USA vs. Argentina....

bratwurst

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Couldn't happen to a better league.

Sometimes, things have to go very sour before they turn around. Hopefully this wakes the nba up.
 

slinslin

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Lars is acting like Larry Brown can't do no wrong.

He had Richard Jefferson, Stephon Marbury and Dwayne Wade in for most of the 4th quarter who were just horrible.

Larry Brown was the wrong coach for these guys and he has done a bad job.

Larry Brown doesn't know how to adjust his coaching to fit the players he got.
 

slinslin

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bratwurst said:
Couldn't happen to a better league.

Sometimes, things have to go very sour before they turn around. Hopefully this wakes the nba up.

Team USA has little to do with the NBA. NBA ratings and income are going up that's the bottom line.

If you don't like it nobody cares. Not everyone can like it.
 

bratwurst

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SlinSlin:

From the same article you posted - which was good if you can get past the horrible race card argument, here is what I am basically trying to say.

"The international style of basketball play is superior to the American game, particularly the NBA game. The wide lane, shorter 3-pointer and prevalence of zone defenses limit the effectiveness of the NBA's two-man game. You can't have three guys stand on one side of the court and talk to Spike Lee while your two best players go two-on-two on the other side. It's boring, and it doesn't work in international play."

You're right - I don't like the NBA and not everyone will or should. But the NBA used to be my favorite league. I used to watch 2 or 3 games a night on NBA League Pass. Now I might watch 3 games a season. The viewpoint I have of the league is shared by many people I have spoken to. Things aren't as rosy in nba land as you may think they are by the ratings and income.

Edit just to add - I think some of the "hatred" of this team has more to do with people souring on the NBA and its players than the idea that they are black. Thats the reason why I made my initial comment. This team represents the NBA and its players to me. It doesn't represent the USA. I say send the college players again, or better yet, a mix of college and pro.
 
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Cheesebeef

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slinslin said:
Lars did you ever check out this article?

After your hiphop, wrestling and NBA comments I'd guess not.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=whitlock/040826

if you think there's any ahred of truth to this article you are - too put it bluntly - out of your mind and are you inferring that Lar sis someone borderline racist with your post.

Hell - I remember a ton of people bashing the US Hocket team in Nagano after their shameful performance on and off the court - does that mean we hate all white people also. Whitlock is an absolute who wrote an article to make a name for himself - and if he really doe sbelieve what he wrote - how come we all weren't rooting against the Dream Team in 2000 (don't remember a lot of white guys on that club) or the 1996 club (don't remember a whole lot of White GUys on that club either) - but what I do remember is the the US having disdain for the 1994 US team who was grabbing their crotches and acting like complete and utter asses out there - was it because they were black or was it because they were making the USA look bad in representing us - same goes here and to think otherwise is just as much mlunacy as believeing we'll compete for the 3rd spot in the playoffs and have more talent than the Kings.
 

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Lars the Red said:
Ya, Larry sucks. Just another shining example of the man keepin' 'em down. What a load. IF they buy into his game plan, they're playing for the gold. They didn't. It was a cluster throughout, and now it's going to be everyone's fault but the sacks of crap that can't play team basketball.

He refused to adjust with the team that he had. For some reason Larry Brown acted like this was the exact same team that won him the title, this wasn't. Just playing good D may work in the NBA but ti doesn't work in international play.

He continued putting the same starting lineup on the floor every game even though it was proven time and time again that those players weren't effective during exhibition games and the tournament itself but he refused to change at all. There were players like Marion, James and Wade that were buying into the system but he played them sparingly (and other players that might have gone with his system such as Amare hardly played at all). While guys like Richard Jefferson and Stephon Marbury (played well one game a piece and thats it) but yet are in the starting lineup every game. Why?! His substitutional patterns were awful and deserve major criticism

Larry Brown was a horrible coach throughout the tournament and he deserves just as much criticism as the committee that put this team together, plain and simple.
 

George O'Brien

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Ginobili scores 29 for Argentina

Manu Ginobili scored 29 points to lead his nation to another
victory over the country that used to dominate the sport, an 89-81
win in the Olympic semifinals Friday night.

For the first time since 1988, the gold medal will not go to the
Americans. And for the first time since pro players were added for
the original Dream Team in 1992, the United States will not be the
Olympic champion.

Argentina, with almost the same roster that made history in 2002
by becoming the first team to defeat a U.S. squad of NBA players,
will compete for the gold medal against the winner of Friday's late
game between Lithuania and Italy.

The Argentines were the better passers, shooters and defenders.
They confronted the Americans with a mixture of man-to-man and zone
defenses, and confounded them with an assortment of back picks that
turned the start of the second half into a layup drill.

Argentina's players celebrated wildly when the game ended, and
the crowd yelled ``Ole!'' U.S. coach Larry Brown walked over and
gave a handshake and hug to his Argentine counterpart, Ruben
Magnano, who played for Argentina against the first Dream Team in
Barcelona.

A dozen years later, Magnano's team became the first to knock
America out of gold medal contention since the Soviet Union did it
in Seoul in 1988.

NBA commissioner David Stern attended the third loss of the
Athens Games for the Americans, who entered the tournament with a
109-2 record in prior Olympics.

Their first loss to Puerto Rico was shocking for its
decisiveness, and their second to Lithuania finally got the message
across to the players on the young U.S. roster that the level of
the competition was a whole lot better than they had imagined.

The U.S. team had been playing better since, and its best effort
came Thursday in a victory over previously undefeated Spain.

But just a day later, they went back to missing 3-point shots,
didn't get a breakout performance from any of their NBA stars and
couldn't make a sustained comeback after they fell behind by a
double-digit margin.

The first half ended with Argentina ahead 43-38 after its big
men outplayed the Americans and showed themselves capable of
playing with as much flair as anyone.

The half's prettiest play came on the 3-on-1 break when Hugo
Sconochini, one of the team's elder statesmen, tossed a nifty
behind-the-back pass to Alejandro Montecchia for a high-arching
layup over Richard Jefferson that gave Argentina a 42-33 lead.

The Americans shot just 36 percent in the first half and didn't
hit their first 3-pointer -- missing their first five -- until LeBron
James made one 30 seconds before halftime.

Argentina shot 54 percent overall and 11-for-22 from 3-point
range, while the Americans finished just 32-for-77 (42 percent) and
3-for-11 on 3s. Stephon Marbury</a> led the U.S. team with 18 points,
and Tim Duncan had just 10 while being limited to 19{ minutes
because of foul trouble.

The third quarter began with Ginobili hitting a wide-open
3-pointer, Duncan picking up his third foul, Luis Scola, Ginobili
and Fabricio Oberto getting inside for layups, and Marbury clanging
a driving shot off the side of the backboard.
Suddenly, the Americans were down 53-40 and on the verge of
having the game get away from them.

It soon did. Duncan was whistled for his fourth foul with 7:41
left in the third quarter, causing Brown to jump out of his chair
and scream "NO!"

Next came a wide-open 3 from the right corner by Ginobili, and
the lead was up to 16 -- 56-40.

The Americans quickly got their deficit down to six, but
Montecchia and Ruben Wolkowyski knocked down 3s, and Ginobili added
a rare four-point play -- just like the one from Lithuania's Sarunas
Jasikevicius that doomed the Americans in their opening-round loss
-- to make it 70-57 entering the fourth quarter.

The Americans trailed 76-65 when Duncan fouled out with five
minutes left for hitting Ginobili with a hip check. The U.S. team
eventually went to a trap and a full-court press in an effort to
climb back, but Argentina handled it with aplomb and didn't let the
Americans get closer than eight.
 

sly fly

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Good thing I didn't watch this one.

Let me first state something right off the bat. This doesn't mean Argentina is superior to the US in ball. Put Shaq, Kobe, Kidd, and KG in that lineup and you have an Argentinian ass-whooping.

So, what would that prove? Nothing. The US is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

This Olympic experience has been a wake-up call for "some" NBA players who think their game didn't need work. Practice? Who needs practice? You get the picture.

How many young players did this team have? Amare, Anthony, and Lebron are BARELY out of high school.

Boozer and Wade are BARELY out of college.

How many guys on this team had International experience? I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Let's hope the American basketball delegation can find ways to be better prepared for the International game. Next time, try locating some shooters to go with that inside game. And, let's go a little more experience (although these young guys will be experienced 4 years down the road).

The guys theat should be absolutely SHAMED are KG & Shaq. No freakin' excuse not to be over there. ESPECIALLY KG. What the hell is this guy all about?

I'm pissed. The little friggin Spaniard is probably laughing his ass off right now. Larry Brown ought to visit his room and beat the crap out of him.
 

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I may be 1 of the only members here that don't like the international game but IMO they have improved enough that the Original Dream Team would have problems - Bird and Magic could hardly move, Stockton and Malone=overrated, Mullin wasn't in prime, Laettner :rolleyes: , USA did have Jordan but teams could take away 1 player (Duncan), etc. IMO that team was great at the time but was more a selection of names and a team willing to play together (have to give them that) and lesser competition - I don't have any problems with that team but everywhere I see/read how they could dominate teams now and maybe in their primes they could but were older in age and maybe International teams play their game better than thought.

(I was impressed with Argentina 2 years ago, I thought they looked better than Serbia).
 

elindholm

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Just goes to show that a good team will allways beat a group of great individuals...

How convenient that this explanation is invariably offered after the game is over.

Wasn't Spain a "good team"? Or did their loss prove that they were merely "individuals"?
 

elindholm

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The point about the youth and inexperience of the U.S. team is a good one. Only one player on the roster (Duncan) has been on an NBA champion. Only two others (Iverson and Jefferson) have been to the Finals. Most of the others have little or no NBA playoff experience.

The notion of "every game counts" is one that takes some getting used to. Lots of good NBA players need to go through the playoffs a few times before they are able to maintain their game at the same level.

The team needed outside shooting and interior defense, but I think they needed playoff experience even more.
 

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BbaLL_31 said:
I may be 1 of the only members here that don't like the international game but IMO they have improved enough that the Original Dream Team would have problems - Bird and Magic could hardly move, Stockton and Malone=overrated, Mullin wasn't in prime, Laettner :rolleyes: , USA did have Jordan but teams could take away 1 player (Duncan), etc. IMO that team was great at the time but was more a selection of names and a team willing to play together (have to give them that) and lesser competition - I don't have any problems with that team but everywhere I see/read how they could dominate teams now and maybe in their primes they could but were older in age and maybe International teams play their game better than thought.

(I was impressed with Argentina 2 years ago, I thought they looked better than Serbia).

I disagree with this. The 92 dream team averaged over 70% of thier points from assists. I heard that the Chicago bulls (the NBA champions that year) only averaged about 65% of thier points off of assists. That 92 Dream team knew how to pass the ball, they knew how to run screens and cuts to the basket to get open layups and outside shots, and last but not least pretty much everyone on that team could hit an outside jump shot. How many of the players on this team can hit an outside jump shot. Since our 3 pt percentage was second worst in the entire olympics (better only then the Rusian womans team0 I would have to say no one on this team could hit an outside jump shot. How many teams on this olympics have NBA all stars on them? The answer is none. How many All stars did the 92 dream team have on it? The answer is 11, Christian laetner (sp?) was the lone college player. That 92 dream team would mutilate the competition that the world had then and now. The problem that the NBA has, it its brand of basketball has gotten a lot worse, the rest of the world has not gotten significantly better.
 

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sly fly said:
This Olympic experience has been a wake-up call for "some" NBA players who think their game didn't need work. Practice? Who needs practice? You get the picture.

LOL, right on the money here.


How many guys on this team had International experience? I'm still trying to figure that one out.


I think there are two players with international experience, the two players that were not replacements.
 

elindholm

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The 92 dream team averaged over 70% of thier points from assists.... That 92 Dream team knew how to pass the ball, they knew how to run screens and cuts to the basket to get open layups and outside shots, and last but not least pretty much everyone on that team could hit an outside jump shot.

Hmmm. My memory is that the main thing they could do was run the break and make layups. Sure, they were all great team players (well, most of them), but the games that I remember looked like NBA All-Star games -- constant up-and-down action, with athletcsm pretty much carrying the day.

Wasn't Barkley the leading scorer on that team, or maybe second? He was hardly the best shooter on the team, nor anything close to the most fundamentally sound. I distinctly remember a quote from him in which he talked about how easy the game was, "just running down the court and shooting layups."
 

Chaz

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elindholm said:
The 92 dream team averaged over 70% of thier points from assists.... That 92 Dream team knew how to pass the ball, they knew how to run screens and cuts to the basket to get open layups and outside shots, and last but not least pretty much everyone on that team could hit an outside jump shot.

Hmmm. My memory is that the main thing they could do was run the break and make layups. Sure, they were all great team players (well, most of them), but the games that I remember looked like NBA All-Star games -- constant up-and-down action, with athletcsm pretty much carrying the day.

Wasn't Barkley the leading scorer on that team, or maybe second? He was hardly the best shooter on the team, nor anything close to the most fundamentally sound. I distinctly remember a quote from him in which he talked about how easy the game was, "just running down the court and shooting layups."



I agree, the 92 team was much better and more experienced, but the international team's defense (and offense) has improved greatly.
Transition defense was pretty non-existant in the 92 games.

I think the '92 team would still win the gold against 2004 competition but I don't think they would average a 40ppg differential.
 

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I dont see what the big deal is (well besides the fact that first place wouldve been great). I just see this as the rest of the world was better than this particular collection of players at this particular time. I think people tend to jump the gun rather quickly sometimes by saying that the international game is superior to the US game because of this reason and because of that reason, but I think that's a mistake. Honestly, this team wasnt good enough to win gold and we knew it from the beginning, but that doesnt mean that there is something wrong with the NBA itself. The average age was 20 freaking 3. I just think that it goes to show you that experience will beat athleticism more often than not, but everyone already knows that.

The one thing that I would like to come out of this is a better selection process for players (possibly even tryouts) and a longer practice schedule. Well that's my two cents. Congrats to argentina and this final should be pretty damn good.
 

Lars the Red

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slinslin said:
Lars did you ever check out this article?

After your hiphop, wrestling and NBA comments I'd guess not.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=whitlock/040826
slin, I read the article earlier. Whitlock tosses the race card around more than Jesse Jackson. It's a pathetic response to an image problem that black America has inflicted on themselves. Hey, they're just expressing their individualism. Well, I guess that means a majority of the population is expressing themselves and their opinion of that expression.
 

NJYAJ09

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do you guys think USA will come out awesone, or sulk and play horribly?
 
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Djaughe

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NJYAJ09 said:
do you guys think USA will come out awesone, or sulk and play horribly?
I hope they play with a pissed off attitude and win the bronze.

Besides it sounds better on the plane ride home to say "Were No. 3!" versus "Were no. 4!"
 
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Djaughe

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Hey we take on lithuana again! :D
 

fordronken

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Djaughe said:
I hope they play with a pissed off attitude and win the bronze.

Well, if anyone saw the U.S. during the World Championships, they'd be awfully reluctant to expect anything like that.
 

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George O'Brien said:
I do not like the USA chances against Lithuania. They are a lot better team than Argentina.

I'm not sure exactly how you arrived at that conclusion?

Joe Mama
 

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