Updated GM Tiering

[Bodha]

Because Ricky can't shoot.

If we absolutely need a shooting PG, give it to Booker while Ball stands off him.

Yeah, we already covered this, PGs need to score. Not just hand it off. Apparently you missed it:

The top 14 PG's in the NBA all avg 17 ppg and above. All of them. Look it up

Wall
Lowry
Curry
Russ
Kyrie
Bledsoe
Paul
Harden
Hill
Thomas
Conley
Lillard
Walker


did I miss anybody? Tony Parker. OK thats one. But thats why I said "Todays NBA". Today doesnt apply to 35 year old PGs.

 

[3rdside]

Yeah, we already covered this, PGs need to score. Not just hand it off. Apparently you missed it:

The top 14 PG's in the NBA all avg 17 ppg and above. All of them. Look it up

Wall
Lowry
Curry
Russ
Kyrie
Bledsoe
Paul
Harden
Hill
Thomas
Conley
Lillard
Walker


did I miss anybody? Tony Parker. OK thats one. But thats why I said "Todays NBA". Today doesnt apply to 35 year old PGs.

I would take Kidd over all of them except Curry and maybe Paul.

 

[Phrazbit]

Possibly. Although I doubt it. De'angelo is hovering around 14ppg and he was considered a better prospect than Lonzo at draft time.

Lonzo is terrific distributor. But thats not enough. Look at Ricky Rubio. Amazing facilitator but he drags his team down with his paltry 10 ppg. PGs have to be scorers nowadays if you want to win.

Ball is held in much higher reguard than Russell was.

 

[Bodha]

I would take Kidd over all of them except Curry and maybe Paul.

Alright. And youd win alot of games it were 1998. You can argue in the face of overwhelming stats but fact is PGs need to score if you want to win in 2017.

Ball is held in much higher reguard than Russell was.

I disagree. Granted the 2015 draft was thinner in the top 5, but De'angelo was a clear cut #2 overall. Whereas Lonzo is an unknown if LA doesnt take him.

 

[3rdside]

Alright. And youd win alot of games it were 1998. You can argue in the face of overwhelming stats but fact is PGs need to score if you want to win in 2017.

again, says who? you're saying Kidd couldn't succeed today and that's just not true.

 

[Bodha]

again, says who? you're saying Kidd couldn't succeed today and that's just not true.

Hey, fair enough.

In the hypothetical not reality scenario future HOF player Jason Kidd were magically 19 again in 2017, who knows how effective he'd be.


But back to earth, actual PGs in 2017 need to be scorers as supported by the fact the top 20 PGs in the NBA are all significant scorers.

 

[3rdside]

And all sprinters need to be 6ft or shorter, til Bolt came along...just because it looks like something is telling you something doesn't make it fact.

 

[Bodha]

And all sprinters need to be 6ft or shorter, til Bolt came along...just because it looks like something is telling you something doesn't make it fact.

Youre banking on the exception to the rule is akin to people whos retirement strategy is winning the lottery.

Just because it rarely happens doesnt mean it cant happen!

Hey...you win that one.

 

[3rdside]

sports is so fluid it's not funny and a unicorn can change anything.

And while I don't think Ball is that much of a unicorn - he probably won't be as good as Kidd imo unless his 3pt and rim shooting %'s hold up, in which case all bets are off - but put him alongside Booker and Chriss and we could be onto something magical.

I'll never forget Watson and McD talking about Chriss's pre-draft workout with us - they couldn't stop going on about how he could catch a lob from anywhere. I am SALIVATING at the thought of Ball and Chriss doing that for us night in night out, with Booker going for 30 a game, after the garbage we've put up with for years now.

 

[elindholm]

Right now it seems VERY likely we make a deal with Sacramento. My growing sense is that the player we want is Isaac.

I'd be good with that. Issac plus an additional asset would be a good yield from this lottery result.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Gambo is now saying the Suns dream scenario is drafting Fox at 4 and trading with Orlando or Sacramento to get Isaac.

He says that would involve multiple players and picks.

 

[Chaplin]

Gambo is now saying the Suns dream scenario is drafting Fox at 4 and trading with Orlando or Sacramento to get Isaac.

He says that would involve multiple players and picks.

The question I would have is IF we did draft Fox at 4 and Orlando really wanted him, who would Sacramento take at 5? All I've heard is that they were all in on Fox, but no other player. There's a bit of risk because IMO Isaac is absolutely worth a #5 pick.

 

[hsandhu]

Gambo is now saying the Suns dream scenario is drafting Fox at 4 and trading with Orlando or Sacramento to get Isaac.

He says that would involve multiple players and picks.

Gambo seems all over the place as opposed to past years, probably because the top players are much closer than last couple seasons.

He says they are picking between tatum and fox at 4, but dream scenario is get fox at 4 and issac at 5/6, why not tatum then???

 

[devilalum]

A formula for building a super team does not exist. This is because the unique pieces of any super team cannot be replicated.

All you can do is try and accumulate the best players possible then tweek your roster until you get the chemistry right.


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[Bodha]

Gambo is now saying the Suns dream scenario is drafting Fox at 4 and trading with Orlando or Sacramento to get Isaac.

He says that would involve multiple players and picks.

2 more 19 year olds?

Might as well change our name to the Phoenix Sons, because we are running a daycare out here.


With that said, id happily trade away Bledsoe if it means we get Fox+Isaac.

 

[devilalum]

2 more 19 year olds?

Might as well change our name to the Phoenix Sons, because we are running a daycare out here.


With that said, id happily trade away Bledsoe if it means we get Fox+Isaac.

And I'm guessing Bledsoe would be part of that deal which would bring the average age down even more.


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[Bodha]

If they are really planning on building a team entirely out of teenagers, then it is imperative we get a new coach.

One the kids will respect and can properly grow them. Like a BA type.

Watson is not a head coach. The kids look at him like a substitute teacher. You know this guy is a hack and you immediately have no respect for their authority.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Gambo seems all over the place as opposed to past years, probably because the top players are much closer than last couple seasons.

He says they are picking between tatum and fox at 4, but dream scenario is get fox at 4 and issac at 5/6, why not tatum then???

He perfectly called the last draft the day of (Pick Bender and acquire another pick for Chriss). He is friends with multiple people including Sarver in the organization.

That being said, he thinks this dream scenario is very difficult.

 

[Phrazbit]

Alright. And youd win alot of games it were 1998. You can argue in the face of overwhelming stats but fact is PGs need to score if you want to win in 2017.



I disagree. Granted the 2015 draft was thinner in the top 5, but De'angelo was a clear cut #2 overall. Whereas Lonzo is an unknown if LA doesnt take him.

Nah, this draft is much much stronger, Fox and Jackson would probably go ahead of De'Angelo is he were in this draft and Ball unquestionably would have. There is a significant more "this kid is a potential superstar" buzz around Ball than there ever was with De'Angelo.

 

[elindholm]

Gambo seems all over the place as opposed to past years, probably because the top players are much closer than last couple seasons.

He says they are picking between tatum and fox at 4, but dream scenario is get fox at 4 and issac at 5/6, why not tatum then???

Good question. I see Tatum as slightly redundant with Warren, and Isaac as slightly redundant with Chriss. So, between Warren and Chriss, who is the more promising building block? Whichever one you choose, then you look to upgrade the other guy.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I am guessing that Warren or Bender would be part of the package to move back into the 1st.

 

[devilalum]

Good question. I see Tatum as slightly redundant with Warren, and Isaac as slightly redundant with Chriss. So, between Warren and Chriss, who is the more promising building block? Whichever one you choose, then you look to upgrade the other guy.

I wouldn't trade Chris's for the number one pick in this draft. Warren is a quality asset but not elite by any standard.


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