Update: David Johnson sits out, wants contract extension

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I fully expect another 5 strong years out of DJ. Yes he is 26 years old. But he only has 550 touches in his three year NFL Career. Plenty of tread left on those tires.

You expect a lot then. More than the norm.

And I don’t consider 5 years “face of the franchise” stuff. But to each their own.

 

[cardncubfan]

Ouchie is correct. Over the last two decades the Cardinals have had a strong history of finding "great" RBs to fill out their roster:

Leeland McElroy
Adrian Murrell
Thomas Jones
Michael Pittman
Marcel Shipp
JJ Arrington
Beanie Wells
Larod Stephens-Howling
Ryan Williams
Rashard Mendenhall
Stepfan Taylor
Andre Ellington


So there is no need to worry about eventually losing DJ to FA... The DJs of the world are a dime a dozen.

Plus how many Great RBs have ever returned from a major wrist injury. I doubt DJ will ever be able to win the world wrist wresting championship now.

Sure DJ is probably the next face of the Franchise when that over paid Fitzgerald finally retires. Hopefully the Cardinals learned their lesson after overpaying Fitz for so many years. We all know how spoiling a superstar like Fitz turned out.

Man I really thought Ryan Williams was going to be the poo. Oh well.

 

[MadCardDisease]

And what’s he proven since then? We have no data set to determine what, if anything, that injury holds for the future, right?

Hey you said you couldn't think of another RB with a Dislocated wrist and I gave you one. You didn't say there had to be a data set.

 

[MadCardDisease]

You expect a lot then. More than the norm.

And I don’t consider 5 years “face of the franchise” stuff. But to each their own.

Face of the franchise is the guy they plaster on all of their media stuff. You don't have to play 20 years to be the face of the franchise.

I see DJ to be similar to Marshall Faulk. Faulk had his best run as a pro after his 3rd season. Beginning with his fourth season he put up 5 elite years at the RB position.

 

[MadCardDisease]

DJ missed all of last season with a wrist injury and he still lands at #3 on MJDs list of top RBs heading into the 2018 season:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...d-gurley-lead-nfls-top-running-backs-for-2018

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

DJ missed all of last season with a wrist injury and he still lands at #3 on MJDs list of top RBs heading into the 2018 season:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...d-gurley-lead-nfls-top-running-backs-for-2018

You’re misunderstanding me if you think I don’t value DJ. I do. Tremendously. Our success hinges on him being healthy and productive. I just think we need to be careful with throwing too much money at a guy coming off an injury that cost him an entire season, has only had a single (albeit great) season where he was “the man,” and plays a position with a notorious short career trajectory who is a little “older” than most of his contemporary fourth year backs.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Face of the franchise is the guy they plaster on all of their media stuff. You don't have to play 20 years to be the face of the franchise.

I see DJ to be similar to Marshall Faulk. Faulk had his best run as a pro after his 3rd season. Beginning with his fourth season he put up 5 elite years at the RB position.

dude... face of the franchise when Fitz retires is going to the be The Rosen One... whether he's good or bad. That's what comes with a first round pick at QB.

I love DJ... but I'm guessing he's got 4 more really good to great years. Once he hits 31, it's all downhill... for pretty much every back.

 

[HeHasRosen]

Lately?

34-14 in last three seasons.
2015 - won a playoff game and lost to super bowl champion broncos
2016 - win two playoff games and lost in conference finals to super bowl champion patriots
2016 - barely lost in divisional round

So they averaged 11+ wins in the regular season, won three playoff games, and two of the years were knocked out of the playoffs by the super bowl champions.

I mean unless the “expectations” were that they made the super bowl all three years it doesn’t look like they underperformed their expectations.

Not all 3 years but at least one. With that talent? Who else has that type of talent in the 3 major positions on offense? Yea id say its a bit underwhelming. Just my opinion i guess.

I don't think anyone is saying throw the bank at the dude, but a 42mil 5 years is a reasonable contract for where he is at in his career. That's around what Freeman got in his deal. Throw some protection for injury in there and i think its actually a bargain deal. I would expect him to outperform the contract.

So everyone is ok paying Bradford 10 mil a year and the guy is made of peanut brittle. But don't pay DJ around 8mil a year because were not sure about a wrist that was hurt in a freak play? I know where id put my money but that's just me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not all 3 years but at least one. With that talent? Who else has that type of talent in the 3 major positions on offense? Yea id say its a bit underwhelming. Just my opinion i guess.

I don't think anyone is saying throw the bank at the dude, but a 42mil 5 years is a reasonable contract for where he is at in his career. That's around what Freeman got in his deal. Throw some protection for injury in there and i think its actually a bargain deal. I would expect him to outperform the contract.

So everyone is ok paying Bradford 10 mil a year and the guy is made of peanut brittle. But don't pay DJ around 8mil a year because were not sure about a wrist that was hurt in a freak play? I know where id put my money but that's just me.

Here’s the issue - he’s not going to take that offer.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Here’s the issue - he’s not going to take that offer.

I think he does...the upfront and guaranteed amounts are what matters. If, as in my proposal, he is assured to see (16 bonus with 8 more guaranteed, that's 24 mil, he'll take it.

 

[HeHasRosen]

Here’s the issue - he’s not going to take that offer.

In which case, yes you cant do it. I think because of the injury its leverage in the Cards favor though. DJ doesn't have much much of a dog in this fight. It may work out better for us in the long run if we can get it done now

 

[WisconsinCard]

The Steelers and our own Chopper have a solid business plan/thought process. I'm just not as concerned about DJ having a career ending injury anytime soon. SK could use this process I'm just hoping they are able to get a deal done instead of franchising him for two years and then him moving on.

HB is hitting us for over 9 mil in dead cap money this year so I do understand the concern. I would hope that if SK extends DJ now that he and his agent allow for a contract that is structured better than HB's.

But DJ knows this and therefore could take less then that to get his money now. I mean there is no guarantee after next year for him, other then the F-tag for two years and that would pay him well. Maybe DJ would take less overall to get the guarantee of a big payday and financial security now. Cash in hand is worth more then he may or may not make in the future, I would think. So if they dropped a check in his hands for 12 mil as a signing bonus he may take less than that 28 or 30 mil that 2 years of F-tag gets him.

 

[oaken1]

Actually it doesn’t because then you also give him a bonus which means more guaranteed money. Which you’re on the hook for if he gets injured and never plays again. With the tag route you likely pay more for each individual year, but you’re never going to have dead money on yiur ledger. I’m not saying this is the route I’d choose to take, but that doesn’t mean I don’t understand the logistics and allure of such a design.

yeah... but the tag right now is around 14mil right?? isnt that what Bell is getting??

14mil twice, plus his 1.8mil for this year....puts you at 30mil,...

IMO 10mil a year is fair...dude brings a lot to the table in regards to skills...

I mentioned 5 yrs at 50mil before..... do that,... but have the last couple of years contain a fat roster bonus...you know how they work, fifth day of the league year or whatever..

go like 5 years, 50mil, 15mil signing bonus, 28mil total guarantees..

3mil base salary over the first 3 years, 3mil a year signing bonus, 6mil base salary the last two years...6mil roster bonus next march,.... another 6mil roster bonus in march of 2021...and 500k workout bonus each of the next two years

that puts 24mil in his hands over the next 8 months.... but protects the team for the last couple years of the contract...with a built in out for 2021...if he isnt producing we can cut him before that second 6mil bonus is due.... we would have some dead money, yes... but Keim would also be able to see his move before he has to make it so he would have time to renegotiate or jockey other contracts... biggest cap hit would be next season, at about 12.5mil

 

[MadCardDisease]

dude... face of the franchise when Fitz retires is going to the be The Rosen One... whether he's good or bad. That's what comes with a first round pick at QB.

I hope you are right. Rosen being good that is.

I love DJ... but I'm guessing he's got 4 more really good to great years. Once he hits 31, it's all downhill... for pretty much every back.

Which is why signing him to a 4 year extension makes sense. You get DJ in his prime for at least 4 years and in the 5th year you can cut him with little cap implication if he is starting to show his age.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I hope you are right. Rosen being good that is.



Which is why signing him to a 4 year extension makes sense. You get DJ in his prime for at least 4 years and in the 5th year you can cut him with little cap implication if he is starting to show his age.

If the dollars and guarantee are right, absolutely. But it’s not a given DJ will agree to a reasonable contract given the fact set. I’m not saying he won’t, but it seems like most around here are of the “just pay the man” mindset which is . . . to be frank . . . stupid.

(Not saying you are saying that, just seems the over-arching mindset)

 

[Jetstream Green]

He will get his contract eventually, and yes it will be with the Cardinals. He's our lone young offensive weapon with the possibilities of Rosen. Talking about this hold out is just a waste of energy, and he will be playing come the season opener in my opinion because that is something both the Cardinals and Johnson both have as an objective... since I am not the front office, I do not have the incentive to guess the amount lol

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

If the dollars and guarantee are right, absolutely. But it’s not a given DJ will agree to a reasonable contract given the fact set. I’m not saying he won’t, but it seems like most around here are of the “just pay the man” mindset which is . . . to be frank . . . stupid.

(Not saying you are saying that, just seems the over-arching mindset)

PTM does not mean pay him whatever. You seem to think he is going to go above and beyond greedy when there is ZERO evidence pointing to him being anything other than a class act.

 

[Passepartout]

Really hope that they can give him a deal. But still no excuse over on the sitting out. As thought he was better than that.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Really hope that they can give him a deal. But still no excuse over on the sitting out. As thought he was better than that.

No agent is going to allow a client in his situation do otherwise.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

PTM does not mean pay him whatever. You seem to think he is going to go above and beyond greedy when there is ZERO evidence pointing to him being anything other than a class act.

Everyone’s argument for why he’s right to hold out is because rbs have short careers. He’s going to try to get as much as he can. And I don’t begrudge him for doing so. His and the teams interests are opposed to each other in a salary negotiation. And he doesn’t have to be “greedy” to want more than what’s prudent for the team to offer.

 

[ajcardfan]

Everyone’s argument for why he’s right to hold out is because rbs have short careers. He’s going to try to get as much as he can. And I don’t begrudge him for doing so. His and the teams interests are opposed to each other in a salary negotiation. And he doesn’t have to be “greedy” to want more than what’s prudent for the team to offer.

I dont think anyone of us here are saying "Just sign the man no matter how much money it costs."

I do trust Keim to make sure the deal is not crippling the team. Hearing him talking about the HB deal he knows it was a mistake

 

[gimpy]

Well, I don't care one way or the other. He is under contract. Hold him to it --- or not.

According to most on here, rb's can be had very easily. Or is that not the case now?

 

[Cardiac]

Well, I don't care one way or the other. He is under contract. Hold him to it --- or not.

According to most on here, rb's can be had very easily. Or is that not the case now?

Sure they can but DJ is a very very very elite RB and there aren't many of those.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Everyone’s argument for why he’s right to hold out is because rbs have short careers. He’s going to try to get as much as he can. And I don’t begrudge him for doing so. His and the teams interests are opposed to each other in a salary negotiation. And he doesn’t have to be “greedy” to want more than what’s prudent for the team to offer.

My argument is and has been that DJ has outplayed his rookie contract and deserves to be compensated as such. This is the NFL and it doesn't matter what position you play, there is always a risk of suffering a major injury anytime you hit the playing field. That is why several other players from his draft class are holding out as well for contract extensions.

These players are not holding out because they are not team players. They are holding out to avoid injury until their contract disputes are fixed.

Keim has a salary cap guy who knows exactly what the Cardinals can afford at the RB position. I'm sure the deal will eventually get done and I'm sure it will ultimately fit within the Cardinals cap constraints. It's not like the Cardinals didn't see this coming.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My argument is and has been that DJ has outplayed his rookie contract and deserves to be compensated as such. This is the NFL and it doesn't matter what position you play, there is always a risk of suffering a major injury anytime you hit the playing field. That is why several other players from his draft class are holding out as well for contract extensions.

These players are not holding out because they are not team players. They are holding out to avoid injury until their contract disputes are fixed.

Keim has a salary cap guy who knows exactly what the Cardinals can afford at the RB position. I'm sure the deal will eventually get done and I'm sure it will ultimately fit within the Cardinals cap constraints. It's not like the Cardinals didn't see this coming.

Primary rule for contracts - you NEVER pay a man for what he’s done, but for what you expect him to do. Do NOT pay for past performance. That’s a sure way to sink your franchise.