USC may forfeit all wins last year?

[Russ Smith]

This was a long time coming this rumor has been out there since before the season started but it's apparently broken now. Yahoo sports did an interview with Bush' mom asking questions about the house in Spring Valley they were living in allegedly rent free courtesy of a guy who wanted to retain Bush as a client when he turned pro.

Bush has not retained the guy or an agent he's closely affiliated with and denies any wrongdoing, says his family paid full rent. The house was built in 2005 and purchased for 757K, and the Bush family moved in not long after it was purchased by Michael Michaels, who sought to represent Bush' "professional marketing" when he signed in the NFL.

This rumor was on all the UCLA boards ages ago I had pretty much written it off as a non story because it's been out there for so long. Yahoo spoke to bush' mother, and ESPN reported that within 24 hours of their questions, the Bush family packed up and moved out. Bush' mother, stepfather, and younger brother were all living there and have moved out completely as of the weekend.

USC faces the possibility of forfeiting the entire season if Bush is ruled to have been an ineligible player. I don't think anybody really expects it to come to that but the problem USC is going to have is again this is not a new revelation it was being alleged before the season even started so they can't really claim they didn't know. Apparently if it's determined that the Bush family stayed in the house rent free, or even significantly under market value rent, technically the NCAA can declare it a violation and rule Bush to have been an ineligible player.

His agent claims people are trying to badmouth him now because of the upcoming draft. One story I saw last night said his agent is claiming this rumor is being spread by San Diego based agent David Caravantes, close friend of Michaels, who was to have been Bush' agent if he'd signed with Michaels. Bush hired Mike Ornstein instead and apparently Ornstein says Caravantes planted the story because he's mad bush didn't retain him.

 

[Russ Smith]

OOps, meant to post this in the college sports forum.

 

[Mulli]

If USC gets in trouble, it would just break my heart. Who would have ever thought?

 

[Russ Smith]

If USC gets in trouble, it would just break my heart. Who would have ever thought?

Depending on which rumor you listen to half that team should have been ineligible last year. LenDale White passed some abnormal amount of credits in summer school to retain his eligibility as did 2-3 other kids. There were severe questions about some of the other guys, even leinart's much publicized dance class has been questioned since it's alleged much like Chris Rodgers UA situation, leinart may have been getting more units than other students in the class just to allow him to play(you have to pass a certain number of hours to play sports and as a 5th year senior Leinart took just enough to be eligible).

 

[boisesuns]

It stinks when you hear about the big teams possibly cheating to make it by. There is so much money up for grabs in the big time college football teams, that it skews judgement and creates coverups.

It makes it tough for teams like Boise State who are trying to build their program up to national levels. They have to compete against so many things that aren't controlled on the field.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

If the university had no knowledge of this, or more accurately if there's no proof of USC knowing about this then I'm guessing the Trojans will only have to give up the money they got from the Rose Bowl.

Or the NCAA investigation could merely find out that the Bush family paid market price for rent at the house and everything could turn out fine.

 

[Russ Smith]

If the university had no knowledge of this, or more accurately if there's no proof of USC knowing about this then I'm guessing the Trojans will only have to give up the money they got from the Rose Bowl.

Or the NCAA investigation could merely find out that the Bush family paid market price for rent at the house and everything could turn out fine.

yep, right now it's just like the LA Times "expose" on Jim Harrick's son selling his Chevy Blazer to Lisa Hodoh, sister of Baron Davis. They said it was a violation since the selling price was too low and clearly meant to entice Baron to UCLA. Turns out if you used the Times own used car listings you'd have found several 2 door 2WD Blazers for less than Hodoh paid. the Times story used the price for a 4 door 4wd because it made for a better story. they ultimately conceded the mistake, the NCAA investigated, and cleared the whole thing.

I don't think USC can claim they knew nothing though, this rumor was on UCLA's football board before the season even started, this is not new, it's just that Yahoo apparently pushed it to the forefront and now the Pac 10 is investigating it. It does point out why schools have to keep tabs on rumors though. USC seems to have taken the approach that if we do nothing, and don't investigate, we can claim ignorance later. I think I even mentioned this rumor before the season started in listing the reasons why I was sure both Bush and White were going pro after the season, not positive but I'm pretty sure I included the rumor that Bush was already living in the home of an agent. Turns out he's not an agent, that's what the original rumor was.

 

[boisesuns]

Wait. If USC has to give up the Rose Bowl money, does that mean the rest of the PAC 10 as to give it up? (Don't they get a conference split of it?)

 

[bratwurst]

I might be very ignorant here, but I'm curious, "giving up last years wins" does exactly what? I mean, everyone knows who won the games. How is this punishment? Giving back the money they earned from the bowl game makes sense in a punitive fashion. How does giving up wins?

Not trying to sound like a jerk, I'm honestly curious as to how this works.

 

[Russ Smith]

I might be very ignorant here, but I'm curious, "giving up last years wins" does exactly what? I mean, everyone knows who won the games. How is this punishment? Giving back the money they earned from the bowl game makes sense in a punitive fashion. How does giving up wins?

Not trying to sound like a jerk, I'm honestly curious as to how this works.

it just wipes games off the record or in their case makes them all count as losses. You're correct that it doesn't change that they blew out UCLA or Stanford etc.

If they had won the NC, they would face having that wiped out too.

And again, Mao's point is dead on, at this point it's just an allegation, nobody has proven anything. but you sure have to wonder why the Bush family moved out so quickly after the story broke. Although it's possible that Reggie has a line of credit through his agent and they had planned on moving anyways, at least that's my prediction for what the family will say happened.

 

[bratwurst]

So its basically a slap on the wrist. If they put them on probation, at least they won't be bowl eligible.

I'm leaning to the argument that college athletes should be paid a stipend by the college, regulated by the NCAA.

 

[ajcardfan]

So its basically a slap on the wrist. If they put them on probation, at least they won't be bowl eligible.

I'm leaning to the argument that college athletes should be paid a stipend by the college, regulated by the NCAA.

I agree. And, they should create a "major" called "Professional Athlete" for the guys who care less about an education.

 

[Russ Smith]

So its basically a slap on the wrist. If they put them on probation, at least they won't be bowl eligible.

I'm leaning to the argument that college athletes should be paid a stipend by the college, regulated by the NCAA.

Well some reporter came out today and said if it's true, Bush should give back the heisman because if true, he should have been stripped of his amateur status and not heisman eligible. I don't buy that, who knows how many other candidates got similar stuff that we don't know about?

 

[NEZCardsfan]

I agree. And, they should create a "major" called "Professional Athlete" for the guys who care less about an education.

I thought they already had a major for that. I thought they called it "Sports Management."

 

[conraddobler]

Well some reporter came out today and said if it's true, Bush should give back the heisman because if true, he should have been stripped of his amateur status and not heisman eligible. I don't buy that, who knows how many other candidates got similar stuff that we don't know about?

I'm curious as to why the NCAA isn't sticking it's nose in, they usually do at about this juncture.

Someone's now going to have to prove how the rent got paid and if someone says cash then that's a bingo right there.

They either have canceled checks, MO reciepts which has to be laughable for that amount of money or the whole thing is bogus.

On that size of house the rent has to be huge and it'd be interesting to note how much they make to afford that kind of home, the payment has to be 4 or 5 k a month unless it's some weird interest only arm.

They'd have to bring in over 150k easy a year to afford that, it's certainly possible they make that but it's also possible they don't. Those are the questions that should of been asked, how much was the rent, how did you pay and how much do you earn. They have a right not to answer until of course someone hits them with a court order.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Well some reporter came out today and said if it's true, Bush should give back the heisman because if true, he should have been stripped of his amateur status and not heisman eligible. I don't buy that, who knows how many other candidates got similar stuff that we don't know about?

That's ridiculous. OJ kills a couple people and gets to keep his while Bush took advantage of his situation (like many college athletes do yet nobody finds out about) and gets it taken away. That would be an absolute crime - no pun intended.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm curious as to why the NCAA isn't sticking it's nose in, they usually do at about this juncture.

Someone's now going to have to prove how the rent got paid and if someone says cash then that's a bingo right there.

The pac 10 is investigating first and will no doubt report to the NCAA. Remember, neither the Pac 10 or the NCAA has the power of subpoena, they don't have any legal way to demand copies of checks etc. most of these investigations come down to finding someone willing to talk and building enough of a paper trail.

If guilty I'm sure the parties involved went to great lengths to make it hard to prove.