USC/UCLA leaving Pac12 for Big10?

[Absolute Zero]

I’m also going to go against the grain and defend Michael Crow. First, because it worked out. And second because he is by far, by miles, the best president ASU has ever had.

Agreed. After the hysteria here on this Board over the past few weeks, then watching this play out and then watching the interview of Crow and Anderson yesterday, I have concluded that the hysteria was clearly overblown and they did a good job bringing in this in for a landing.

 

[Folster]

And to reiterate - caving to the CA schools and not absorbing the best of the Big 12 two years ago when UT/OU left was when the die was actually cast. Yes Larry Scott, Directv, ten years of mediocre football play by USC, etc started the process but none of that matters if they had simply absorbed 3-4 Big 12 programs or merged.

To expound upon your USC criticism. 10+ years of mediocre if not bad and uninspired football from all of the CA schools really hurt. Dispassionate fans and empty stadiums was a stench that did not go unnoticed. There almost seems to be a political component to college football. Red state vs blue state. There is something deeper culturally in the fan bases, but I don't care to explore that here.

 

[Lefty]

Does anyone know the story behind this?

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[Folster]

Does anyone know the story behind this?

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It was in the full interview I posted. They were answering questions about travel concerns. I think it was a joke that fell flat. He mentioned most of away games would not be any further than the Pacific Northwest was. They also mentioned that they communicated to the BIG 12 that travel was a concern and were given assurances that the conference would have a regional focus, especially for non-revenue sports I imagine.

I feel like they should've held an official press conference with prepared remarks instead of a press gaggle.

 

[Lefty]

It was in the full interview I posted. They were answering questions about travel concerns. I think it was a joke that fell flat. He mentioned most of away games would not be any further than the Pacific Northwest was. They also mentioned that they communicated to the BIG 12 that travel was a concern and were given assurances that the conference would have a regional focus, especially for non-revenue sports I imagine.

I feel like they should've held an official press conference with prepared remarks instead of a press gaggle.

Whether he was kidding or not, every time an ASU team travels to West Virginia, the Mountaineer players and fans are going to be extra motivated to beat them. Such a dumb thing to say.

 

[WiscoBird]

Did you guys know the Ray Anderson is the 2nd highest paid athletic director in the country according to Wikipedia? I had no idea.

 

[CardsFan88]

Crow’s discussion of “Apple Corporation” and its “technological 23rd century Star Trek-thing” was cringey. I do give some credit for trying to preserve the conference at the end, but I give him far more blame for destroying it, along with Larry Scott.

We’ll move on, having dodged a bullet for now, and hopefully Crow will learn how to wear a cap.

He talked like an old man, but if I had to speculate, I think Apple probably had some compelling (in some ways) plans

Apple likely had some great tools to immediately manipulate the content they now own, allowing players nil teams and schools to be their own production crew. I bet it could create some great content. The turnaround that night. More content control and tools surpassing everyone else.

Of course, likely only on Apple products. (The downside)

It's likely where everything is heading. Apple is there first and likely only their content can use it... At least at first, or for free.

In fact, such things could help recruiting if you know your nil tools will be the best.

The problem for Apple was, thats all they offered, and initial offer was low-ball.

Apple has the money to literally triple the sec contract and it wouldn't dent their fortress of cash. Instead they low-balled, with the potential for more than big12, with low probability to make more... if people subscribed... In an era of streaming saturation.

Now they're stuck with MWC level teams for their content.

I can see what Crow was saying, if my speculation is right, but you need a good bedrock and pac 12 and apple acted like fools.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

He talked like an old man, but if I had to speculate, I think Apple probably had some compelling (in some ways) plans

Apple likely had some great tools to immediately manipulate the content they now own, allowing players nil teams and schools to be their own production crew. I bet it could create some great content. The turnaround that night. More content control and tools surpassing everyone else.

Of course, likely only on Apple products. (The downside)

It's likely where everything is heading. Apple is there first and likely only their content can use it... At least at first, or for free.

In fact, such things could help recruiting if you know your nil tools will be the best.

The problem for Apple was, thats all they offered, and initial offer was low-ball.

Apple has the money to literally triple the sec contract and it wouldn't dent their fortress of cash. Instead they low-balled, with the potential for more than big12, with low probability to make more... if people subscribed... In an era of streaming saturation.

Now they're stuck with MWC level teams for their content.

I can see what Crow was saying, if my speculation is right, but you need a good bedrock and pac 12 and apple acted like fools.

Being “right” except 10-20 years too early is actually being wrong.

 

[SeattleCardinal]

Everything I've read indicates that the Apple arrangement was a terrible deal (financially and in terms of exposure) right now. And yet Crow was evidently willing to sign a grant of rights and take the Apple deal, despite the damage it would have done to ASU athletics. I would have preferred to hear him say (after some technology-speak preparation) that the Apple Corporation, er, Inc. deal was interesting but just not viable at this point in time.

I'm just glad that ASU ended up in the right place, with a full revenue share. Still wondering why Ray Anderson is still employed at, and richly compensated by, ASU. But that's a different discussion.

 

[Raindog]

Did you guys know the Ray Anderson is the 2nd highest paid athletic director in the country according to Wikipedia? I had no idea.

I have known that for a few years. Talk about stealing money.

 

[CardsFan88]

Being “right” except 10-20 years too early is actually being wrong.

Exactly. What all teams need now is traditional exposure via a network and more money. The potential tools alone don't overcome what happens when these teams are placed where few can watch.

They only offered those tools and limited visibility, which Apple in their arrogance thought not only would it be enough, they could lowball them.

If I had to guess, the PAC 12 Presidents bought the tech hype and thought the particulars would come together later. They pulled the cart out first, and by the time they looked for the horse, it had escaped the barn.

They tried to outsmart everyone and only outsmarted themselves, Crow among the guiltiest of parties.

 

[jf-08]

If the Apple offer was given back last year I wonder if they would stuck together and tried to make it work?

 

[CardsFan88]

The rumors I've seen now are that the PAC4 and Mountain West Conference might merge but who is going to pay a sub for that?

Then after the Apple deal is consummated, look to expand. But lots of moving parts. Does Stanford or Oregon State even stay? It's possible they leave still. Big 12 voted to look into adding 17th and 18th members, so it's possible neither does.

Hell, it seems, San Diego State might even get an offer elsewhere. While they could be at the bottom of a conference prestige-wise, in the newly reformed PAC, they'd be near the top. Crazy. They've long been interesting, but hardly something you bank a legitimate conference on or start a whole new Apple venture on.

There's talk of ACC teams, but why would an ACC team want to go to what is essentially an MWC+ conference? There is a August 15th ACC deadline that locks teams in for the 2024 season, so if any of that is going to happen, it has to quickly. But FSU would have to come up with $120 million to leave to even potentially trigger some sort of exodus which the PAC/MWC conference could then capitalize on some lower tier ACC schools.

But does it even make sense at all? All these middle-low tier FBS schools, already more obscure with low visibility, are going to tie themselves to a stream-only exposure with social media nil inserts? Seems like it would be counterintuitive for them. Whoever joins Apple will be shrinking their brand.

Apple pulled their PAC12 offer, so the new one will be for less money overall. The remaining PAC 4 are taking a $$$ hit (unless Apple guarantees just them 4 the same share), new ones, probably a bump from MWC.

For Apple it's not a great place to get into football.

At this point, the whole debacle seems to have turned into a stepping stone or proving ground for Apple. Get it working with whatever the PAC ends up and then bid next time on other leagues. I don't know if that means abandoning them or putting them on the back burner. Still seems a bit risky for the PAC, but I guess their athletic program funding survives the rest of the decade.

 

[CardsFan88]

If the Apple offer was given back last year I wonder if they would stuck together and tried to make it work?

Good question. I think USC/UCLA leaving was the window, and even then, Apple's money needed to be higher.

But if they actually got the numbers before USC/UCLA left, then PAC 12 could've countered the offer. Everything we read, if true, shows they didn't even get these bad numbers until Colorado left. (or maybe Colorado heard the top line numbers and bolted before the 'official' offer came)

Overall it's just a tough spot for colleges to be in. They need exposure. For $$$, for recruits, etc. Apple deal makes it harder and no $$$ advantage to sweeten the pot.

 

[SeattleCardinal]

There's talk of ACC teams, but why would an ACC team want to go to what is essentially an MWC+ conference? There is a August 15th ACC deadline that locks teams in for the 2024 season, so if any of that is going to happen, it has to quickly. But FSU would have to come up with $120 million to leave to even potentially trigger some sort of exodus which the PAC/MWC conference could then capitalize on some lower tier ACC schools.

Isn't the talk actually about the AAC, rather than the ACC?

This faux conference page is brutal.

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[CardsFan88]

Isn't the talk actually about the AAC, rather than the ACC?

This faux conference page is brutal.

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While the August 15th deadline and obvious FSU issues are ACC, you're right PAC-4 is linked with following any merger with potential AAC. My bad.

lol at that page
All 4 are in the Pac 4 championship

 

[gmabel830]

crazy to say but getting into Alabama right now is insanely difficult. It was similar at Florida State in the 90’s. Simply because they get thousands of applications from affluent northeast and California kids wanting to go there. Wonder if it’s the natural beauty of Tuscaloosa or Tallahassee or something else?

My wife’s cousin is going to Alabama in the Fall, and I thought the same thing but their last published acceptance rate is 79%. Now that is a bit lower than the Arizona schools, but not insanely difficult.

 

[AZCB34]

Isn't the talk actually about the AAC, rather than the ACC?

This faux conference page is brutal.

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I find nothing humorous about this because it could have easily been ASU on the outside looking in. The remaining four got fubared

I’m still salty about the PAC freaking everything 6 ways to Sunday

 

[Lefty]

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[jf-08]

I would love if SDSU joined.

 

[SeattleCardinal]

I would love if SDSU joined.

Not sure how SDSU would reconcile the big exit fee that it would pay, with the “reduced rates” it would receive. Long-term play, maybe.

 

[ajcardfan]

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This is getting stupid.

 

[TJ]

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No more teams. 16 is enough.

 

[CardsFan88]

The speculation is, we're getting to 24, the only question is, by what year? 24 is likely the minimum. Coast to coast.

ESPN wants West late time slot content. It's their time to shine. That's what this is about now. All these big-time conferences need to be able to give their network partners a full slate. From Saturday cradle to Saturday grave.

The west is getting settled now. The east later. Maybe some this year or it stretches on. But looks like the focus shifts east after this. Unless the east gets destabilized by FSU leaving within 9 days, it'll be a later year.


The PAC still might not survive.

The PAC organization is trying to put a plan together, but the school presidents of their remaining parts are focusing on themselves as the rest did.

They are going to be weighing PAC and potential Big12 offers. I don't see how PAC can pull anything together without letting Big12 finish picking at its bones. What can PAC offer? Not much. It's Big12's show now.

As of now they're offering ESPN full shares, but nothing from Fox. Likely still equal or better than what Apple WAS offering before the split. That's a way better deal than what PAC can offer, and it's a heavenly deal for SDS.

Remember, the old adage, "There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen". For college football, this is the latter. But that seems to be the time we're in as an era regarding everything.

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[WiscoBird]

The speculation is, we're getting to 24, the only question is, by what year? 24 is likely the minimum. Coast to coast.

ESPN wants West late time slot content. It's their time to shine. That's what this is about now. All these big-time conferences need to be able to give their network partners a full slate. From Saturday cradle to Saturday grave.

The west is getting settled now. The east later. Maybe some this year or it stretches on. But looks like the focus shifts east after this. Unless the east gets destabilized by FSU leaving within 9 days, it'll be a later year.


The PAC still might not survive.

The PAC organization is trying to put a plan together, but the school presidents of their remaining parts are focusing on themselves as the rest did.

They are going to be weighing PAC and potential Big12 offers. I don't see how PAC can pull anything together without letting Big12 finish picking at its bones. What can PAC offer? Not much. It's Big12's show now.

As of now they're offering ESPN full shares, but nothing from Fox. Likely still equal or better than what Apple WAS offering before the split. That's a way better deal than what PAC can offer, and it's a heavenly deal for SDS.

Remember, the old adage, "There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen". For college football, this is the latter. But that seems to be the time we're in as an era regarding everything.

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Couple of questions here.

1. Who would cover the SDSU buyout? Would the Big 12 use some of that exit money from OK and Texas for SDSU?

2. 18 teams would eliminate the pod system for scheduling. You would need 9 team divisions. Assuming you would play everybody in your division one time, how many conference games is the Big 12 going to play? Is everyone doing away with out of conference games? Maybe Anderson was right when he said he was never going to Morgantown.

I'll also add I would be absolutely shocked if Stanford joins the Big 12.