Upgraded Draft and Trades Plan

[Mitch]

Mitch,

Please explain to me your reasoning for this. I am not trying to be rude, challenge you, or arguing I am just puzzled why you think Leinart is a poor fit and what tools you see in St. Pierre that makes him a good fit.

You may have posted this somewhere before, but I am not finding it. I am not hating on you for your love of St. Pierre I just want to know what you see in him that made you so confident in him.

So if you would, give me a "scouting report" so to speak on St. Pierre and also an analysis on how St. Pierre's tools apply to Whiz's system versus why Leinart's don't.

Thanks.

For those who interpret my remarks as "Whiz hates Matt"...that's not what I am saying. In my opinion, I believe that for his system, Whiz favors St. Pierre.

It comes down to four things: (1) decision making; (2) footwork; (3) quickness of release; and (4) accuracy.

What holds Matt back in this system is he's not as nearly decisive as Warner, and he has a slower, more loopy release (notice how many of Matt's passes are too high and soft? He has a tendency to get the nose of the football too high on his release). Warner snaps the ball on his tight release. So does St. Pierre. St. Pierre has also played in Whiz's system longer, which helps to make him more decisive.

Can Leinart improve in all these areas? He already has in some. His footwork is much better, for example. But the slow and high release, combined with his lack of genuine arm strength, continue to be issues that Matt needs to correct in order for him to consistently make the throws that Whiz wants in his system. A couple times this year, Matt stepped into throws over the middle...that was good sign. And when he commits early to a long throw, like the one he hit Fitz with in the New England game, he's got good touch.

But QB play in the NFL these days is all about waiting in the pocket for that precise instant when a WR gets a second's separation from his defender...and at that exact moment the QB must be able to get the ball out quickly and accurately.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The problem is St. Pierre didn't win a Heisman, an NCAA Championship, nor was he drafted #10 in the first round..

But i here he was one helluva QB during his high school career in Massachusettes. I think Whiz is already looking at the QB from this years state champion BC High, Bill Kiley.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

For those who interpret my remarks as "Whiz hates Matt"...that's not what I am saying. In my opinion, I believe that for his system, Whiz favors St. Pierre.

It comes down to four things: (1) decision making; (2) footwork; (3) quickness of release; and (4) accuracy.

What holds Matt back in this system is he's not as nearly decisive as Warner, and he has a slower, more loopy release (notice how many of Matt's passes are too high and soft? He has a tendency to get the nose of the football too high on his release). Warner snaps the ball on his tight release. So does St. Pierre. St. Pierre has also played in Whiz's system longer, which helps to make him more decisive.

Can Leinart improve in all these areas? He already has in some. His footwork is much better, for example. But the slow and high release, combined with his lack of genuine arm strength, continue to be issues that Matt needs to correct in order for him to consistently make the throws that Whiz wants in his system. A couple times this year, Matt stepped into throws over the middle...that was good sign. And when he commits early to a long throw, like the one he hit Fitz with in the New England game, he's got good touch.

But QB play in the NFL these days is all about waiting in the pocket for that precise instant when a WR gets a second's separation from his defender...and at that exact moment the QB must be able to get the ball out quickly and accurately.

Your mistake is saying that St.Savior has played in Whiz's system longer. That is false. He's been in the system longer but has only played 1 play. Leinart has actually started games in Whiz's system and thrown more than 1 pass. St.Savior, no matter how much he has practiced, or played in the pre-season, has no concept of what actual game speed is. So you have no way of knowing what his decision making process is.He may get out there and stare at the rush when they play for real.

I compare it to guys i see in bball. I see guys hit shot after shot in warmups and practice but when the real game starts they can't make a thing. St. Savior is what he is,an insurance policy in case Warner and Leinart go down and Whiz isn't stuck in the same boat as having to count on a street FA like Tim Rattay or Tim Hasselback.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Do you guys have blinders on? Seriously. Leinart is not Whiz's guy. If he was, would have started Warner over him? Would he have promised St. Pierre a legitmate shot at winning the #2? That was not a token gesture...look at the timing of it: the eve of free agency with the Chiefs and Haley making overtures at St. Pierre.

Do you have a link supporting these alligations? If so please forward it to the league office's so they can file tampering charges against the Chiefs and Halley.

I also tend to disagree with the BSP has been in Whiz's system longer than ML. Since BSP just joined the club last year. ML was here when Whiz became the HC, so he has been in Whiz's system longer.

If you're talking about in P-burg then wouldn't that have been Cower's system? If that is what you're counting then wouldn't it be Halley's system now?

Really if you think about it KW, ML, and BSP have been in Whiz's system the same length of time. Because IMO the system just came to be in the last two years.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Just for once abomb, you should give me some credit for being right about a dark horse such as St. Pierre. I predicted the Chiefs would go after him. They did. I predicted Whiz would make it a priority to have him back. Done.

This is comedic gold.

 

[john h]

The last one was a flop...the Bills signed TO and Leinart wants to stay.

Despite Leinart wanting to stay...I still believe the Cardinals will trade him. I know this is hard for many of you, but honestly, if Leinart was that highly regarded by the coaching staff, would Whiz have persuaded Brian St. Pierre to re-sign with the team with the promise that he would compete for the #2 QB job? Whiz knew all along that if Warner re-signed the team would try to deal Leinart, which is why he was so keen on keeping St. Pierre.

The other thing is, if Leinart is traded, the Cardinals will sign Charlie Batch, another QB well versed in Whiz's system, as added insurance.

Thus, the Cardinals trade QB Matt Leinart to the New York Jets for their 2nd and 7th round draft picks.

The key move of the off-season beyond re-signing Kurt Warner and adding CB Bryant McFadden, will be their signing of two key veterans: LB Derrick Brooks and RB Warrick Dunn.

Brooks shifts next to Gerald Hayes and Karlos Dansby gets switched to the edge, where he will earn his first ticket the Pro Bowl. In Brooks the team gets a swift, playmaking WILB who is equally adept at chasing down the run as he is at providing sticky coverage. The man wants a ring...and this is his chance. And he will view it as such.

Dunn, will replace Arrington as the team's specialty spread back. Dunn still has the ability to thrive in that role. And he will be an instant fan favorite.

I also believe the Cardinals will eventually sign DT/DE Mike Wright, who will be a key player in the defensive line rotation.

Other signings: DE Bertrand Berry; LB Monty Beisel; CB Ralph Brown; FB Mike Karney;

With these moves in mind: here's how the draft goes:

Ist Round (#31): Primary Focus: RB. The Cardinals expect to be able to choose among the following RBs: Donald Brown and LeShon McCoy. Both are in the "Fast Willie Parker" mold and either would make Whiz and company happy.

2nd Round (#52, from NYJ): Primary Focus: LB. The four candidates here are: Connor Barwin, Michael Johnson (if he slides as some suspect), Lawrence Sidbury and Marcus Freeman. The secret is the Cardinals love Freeman of Ohio St., who may well be the true 2nd round sleeper of this draft. He's efficient and highly productive. But, Barwin is also an intriguing option here is he slide this far, as he is the kind of versatile player the Cardinals like.

2nd Round (#63): Primary Focus: OL. The hope is that the Cardinals will be able to choose from C/G Eric Wood and G Kraig Urbik...and if both are there, Urbick is the guy they want. He's the kind of mauler that Russ Grimm loves.

3rd Round (#95): Primary Target: FS. The Cardinals desperately need a true centerfielder for their nickel and dime packages. The hope is that the guy they love, David Bruton of Notre Dame is sitting there. If not, they like Derek Pegues of Mississippi St. almost just as much. Bruton had one of the best combines of any player and is physically gifted.

The rest of the draft will be BPA...

Note: it would not surprise me if the Cardinals traded up two of their picks to select DE/OLB Paul Kruger of Utah.

You know a lot more than me and I would not out guess any of your picks. You did not address what you think will happen to Boldin? I really think he will be traded and possible on draft day when some team does not get a receiver they hoped to get. He should be worth a #1 pick but it depends on just how the Cards see him a team players or a player who will bring bad vibes because he was not traded. A middle of the first round pick could bring us a starter for next year and help our cap space.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

You know a lot more than me and I would not out guess any of your picks. You did not address what you think will happen to Boldin? I really think he will be traded and possible on draft day when some team does not get a receiver they hoped to get. He should be worth a #1 pick but it depends on just how the Cards see him a team players or a player who will bring bad vibes because he was not traded. A middle of the first round pick could bring us a starter for next year and help our cap space.

There are 6 or 7 wideouts with first or second round grades this year. Most teams with that as a priority will have an opportunity to select one. The "Q" market is not quite as great as some believe. Last year, when no wideout was selected in the first round, would have been the ideal for moving Boldin.

PS: I am of those who believe that "Q" is not going anywhere soon.

 

[john h]

Just for once abomb, you should give me some credit for being right about a dark horse such as St. Pierre. I predicted the Chiefs would go after him. They did. I predicted Whiz would make it a priority to have him back. Done.

The problem is St. Pierre didn't win a Heisman, an NCAA Championship, nor was he drafted #10 in the first round. But...he's a better fit than Leinart in Whiz's system. This is not to denigrate Leinart, per se. He'll be a good fit somewhere else.

Just from casual observation of Whiz, Leinart, and StPierre on the sidelines all year I got the distinct impression that St Pierre was more into the game and Whiz was talking to him more than Leinart. What that means may mean nothing but if someone asked me who was the backup to Kurt and I did not know anything about this team other than watching the game and sideline I would have guessed that St Pierre was the backup.

What would Matt be worth in a trade. I have zero idea. If a team was in bad need of a young QB why would they not take a guy who was drafted around the #12 spot in the draft and was considered by many to be the best QB in the draft. Is there a better QB coming out this year? I have no idea. There has to be a decent market of Matt. He yet may be a big time NFL QB. The chances of Kurt making it through two seasons without some injuries that would keep him out for a few games I think are no better than 50/50 due to his age and the fact he hangs in there until the last second and takes the hit. He has to be one of the toughest QB's I have ever seen. I think we forget just how big he is sometimes. What is it? 6'3" and 225? Would the Cards really consider his offer of covering 1 million of Boldins salary? Would Boldin have to much pride to accept it? Would the Cardinals have to much pride to accept it? (The old Cardinals would have taken a quart of Kurts blood if he offered it.)

 

[Urubu Rei]

Anyways, I don't think the Jets would be a viable landing spot for Leinart.

They still have the same GM that passed on him in draft day.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think he'd be taken more seriously if we haven't had almost a decade of him pushing the #3 QB constantly. Let's review. He said many of the same things about Chris Greisen, Preston Parsons and Shane Boyd. He did move up to a #2 QB in Josh McCown, between Parsons and Boyd, along the way there.

I guess by the "spaghetti theory", sooner or later, he'll be 'right' about one of these backups. I actually thought Greisen could play, but I can't see what he sees in St. Pierre. Just like i couldn't see what he saw in those other backups.

This.

 

[Skkorpion]

Do you have a link supporting these alligations? If so please forward it to the league office's so they can file tampering charges against the Chiefs and Halley.

Come on, that sounds like a cute gotcha but it misses the mark. St. Pierre was not under contract and was free to negotiate with anybody.

QB discussions always get intense and all any of us are doing is speculating. We've come a long way in a short time when we are arguing the merits of our 3rd QB, haven't we? I hope those bad old days are gone forever.

 

[dylanbw]

Brooks won a ring with the Tampa Bay at Super Bowl XXXVII

Yeah, this was the part where Mitch lost me......you can't say "Brooks wants a ring" when he already has one.....also, did Mitch even see Brooks play in that game vs. the Raiders....oooh fah.....Michael Bush is still running.....

 

[WisconsinCard]

Come on, that sounds like a cute gotcha but it misses the mark. St. Pierre was not under contract and was free to negotiate with anybody.
QB discussions always get intense and all any of us are doing is speculating. We've come a long way in a short time when we are arguing the merits of our 3rd QB, haven't we? I hope those bad old days are gone forever.

Mitch stated that BSP signed with us the day before F/A started. So he was still under contract with the cards.

Link added

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1987894&postcount=16

 

[nationsrj]

the only thing that BSP was told is that he will compete for the No. 2 spot.

It is just like last year with Matt and Kurt competing for the No. 1 spot.
Kurt won the competition and Matt is No. 2.

Whiz has always stated he wants people to compete for spots on the team.
Whiz will give BSP and Matt legit shots at No. 2 and go with whoever wins
the competition. Both players know that performance will be the criteria used to decide the better player. They have evidence that it will work that way from last year.

I do not believe Matt will be traded, unless he loses the competition. Then I could see him being traded to get some value for him.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

the only thing that BSP was told is that he will compete for the No. 2 spot.

It is just like last year with Matt and Kurt competing for the No. 1 spot.
Kurt won the competition and Matt is No. 2.

Whiz has always stated he wants people to compete for spots on the team.
Whiz will give BSP and Matt legit shots at No. 2 and go with whoever wins
the competition. Both players know that performance will be the criteria used to decide the better player. They have evidence that it will work that way from last year.

I do not believe Matt will be traded, unless he loses the competition. Then I could see him being traded to get some value for him.

... in Matt's mind, I'm fairly certain... he's competing with Kurt.

B-St. Pierre is not even an afterthought.

 

[WisconsinCard]

... in Matt's mind, I'm fairly certain... he's competing with Kurt.

B-St. Pierre is not even an afterthought.

I would certainly hope so. If he is still in the plans (QBOF) then he must prepare as if he the starter anyway.

 

[nationsrj]

I agree that Matt wants to be No. 1, but he has to be aware that BSP wants to take his spot on the roster. Whiz is just saying to Matt, don't think that the job is his and he better compete hard to keep his position on the team.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Mitch,

What do you think about trading Matt Leinart? I know everyone has asked your opinion about this over and over but so far you haven't given us anything.

 

[Mitch]

Funny, Chris!

Since you asked...

If the cap hits on Leinart the next two years are what Darren Urban says...and the Cardinals do not have to pay him a $15M bonus next year, I am actually much more on board about keeping him.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Funny, Chris!

Since you asked...

If the cap hits on Leinart the next two years are what Darren Urban says...and the Cardinals do not have to pay him a $15M bonus next year, I am actually much more on board about keeping him.

Sorry just razzing you. Glad you took it well. :claphat:

A second and a sixth is a reasonable trade offer.

 

[BW52]

That's a very good point Zeno.

Agreed.Too bad Mitch can`t realize that wherever St.Pierre has been in the league everyone has agreed to that fact(St Pierre makes a fine 3rd QB and no more)

 

[Skkorpion]

Agreed.Too bad Mitch can`t realize that wherever St.Pierre has been in the league everyone has agreed to that fact(St Pierre makes a fine 3rd QB and no more)

If "everyone" has made that judgment based on his total number of passes in the NFL (Is it one or is it more?), then everyone may be wrong and St. Pierre maybe shouldn't be in the league at all.

Making any kind of a sweeping statement based on a non-existent body of work is no sillier than Mitch's belief that St. Pierre can play.

Come on BW, open your mind to possibilities. You are an old fart like me. Too sure of stuff. Sometimes, I do wonder if Mitch is smoking some of that wacky tobaccy I did back in the sixties. This time? He's right. I know it for certain. Cross my heart hope to die.

 

[BW52]

If "everyone" has made that judgment based on his total number of passes in the NFL (Is it one or is it more?), then everyone may be wrong and St. Pierre maybe shouldn't be in the league at all.

Making any kind of a sweeping statement based on a non-existent body of work is no sillier than Mitch's belief that St. Pierre can play.

Come on BW, open your mind to possibilities. You are an old fart like me. Too sure of stuff. Sometimes, I do wonder if Mitch is smoking some of that wacky tobaccy I did back in the sixties. This time? He's right. I know it for certain. Cross my heart hope to die.

St.Pierre has been in the league what? 5 years or more and still hasn`t gotten into more than a game or two.Do you think his hanging around in the league is because of his knowledge of the coaches system or his dazzling skills? Simple case of right place right time IMO.While having 3 QBs who the coach has faith in the ability to run his system is a nice option ( especially when the 3rd QB is making amillion bucks).I question the need for a 3rd QB to be paid more than the minimum.How often do they even play?