UofA Football now on probation.Will ASU follow?

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AZBALLER said:
Obviously, this is just my opinion...but, for a basketball school, you're expecting too much from your football program...Tomey led ua to their best season EVER as ua's head coach...IMO, Tomey=Snyder. You have a really good season every now and then, and the rest of the time you're mediocre...Isn't that better than what ua has done since Tomey left? And yes, that includes the Stoops years...Furthermore, how is Stoops a better hire than wackovick? What are their winning percentages?
I said firing Tomey was the right move for Arizona (just like firing Snyder was the right move for ASU) except that they made a poor hire after that unlike ASU. Similar scenarios happen all the time. Using a local example, firing Tobin was the right move for the Cardinals yet hiring and retaining McGinnis was obviously a poor choice.

As far as my expectations go, I've always said that generally speaking there's nothing wrong with having high expectations. I'd rather have a coach who talks championships and fails than a coach who settles for mediocrity. I really didn't care about the Insight Bowl or the Aloha Bowl or the Freedom Bowl or any of the other wastes of time that Tomey took us to every year especially when those meaningless games and beating ASU seemed to be the only goals. And even now, when Arizona has only won 8 games in the past three seasons, I still wouldn't want Tomey and his mediocre results as head coach because it became obvious we would never win anything important.

And Stoops was/is a better hire than Mackovic even if he goes 0-11 this season and gets canned in November. Mackovic essentially drained what little life Tomey had left out the program. He left Arizona football with no talent, an apathetic student body, a disinterested local community, and most boosters who should be spearheading things like facility upgrades and such had abandoned the program. Hell, it took Arte Moreno and Jim Click bailing out Livengood just to have the money to get Mackovic out of there or he still might be the coach. Stoops hasn't won, but attendance is up, the local support for the football program is back, and there's actually players on the team that look like they could be in the NFL some day. Stoops hasn't proven anything to suggest he's a good hire (except in the eyes of the bean counters in the AD), but he hasn't been the complete disaster from Day 1 that Mackovic was.

Speaking of disasters, you have to be blind to not see Stoops and Canales offense has been pretty pathetic. Some of it can be blamed on talent (Heavner and Kovalchek have never been D-1 QBs), but the playcalling, execution, and player development on the offensive side of the ball have also left a lot to be desired which is probably why Canales is on the hot seat. But at least unlike Tomey, they seem to want it to be good. Tomey punted on third downs and ran FB draws on 3rd and anything more than seven up until he resigned. During the Tomey days, especially the early 90s it was almost like they really only wanted to score 10 points per game. Even worse was that Tomey never made any attempts to change the abhorrent system or bring in players with any offensive skills until the late 90s and by that time the Pac-10 had already figured out his defense.
 

AZBALLER

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Didn't Tomey change ua's offense from a wishbone to a throwing/pro style offense? In the very early 90's?

And no, I'm not blind. I know ua's offense is pathetic...Where did I say that it was good or even decent? I'm just saying that it has gone from bad to worse.

I do agree with you that stoops is a better hire than armani mack...But how much better? Wasn't he supposed to immediately teach the Pac how to play D? Tomey was a better defensive coach, and he certainly was a better offensive coach.
 

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AZBALLER said:
And no, I'm not blind. I know ua's offense is pathetic...Where did I say that it was good or even decent? I'm just saying that it has gone from bad to worse.
Not really. It's actually slightly improved but mostly kind of leveled out. That's why Canales is more on the hot seat than Stoops as his side of the ball hasn't made significant strides. But as for Canales body of work...

Arizona offense:
2003
PPG - 15.1
YPG - 307.5
Pac10 - 10/10

2004
PPG - 14.9
YPG - 288.9
Pac10 - 9/10

2005
PPG - 22.9
YPG - 351.3
Pac10 - 9/10


I do agree with you that stoops is a better hire than armani mack...But how much better? Wasn't he supposed to immediately teach the Pac how to play D? Tomey was a better defensive coach, and he certainly was a better offensive coach.
Tomey never had to inherit a team that gave up over 35 points a contest.

Arizona defense:

2003
PPG - 35.8
YPG - 460.8
Pac10 - 10/10
+/- {-248}

2004
PPG - 25.0
YPG - 379.4
Pac10 - 6/10
+/- {-111}

2005
PPG - 26.4
YPG - 408.8
Pac10 - 4/10
+/- {-38}

As you can see there was a noticeable improvement defensively once Stoops arrived and the defense continued to move up the Pac-10 rankings on that side of the ball. Arizona's 2006 defense will be in the upper half of the Pac-10, but their postseason fate will again lie with their offense. If the offense costs them again, then you're probably looking at some firings and an overhaul of that side of the ball at the end of the season. Much like Koetter had to do once he was fed up with his defense costing him ballgames.
 

AZBALLER

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Brent Guy(Koetter's first DC) left ASU for a head coaching job, he wasn't fired...

Thanks for the numbers, they are interesting...Although, are you saying that Tomey was a bad defensive coach? Remember Stoops' comment after his first season as a Pac head coach?...Something to the effect, that he had NO IDEA how good the qb play in the Pac was...I wouldn't want that defensive genious in charge of my team!
 

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AZBALLER said:
I do agree with you that stoops is a better hire than armani mack...But how much better? Wasn't he supposed to immediately teach the Pac how to play D? Tomey was a better defensive coach, and he certainly was a better offensive coach.

For the thousandth time... LET THE MAN BRING IN HIS OWN PLAYERS FIRST. No man could have coached the players that were here when Mack left.
 

Mr. Boldin

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AZBALLER said:
Furthermore, how is Stoops a better hire than wackovick? What are their winning percentages?

How do you even ask that question?

After what Mack did to UA and its players, how is anyone not better then him?

Despite what you think, Stoops has done a 180 with this team. We dont have the wins yet, but you cant blame all that on Stoops, hell look at who we have had to play the past two seasons.

Stoops is bringing in talent that we have never seen before in Tucson, the wins will soon follow.
 
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AZBALLER

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Mr. Boldin said:
How do you even ask that question?

After what Mack did to UA and its players, how is anyone not better then him?

Despite what you think, Stoops has done a 180 with this team. We dont have the wins yet, but you cant blame all that on Stoops, hell look at who we have had to play the past two seasons.

Stoops is bringing in talent that we have never seen before in Tucson, the wins will soon follow.

I'm still waiting to hear the winning %ages...What do you mean Boldin? Did ua have tougher schedules than any other team in the Pac? I've heard about ua's Great recruiting classes ever since wacko was there, and now you deny the talent that you praised???
 
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