Vazquez to the White Sox for "El Duque", Chris Young, and Luis Vizcaino

devilfan02

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overseascardfan said:
So I assume we have an interest in either Weaver or Washburn or Millwood because El Duque had a worse year statistically than Vazquez, what is he going to make this year? To me our rotation got worse, all I can say is we better get some talent for Glaus or keep him. We can't get a deal like this for Glaus. Hernandez will not generate interest next year because he is going to have a bad year at Chase Field.

We dont have interst in those giys and for good reason. We knew our roation wasn't going to get better. The whole point was to clear some money and address our needs- a SP, bullpen, and CF of future. If we deal Glaus we will get a lot of talent and will free up more money to attack the FA pitching market next year, not this year (its horrible and expensive). The best available SP option in the Javy trade was Kris Benson and he sucks and is overpaid. If healthy, why wouldn't El Duque have a good year at Chase???? He's a groundball pitcher which might be better than Javy's tatter tots
 
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devilfan02

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I forgot to mention the best part of the trade: That Byrnes turned his head to Javy's two biggest demands in a destanation. Javy wanted to go to team that was A) closer to Puerto Rico and B) a pitcher friendly park (for obvious reasons). While Byrnes did send him to the best team in the league, he also granted neither of his wishes.

I think it's great. If a guy doesn't want to play on your team, I'd do everything to make sure his desires are not met. Congrats Javy, your further away form Puerto Rico and your in a park that gives up the most runs in the major leagues:biglaugh:
 

cardsfan22

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BillsCarnage said:
Exactly, here is a potential lineup. Maybe in '07?

C, Montero
1B, Jackson
2B, Drew
SS, Upton
3B, Santos
RF, Quentin
CF, Young
LF, Gonzales

If El Duckie has a good first half of the season he will be traded to a contender looking to shore up pitching and that should bring in more talent for the Dbacks.

Also, if they move Glaus or Gonzo then they should have a lot of cap space to get top pitcher. 2006 will be like 2005, but after that the future is looking good.



ummm i would have to believe that Tracy is going to be there somewhere. we need to trade Glaus or Green. I dont really care which one but we need to give Tracy a position and leave him there for a whole year. This team looks like it is setting up a big free agency next year.

Can anyone say Zito in 07!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

overseascardfan

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devilfan02 said:
IMO, Byrnes did a great job on this trade. Yeah, El Duque isn't that good but we needed another starter in the Javy deal and got a decent one. Vizcaino provides immediate help in the bullpen and makes us quickly forget about Cormier's departure. Chris Young is obviously the big catch in this trade. He should be ready by '07 and we're going to sign a veteran CF for next year anyway. I think Young could be a great player for us years to come coupled with the middle of our infield (Drew and Upton).

I'm having trouble trying to figure why people don't like this trade. First of all, Javy IS NOT THAT GOOD. There is no way we could have gotten another one of Chicagos SP's besides El Duque cause Javy's not better than any of them. Sure, he has a rubber arm and can be good at times but he is nowhere near a #1 pitcher (and he's paid like it). He gives up home runs laft and right and he's going to a band-box park, Cellular Field, where the most home runs were hit the last 2 years. He established his career in Montreal and has been crap ever since. I'm extremely happy that he's gone and I think we got help where we need it. Good job Byrnes :thumbup: ! Hopefully Glaus is up next...... Then we can turn our attention to pitching and could be real scary in a couple of years

We could have had Garland. If we got him then I feel we would have made a great trade. Hernandez is injury prone and reminds me of Ortiz. He had great years w/ the Yankees because they scored runs and had that run of excellence. Chris Young may fill the role of CF of the future but what about next year? Plus he may end up being a bust ala Bill Murphy whose impressive K ratio in AA w/ the Marlins made everyone think he was a legit rotation guy. We could have signed Garland to an extension before the trade was finalized. Now the Sox can trade him and get even richer because the just acquired his possible replacement in Vazquez. Not a good deal for the D'backs and we will get proof when the season starts.
 

devilfan02

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If you think the Sox would have gave up Garland your crazy. Everyone on their staff is better than Javy except for El Duque which is why they traded him to us (along with 2 other above avg players). We had to trade Javy so its not like we fell into this deal. We got a top 10 prospect in Young and a great boost in the pen with Vizcaino. We needed another starter and got El Duque. He's not that great but is an addition to this staff. Saying that we could have got Garland is not logical. Don't you think if Byrnes could have pulled that deal he would have? Garland's a moneyball GM's dream- young, cheap, and very effective. Byrnes would have jumped all over that deal. The best SP's we could have acquired was Benson or Zito. Benson sucks and is expensive and Zito would have required us to give up 1 or 2 of the Big 3. We made a run at Benard from the O's and they didn't bite. There was no better deal on the table...
 

dogpoo32

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So is this trade official yet? Haven't seen anything on the TV (my window to the world). I've prepped the confetti and was just waiting... I want it to happen before they realize how big a mistake they are making.
 

Evil Ash

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dogpoo32 said:
So is this trade official yet? Haven't seen anything on the TV (my window to the world). I've prepped the confetti and was just waiting... I want it to happen before they realize how big a mistake they are making.

Once the players take their physicals (about 2 days from now) and the Commish clears it, it will then become official
 

dogpoo32

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Evil Ash said:
Once the players take their physicals (about 2 days from now) and the Commish clears it, it will then become official

Awesome, thanks for clarifying. I thought we were just waiting for a press release or something, but this I can live with.
 

AZZenny

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This is a competent trade. Not a splashy first toe in the pool, but Byrnes did not bend over and hand them the soap, and that's a plus. Prefer if we hadn't chipped in any dough but Oh well.

El D has one more year so he is a near-term salary-clearing move, and my guess is, he will probably be in our Bullpen. (No way we would have gotten someone of Garland's caliber given Javy's past couple years and his price.)

Vizcaino goes in the Pen. OK, short-term Bullpen refurbish pretty much is done.

Chris Young is up here in 2007 - he Ks a lot, but was ranked as by far the fastest guy in the ChiSox farm, also best athlete, and a very legitimate solid CF prospect - 25 HR, 25 steals in 2005. He was in the Futures game this year. Here was BA's post-game capsule:



Top Breakout, U.S. Team

Chris Young, of, White Sox. Athletic center fielders in the White Sox organization will get compared to Mike Cameron. It just happens because the Sox developed Cameron and continue to search for a replacement as dynamic as Cameron, though Aaron Rowand has certainly proved capable at the major league level.

Still, the Sox want another Cameron. Last year at low Class A Kannapolis, manager Chris Cron threw the comparison at Chris Young, particularly noting Young's power-speed combination. Now, managing Young at Double-A Birmingham, Razor Shines is throwing the same words around.

"I say he's Mike Cameron in waiting but with more power potential," said Shines, who knows Cameron has hit 167 major league homers. "He has the total package, and he's getting stronger every year. His legs were little skinny things when I first saw him, and now he's getting big and strong all over his body and his legs.

"I think he's not just going to be a good player; I think he's going to be a dominant player at the major league level."

A recent hot streak in June was what convinced Shines. Young, 21, jumped over high Class A and was struggling with the adjustment during the season's first two months, striking out 63 times entering June in just 197 at-bats. As he kept striking out, though, he realized he needed to be more patient and lay off breaking balls out of the strike zone. As his pitch selection improved, his power exploded.

He homered seven times in June (through the 28th) and ranked second in the Southern League behind Delmon Young in home runs. Moreover, he had a 15-18 walk-strikeout ratio in June in 90 at-bats, nearly halving his strikeout rate. He was batting .254-16-42 overall, with a Southern League-best 29 doubles as well as 14 stolen bases in 18 attempts.

Like Cameron, Young has premium defensive tools as well, Shines said.

"I don't like to hype kids," Shines said, "but this kid is legitimate. He's getting better because he's facing quality arms in this league with quality breaking balls, and he's learning what he has to do against them. Once I saw how he stayed strong mentally when he was struggling, that told me he's going to be tremendous. He didn't let the game beat him."
 

FrustratedFan04

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As a life long Sox fan who is still basking in the glow of the WS, please don't sell this deal short. The pitchers are fluff but I have seen Young play and he is the real deal. I had been telling all of my friends before yesterday not to be so quick in giving the CF job to Brian Anderson after the Rowand trade because Young would win the job after spring training. You guys got one hell of a ball player there. Just be patient.
 

BillsCarnage

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cardsfan22 said:
ummm i would have to believe that Tracy is going to be there somewhere. we need to trade Glaus or Green. I dont really care which one but we need to give Tracy a position and leave him there for a whole year.

Doh, i knew i forgot someone. I'd like to see Tracey at 3b, but realistically he could go anywhere. Either way they've got a good young lineup in the makings.

cardsfan22 said:
This team looks like it is setting up a big free agency next year.

Can anyone say Zito in 07!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My thoughts too, though i haven't dug around too much to see who else will be available.
 

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