Update: David Johnson sits out, wants contract extension

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

It would be a little bit much for the Cards to clap at DJ stating, "...we're in the business of winning super bowls." when its never happened.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I actually don't know. I didn't believe that Tryann Mathieu deserved a big contract extension when he got one, and I don't believe that David Johnson deserves one right now. Because DJ sucked in his one game before he got hurt — and the Lions defense ended up 28th in the NFL in rushing DVOA.

I agree with you here about the HB extension. I was very skeptical about it considering the HB was coming off of two major ACL injuries.

Before DJ left mid way through the 3rd quarter of the Lions game he already had 90 all purpose yards. Give him another Quarter and a half and he breaks 100 yards easy.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Speaking of which, how did David Johnson do in those two playoff games? How does he compare to Bell when it matters most?

Against Carolina he had 128 all purpose yards with a TD. He had more receiving yards than Fitz and Floyd combined. Solid numbers if you ask me.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I actually don't know. I didn't believe that Tryann Mathieu deserved a big contract extension when he got one, and I don't believe that David Johnson deserves one right now. Because DJ sucked in his one game before he got hurt — and the Lions defense ended up 28th in the NFL in rushing DVOA.

Before DJ left mid way through the 3rd quarter of the Lions game he already had 90 all purpose yards. Give him another Quarter and a half and he breaks 100 yards easy.

And here is another interesting nugget, Devonta Freeman who you referenced early as having the highest contract # for a running back, in that first week against the vaunted Bears defense:

39 all purpose yards in that game

 

[Southpaw]

He is paid fairly. He's paid the contract that he signed as a rookie 3rd round pick. Reach the end of your contract and then we'll deal with you.

He played 46 snaps of football last season! He fumbled twice in 17 touches!

Got paid for doing next to nothing last year. None of the checks bounced.

 

[sunsfan88]

Teams can cut players any time in a contract so it goes both ways.

And they still get the guaranteed part of the contract no matter what.

 

[BigRedRage]

And they still get the guaranteed part of the contract no matter what.

That's not true. Some of the money is guaranteed for x year. Its not all up front guaranteed.

 

[daves]

The suicide rate, from what I've read, is no greater than in the general population.

Interesting - i did not know that, and it's certainly surprising given the high profile that sports-related concussions have received for the last few years (including the movie, Concussion!). But, apparently true: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2016/05/11/cdc-study-nfl-suicide/84224104/

...dave

 

[cardncubfan]

How about the last three years? Does production count only every other year?

Bell is twice an All-Pro. He's been to the Pro Bowl three times. He's gone over 1300 yards rushing three times in 5 NFL seasons. And he's two months younger than David Johnson. Bell has 8 fumbles in 5 seasons. David Johnson has 11 in 2 1/16.

There's no world where David Johnson is as good or better than Le'Veon Bell.

Bell was drafted 2 years earlier. DJ didn't start until late in 2015. He played all of 2016 except for part of the last game. That year he had almost twice as many TD's. I'll take 11 extra TD's with 3 more fumbles anytime. Being DJ has only been a full time starter for 2 years so comparing Bells 5 years of over 1300 yds ins't exactly an even comparison. When both players are on the field DJ is absolutely the better player & 2016 proves it. You know as well as I do that the Pro Bowl means nothing & is a popularity contest so that comparison means nothing as well. The only true side by side comparison we have is 2016 when both played the whole year.

 

[cardncubfan]

So they've both had the same amount of TDs in the last 2 seasons?

Except one did it in half as many games. Guess which one.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

That's not true. Some of the money is guaranteed for x year. Its not all up front guaranteed.

The guaranteed money is guaranteed to the player no matter. Usually it is spread out over the amount of years of the contract but if they are cut early, the team is on the hook to pay out the rest. At least that is how I have always understood it. If someone else can chime in and confirm or deny? A player signs the contract with only the guaranteed money as the implied amount they will get for sure. The other dollar amounts and years are just fluff to make it look good on paper. The agents and/or players aren't stupid. They know what they are getting into when they sign.

 

[iRobot]

He is paid fairly. He's paid the contract that he signed as a rookie 3rd round pick. Reach the end of your contract and then we'll deal with you.

He played 46 snaps of football last season! He fumbled twice in 17 touches!

Very business-side point of view. Player side point of view looks like this... I have given this team a lot of production and shown I am skilled. You want some injury guarantees or language in the contract, fine... but running backs don't have a long life in the Not For Long league and I want to get paid SOONER than LATER for my family sake.

I don't blame him, I get it.

 

[unseenaz]

Very business-side point of view. Player side point of view looks like this... I have given this team a lot of production and shown I am skilled. You want some injury guarantees or language in the contract, fine... but running backs don't have a long life in the Not For Long league and I want to get paid SOONER than LATER for my family sake.

I don't blame him, I get it.

players come and go, the franchise is what stands the test of time. i'm a fan of the cardinals, therefore i vote for a move that makes most sense for the cardinals.

 

[GuernseyCard]

The guaranteed money is guaranteed to the player no matter. Usually it is spread out over the amount of years of the contract but if they are cut early, the team is on the hook to pay out the rest. At least that is how I have always understood it. If someone else can chime in and confirm or deny? A player signs the contract with only the guaranteed money as the implied amount they will get for sure. The other dollar amounts and years are just fluff to make it look good on paper. The agents and/or players aren't stupid. They know what they are getting into when they sign.

Only the actual signing bonus.

There are a host of other so - called guarantees that go by the wayside and the salary, obviously.

 

[GuernseyCard]

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[MadCardDisease]

Cowboy's guard Zach Martin just got paid big time! 6 year $84M extension.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000937068/article/cowboys-zack-martin-agree-to-84m-extension




Meanwhile John Gruden is hoping Khalil Mack figures out his contract dispute soon:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...den-hopes-to-quickly-resolve-khalil-mack-deal

Aaron Donald continues his holdout as well:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ron-donald-absent-from-start-of-rams-minicamp

So does Taylor Lewan:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...s-lt-taylor-lewan-skipping-mandatory-minicamp

 

[iRobot]

players come and go, the franchise is what stands the test of time. i'm a fan of the cardinals, therefore i vote for a move that makes most sense for the cardinals.

sorry but that's asinine because keeping DJ happy and a cardinal for his NFL tenure is the move that makes the most sense for the Cardinals. you draft hoping you get a guy that is a star. he's shown he can be that.

im not saying throw the bank at the kid. im saying if you're Keim you give him a fair contract for his position, ranking in that position, and incentives for production.

fair is fair.

 

[cardpa]

I agree with K9 on this. Apply the tag if necessary, but in no case do I give him a big contract until he reports and goes through training camp. As far as the TD argument is concerned , that is dependent on what the OC is calling in the red zone. Bell may not have had the same number of opportunities to score as Johnson. I find that argument null and void unless someone can show similar numbers for both RBs in the red zone as scoring opportunities .

 

[splitsecond]

I would be all for giving him a contract if he hadn't been hurt and out for so long.

 

[oaken1]

The guaranteed money is guaranteed to the player no matter. Usually it is spread out over the amount of years of the contract but if they are cut early, the team is on the hook to pay out the rest. At least that is how I have always understood it. If someone else can chime in and confirm or deny? A player signs the contract with only the guaranteed money as the implied amount they will get for sure. The other dollar amounts and years are just fluff to make it look good on paper. The agents and/or players aren't stupid. They know what they are getting into when they sign.

signing bonus is all that is 100% guaranteed at signing. there can be other guarantees added in... things like roster bonuses,..which are paid out "if said player is on the active roster on X date"
such a roster bonus is why the redbirds dropped out of the Peyton Manning sweepstakes...we had a bonus due to kolb so we either had to cut hom or pay him...since peyton wasnt committing, we paid kolb and stepped away from manning...team didnt want to risk being completely without a QB at that point.
similar deal played a part in the timing of the honey badger release.

when a contract is signed those amounts get reported as guarantees but they are also safety nets for the teams...if a player fails to perform the team can either renegotiate or cut the player before that bonus is due.
that is why a contract may be reported as say... 50mil with 20mil signing bonus and 30mil in total guarantees.
there are also workout bonuses...often used to motivate vets...maybe a guy gets 300k for showing up for OTA's every year.... everything "Bonus" shows as guarantees when the contract is signed. but the only 100% rock solid guarantee is the signing bonus....all the others are void if a player is released or retires before the time comes. a player can also be forced to return signing bonus if they retire too soon after signing a new contract

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But that's the point. The players know the amount of guaranteed money they are getting when they sign the deal. For all intents and purposes, they are signing the deal based on the guaranteed portion of it and nothing else. They know this going in. So if the player gets hurt and only plays two out of the 4 years, does he give back a portion of his guaranteed money? No.

Of course not, but he got hurt playing the game for the team paying him. The team knows that can occur and factors it into the contract.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Interesting - i did not know that, and it's certainly surprising given the high profile that sports-related concussions have received for the last few years (including the movie, Concussion!). But, apparently true: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2016/05/11/cdc-study-nfl-suicide/84224104/

...dave

Hmm if I had time I’d like to read the study. I’d be interested to see some of the data breakdown.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bell was drafted 2 years earlier. DJ didn't start until late in 2015. He played all of 2016 except for part of the last game. That year he had almost twice as many TD's. I'll take 11 extra TD's with 3 more fumbles anytime. Being DJ has only been a full time starter for 2 years so comparing Bells 5 years of over 1300 yds ins't exactly an even comparison. When both players are on the field DJ is absolutely the better player & 2016 proves it. You know as well as I do that the Pro Bowl means nothing & is a popularity contest so that comparison means nothing as well. The only true side by side comparison we have is 2016 when both played the whole year.

Statistically that may be true, but stats don’t prove one player better than another. Just look at Fitz. He had multiple sub-1,000 yard seasons at his peak and i doubt every wr that had more yards those seasons were “better.”

Don’t get me wrong, I think DJ is an absolute stud. But Bell is too. And Bell has proven it with greater data. Many are the one-year wonders at RB in the nfl. I don’t think DJ is one, but then again most people didn’t expect ANY of the one-year wonders to be one-year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Very business-side point of view. Player side point of view looks like this... I have given this team a lot of production and shown I am skilled. You want some injury guarantees or language in the contract, fine... but running backs don't have a long life in the Not For Long league and I want to get paid SOONER than LATER for my family sake.

I don't blame him, I get it.

Can’t really say “I have given this team a lot production” when you’re DJ. Showed your skilled? Yes. Gave a lot of production? Not even close to accurate.

 

[ajcardfan]

Hmm if I had time I’d like to read the study. I’d be interested to see some of the data breakdown.

Nah, just be like 99% of Americans today and state your opinion like it was a fact straight from the mouth of God. Screw quantitative measurements and deductive reasoning. Much easier. Then, we can get to the fun stuff of personal insults.