, or make a throw or two where only his receiver can make a play on the ball.
I am by far an MHJ apologist... kid has a ton of work to do. But, I remember seeing at least 2, maybe 3 throws by Kyler that were not thrown in the optimal place and one in particular, late in the game when the Cards were backed deep in their own territory, where Kyler was late getting the ball to MHJ who was open for a second but because the ball was late and wasn't thrown with mustard we know Murray has, the CB was able to close and break up the play.

These excuses as to why Kyler always...as in not rarely, but always fails in late season critical games and moments, are so tiring to read. And sadly, for as long as Kyler remains a Cardinal, the excuses will be the instant, on-replay response we'll continue to read here. Oh well...

 

[WeBlitz]

Nope. I genuinely like all the staff and the GM.

Rallis has made lemonade with lemons. JG has got most of the in game calls right and set the culture. Petzing get's a lot of crap but the scheme is fine, there are routes downfield, there are guys open.

It's as simple as Kyler is just really bad. I don't know how people don't get that. When your QB sucks your team sucks.

You know how when a team loses their starting QB and a backup comes in and the production drops massively? Well that's us, with a permanent backup level guy at QB.

Question. What makes you like the GM so much? It is still early, but it is starting to look like the GM made the wrong decision to trade out of Will Anderson and drafted the wrong WR in the first round.

He has also swung and miss on FAs more than he has hit this year.

I have also seen your posts of not being a believer in Darius Robinson and not liking that pick. Well….take a guess who drafted him?

Has Monti added some talent? Sure, but that’s such a low-bar to where Keim left it at until Monti’s arrival.

I just don’t understand where all of this assurance is coming from when it comes to Monti.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Question. What makes you like the GM so much? It is still early, but it is starting to look like the GM made the wrong decision to trade out of Will Anderson and drafted the wrong WR in the first round.

He has also swung and miss on FAs more than he has hit this year.

I have also seen your posts of not being a believer in Darius Robinson and not liking that pick. Well….take a guess who drafted him?

Has Monti added some talent? Sure, but that’s such a low-bar to where Keim left it at until Monti’s arrival.

I just don’t understand where all of this assurance is coming from when it comes to Monti.

Same.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Question. What makes you like the GM so much? It is still early, but it is starting to look like the GM made the wrong decision to trade out of Will Anderson and drafted the wrong WR in the first round.

He has also swung and miss on FAs more than he has hit this year.

I have also seen your posts of not being a believer in Darius Robinson and not liking that pick. Well….take a guess who drafted him?

Has Monti added some talent? Sure, but that’s such a low-bar to where Keim left it at until Monti’s arrival.

I just don’t understand where all of this assurance is coming from when it comes to Monti.

You're too kind on FA. Most of his picks were awful. He had 7 of the top 90 picks in this draft, and we've seen very little impact from all of them. Might they do more in the future? Hopefully, but we were all told that Monti drafted older/more mature NFL ready players, and that hasn't been the case at all.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

I read all the over the top reactions to the Cards’ loss this Sunday. Of course none of us are happy. Still you’d think the Cards’ coaching staff deceived or betrayed everyone. In my opinion I think we should be congratulating them for giving us meaningful December games. It’s been awhile. Put aside the fact that the Cards, with an offense focused on running, finished the game with their top 3 RBs disabled. Do you doubt that had Connor not been injured the Cards likely win the game? I’ll conceded they played badly, but how many teams lose to inferior opponents at some point? The timing was bad, but the injury list was unreal. You could almost put together a starting lineup from that list. Murray played poorly. Is that really news? I’m okay with disappointment. Some frustration is reasonable. Verbal assault is over the top. How many predicted this team to be fighting for a playoff spot in December?

This year was progress. With a good offseason the Cards will be positioned for bigger things. This team gave us an exciting year. They had some gutsy finishes and were fun to watch for the most part. I’m just saying let’s not let the disappointment get out of proportion with the accomplishments. Maybe some distance will yield more perspective. I’d rather look forward to an offseason that promises to be result changing. I’m sure some will attack this post as glass half full rhetoric. For me it’s about getting real about this season as a whole.

The improvement in record should have been expected. The problem is, they could have had a bigger offseason this last year but they sat on the money. I still can't get over the fact that they didn't even attempt to fix the pass rush situation. That's inexcusable from a FO standpoint. IMO, much of the issues on offense are on the play calling and scheme. They need to better design the scheme/system around the players and not the other way around.

 

[kerouac9]

I still can't get over the fact that they didn't even attempt to fix the pass rush situation. That's inexcusable from a FO standpoint.

I'm not sure you can make this case. They added a first-round pick and anticipated growth from a second round pick. Both got injured, which was a shame, but you hope for that to make an impact.

We also made a trade at the deadline to get a guy who has been successful in the past and has had success once arriving.

 

[BritCard]

This is the kind of statement that gets under other posters' skins. He's not "really bad" by any meaningful metric. He's just not among the top eight or so QBs in the NFL. He's also not really among the 10-12 worse starting QBs in the NFL. Anthony Richardson right now is bad. Aidan O'Connell is bad. Kyler Murray is mid.

He's really bad for a 6th year QB.

I agree that on results he's a mid level 14-18 rank QB, because his athleticism, ability to run and flashes of great play lift him up.

As an actual quarterback, a position that is supposed to read defenses, go through progressions, have pocket presence, have timing, be able to make all the passes etc he's "really bad". Especially so for a 6th year QB.

If it was possible to get every starting QB in the league, give them the same west coast offense, the same O line and receivers, put them against the same defense and call the same 35 passing plays in an effort to rank their ability to read defenses, go through progressions, throw on time, remain chill in the pocket etc, all the things that are the core tenets of playing NFL QB, and he wasn't allowed to scramble, he'd be max 25th in the league.

Most of his production comes from one read or pre determined throws and his legs.

 

[BritCard]

LOL at defending Putzing.

We gonna do the whole "It's Kliff's fault" thing again uh? How did that work out?

For YEARS it was Kliff's offense limiting Kyler or his play calls, and in his very next job with a carbon copy of Kyler and the exact same offense they have one of the best offenses in the league.

It's not Petzing.

 

[Dayman]

Question. What makes you like the GM so much? It is still early, but it is starting to look like the GM made the wrong decision to trade out of Will Anderson and drafted the wrong WR in the first round.

He has also swung and miss on FAs more than he has hit this year.

I have also seen your posts of not being a believer in Darius Robinson and not liking that pick. Well….take a guess who drafted him?

Has Monti added some talent? Sure, but that’s such a low-bar to where Keim left it at until Monti’s arrival.

I just don’t understand where all of this assurance is coming from when it comes to Monti.

I was going to post the same thing. I get that people are still traumatized by Keim's last couple of years, but how much better has Monti really made this team in the last 2 years? Most of the production is still coming from Keim players.

The offense is slow and predictable. The defense is still devoid of playmakers and is horrible at forcing turnovers. The coaching staff was supposed to specialize in player development, but what players have really developed? He got caught for tampering with his first head coach hire. He cut our starting QB after the last preseason game last year, which is something pretty much no team ever does. He has re-signed mediocre talent like Zaven and Forholdt while letting real talent like Zach Allen and, to a lesser extent, Byron Murphy leave. He spent a boatload of picks in this draft on players who are making very little impact.

Seriously, what am I missing here?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I was going to post the same thing. I get that people are still traumatized by Keim's last couple of years, but how much better has Monti really made this team in the last 2 years? Most of the production is still coming from Keim players.

The offense is slow and predictable. The defense is still devoid of playmakers and is horrible at forcing turnovers. The coaching staff was supposed to specialize in player development, but what players have really developed? He got caught for tampering with his first head coach hire. He cut our starting QB after the last preseason game last year, which is something pretty much no team ever does. He has re-signed mediocre talent like Zaven and Forholdt while letting real talent like Zach Allen and, to a lesser extent, Byron Murphy leave. He spent a boatload of picks in this draft on players who are making very little impact.

Seriously, what am I missing here?

How much better is this team with Zach Allen and Will Anderson Jr? How much of an impact player is Paris and the magic beans that came with the mind-numbing trade away from one of college football’s best pass rushers ever who ALSO had all the measurables? We saw yesterday we could still maul people in the running game without a solid at best Paris.

And that’s to say nothing of using the 4th pick on the 5 best rookie WR, who trails the others by a wide margin.

 

[kerouac9]

He's really bad for a 6th year QB.

I agree that on results he's a mid level 14-18 rank QB, because his athleticism, ability to run and flashes of great play lift him up.

As an actual quarterback, a position that is supposed to read defenses, go through progressions, have pocket presence, have timing, be able to make all the passes etc he's "really bad". Especially so for a 6th year QB.

If it was possible to get every starting QB in the league, give them the same west coast offense, the same O line and receivers, put them against the same defense and call the same 35 passing plays in an effort to rank their ability to read defenses, go through progressions, throw on time, remain chill in the pocket etc, all the things that are the core tenets of playing NFL QB, and he wasn't allowed to scramble, he'd be max 25th in the league.

Most of his production comes from one read or pre determined throws and his legs.

I just don't know where the data is "for a 6th year QB." I try to lump all QBs in after their second contract and hold them to the same standard. Kyler's clearly better than his fellow sixth-year QBs Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins (RIP), and Drew Lock.

He's better than Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen from the 2018 draft class was in their sixth year, but not Baker Mayfield (some will quibble with this), Josh Allen, and Lamar Jackson.

From the 2017 draft class he's better than Mitch Trubisky was in his sixth year, but not Patrick Mahomes. I don't know how much you want to fight about where he compares with Deshaun Watson in his suspension-shortened sixth season, but I fully expect Kyler to be better in his seventh season than Watson was.

From the 2016 draft class Jaren Goff had been traded and was going 3-10-1 with the Lions and passing for fewer than 3300 yards, 19 TDs, and 8 INTs. Carson Wentz had also been traded and was going 9-8 for the Colts on his way to becoming a Journeyman QB. Kyler's way, way better than 2016 first-rounder Paxton Lynch.

From the 2015 draft class, Jamis Winston was starting zero games for the New Orleans Saints in his sixth season, after creating the 30-30 club for TD passes and INTs the previous season with Bruce Arians. Fellow top draft pick Marcus Mariota was also starting zero games in the beginning of his two-year stay in Las Vegas where he'd start zero total games.

I get people being mad that Kyler isn't Lamar, Allen, or Patrick Mahomes. In a lot of ways those are his peers. But he's obviously at or near the top of the next group of guys.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I just don't know where the data is "for a 6th year QB." I try to lump all QBs in after their second contract and hold them to the same standard. Kyler's clearly better than his fellow sixth-year QBs Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins (RIP), and Drew Lock.

He's better than Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen from the 2018 draft class was in their sixth year, but not Baker Mayfield (some will quibble with this), Josh Allen, and Lamar Jackson.

From the 2017 draft class he's better than Mitch Trubisky was in his sixth year, but not Patrick Mahomes. I don't know how much you want to fight about where he compares with Deshaun Watson in his suspension-shortened sixth season, but I fully expect Kyler to be better in his seventh season than Watson was.

From the 2016 draft class Jaren Goff had been traded and was going 3-10-1 with the Lions and passing for fewer than 3300 yards, 19 TDs, and 8 INTs. Carson Wentz had also been traded and was going 9-8 for the Colts on his way to becoming a Journeyman QB. Kyler's way, way better than 2016 first-rounder Paxton Lynch.

From the 2015 draft class, Jamis Winston was starting zero games for the New Orleans Saints in his sixth season, after creating the 30-30 club for TD passes and INTs the previous season with Bruce Arians. Fellow top draft pick Marcus Mariota was also starting zero games in the beginning of his two-year stay in Las Vegas where he'd start zero total games.

I get people being mad that Kyler isn't Lamar, Allen, or Patrick Mahomes. In a lot of ways those are his peers. But he's obviously at or near the top of the next group of guys.

On the one hand, you say Kyler is a totally mid QB (which I agree with… a mid QB who totally crumbles in the clutch). On the other hand, he’s also at or near the top of the guys after Lamar, Mahommes and Allen. So everyone after those guys are mid?

I get it… you like proving Brit wrong, but you speak out of both sides of your mouth so often I’m stunned you actually suck in enough oxygen to breathe.

 

[DVontel]

I was going to post the same thing. I get that people are still traumatized by Keim's last couple of years, but how much better has Monti really made this team in the last 2 years? Most of the production is still coming from Keim players.

The offense is slow and predictable. The defense is still devoid of playmakers and is horrible at forcing turnovers. The coaching staff was supposed to specialize in player development, but what players have really developed? He got caught for tampering with his first head coach hire. He cut our starting QB after the last preseason game last year, which is something pretty much no team ever does. He has re-signed mediocre talent like Zaven and Forholdt while letting real talent like Zach Allen and, to a lesser extent, Byron Murphy leave. He spent a boatload of picks in this draft on players who are making very little impact.

Seriously, what am I missing here?

Pretty hard to argue against here.

With Brit, I understand getting Rallis grace & to a much shorter extent, JG & Petzing, but Monti has not earned all this Grace you are giving him. Just look at all the missteps he has made so far during his tenure.

 

[82CardsGrad]

On the one hand, you say Kyler is a totally mid QB (which I agree with… a mid QB who totally crumbles in the clutch). On the other hand, he’s also at or near the top of the guys after Lamar, Mahommes and Allen. So everyone after those guys are mid?

I get it… you like proving Brit wrong, but you speak out of both sides of your mouth so often I’m stunned you actually suck in enough oxygen to breathe.

It's always a challenge to slot guys into tiers and some sort of comparison-based ranking... So many variables. Here's what I know to be true:
Every NFL QB must overcome stuff in order to become a winner. We can quibble over what that "stuff" is, how much "stuff" one QB had to deal with versus another, blah blah blah... But proven, top-tier winning QB's always deal with stuff and have proven the ability to overcome that stuff more often than not.

Kyler has never once shown an ability to overcome...really anything. He's good enough to be a NFL starter. But he has deficiencies in all the areas that will always keep him from being a top-tier winning NFL QB.
Where that slots him is the what makes boards like this fun I guess...All I know is, as I've said since the day we drafted him, Kyler Murray will never be a proven, reliable winner in the NFL.

 

[kerouac9]

On the one hand, you say Kyler is a totally mid QB (which I agree with… a mid QB who totally crumbles in the clutch). On the other hand, he’s also at or near the top of the guys after Lamar, Mahommes and Allen. So everyone after those guys are mid?

I get it… you like proving Brit wrong, but you speak out of both sides of your mouth so often I’m stunned you actually suck in enough oxygen to breathe.

It's just comparing two different things, different standards, etc., etc. @BritCard says Kyler is bad for a sixth-year QB. That's obviously not the case; he's better than eleven of the past fifteen QBs in their sixth years.

But among 2024's starting QBs? He ranks 14th in yards, eighth in completion percentage, sixth in success rate, 19th in YPA, 16th in passer rating, and fifth in total QBR. That reads mid to me.

Among QBs who have earned a second contract, my qualitative ranking places him in the fourth tier, below MVP candidates and playoff QBs. He's in the same group as Tua, Derek Carr, and Trevor Lawrence.