Vikings Sign Byron Murphy

[jbjarko]

OFF TOPIC: Is there a bigger clown than John Gambodoro in local sports media?

Clown 1A - Gambo
Clown 1B - Bickley

 

[BritCard]

no but can anybody tell me how the team got better by letting Allen and Murphy go?

If you're not making the talent on the roster better what is the goal? I get the new GM and coach remake the roster but when you do that you get rid of bad contracts, guys with bad work ethics etc. They were both FA's and signed relatively cheaply so not bad contracts. Zach Allen we were told by JJ Watt was a great guy who worked his azz off to get better. Murphy the only knock on him appears to be injury. So maybe we avoided an injury plagued career by Murphy I guess we won't know that for awhile.

If the first pick is Will Anderson we can say great we added a pass rusher, but we already lost our best pass rushers from last year. Fine with Golden being let go and JJ retired but as of today the leading returning sack guy from last season is Simmons with 4. I like Sanders and Thomas so if we add Anderson that's great but he's not going to make up 21.5 sacks which is what JJ, Zach and Markus got last year.

IMO we'd be a better team this year with both Zach and Will Anderson than we are with just Will. So unless we sign someone in FA who's comparable to Zach, we didn't improve the team by letting him walk.

Maybe we'll get someone in the draft that can replace him, but we still replaced a guy we could have retained and used that pick to fill another hole.

We haven't tied $36m per year (or 15% of the cap) into two average, replaceable players.

 

[Chopper0080]

Okay. One move in FA ruined the rest of the off-season. I see how the dark side think now.

You can't say your goal is to build the trenches and then not do that.

 

[Russ Smith]

We haven't tied $36m per year (or 15% of the cap) into two average, replaceable players.

Remind me again how many wins you get for spending the least amount of money. We have to spend that money to get players in. If we get a player comparable or better to Zach, for comparable or less money I will admit it was a good move, right now I see no evidence we will.

What I suspect will happen with Byron is we'll draft a young CB and be told this kid is going to replace Murphy, but we all know young CB's take time, they just do, so the replacement won't be as good as Murphy right away.

When you say average and replaceable you're assuring me that we can and will sign guys just as good for less money right? Because if we don't, again how did we make the team better?

I don't want the buddy ball overspend on ancient guys stuff, but I don't want to let good young players walk

 

[JohnnyCakes]

You can't say your goal is to build the trenches and then not do that.

you build the trenches through multiple drafts.

Please, have patience

 

[BritCard]

Remind me again how many wins you get for spending the least amount of money. We have to spend that money to get players in. If we get a player comparable or better to Zach, for comparable or less money I will admit it was a good move, right now I see no evidence we will.

What I suspect will happen with Byron is we'll draft a young CB and be told this kid is going to replace Murphy, but we all know young CB's take time, they just do, so the replacement won't be as good as Murphy right away.

When you say average and replaceable you're assuring me that we can and will sign guys just as good for less money right? Because if we don't, again how did we make the team better?

I don't want the buddy ball overspend on ancient guys stuff, but I don't want to let good young players walk

How many do you get by signing players to deals that don't befit their level of play? Ask Steve keim, he knows well.

How would you know who or how they will replace them with? FA literally just started. This is the point.

Have these rants after FA and the draft are over. That's the sensible time to have them. Having them on March 15th is nuts.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I mean, I knew it wouldn't take long for this kind of negative nonsense to start but I didn't expect it before free agency officially started. The first brush strokes have been made on the canvas and already your criticizing the artist without any idea what the final picture is supposed to be.

That's it guys. Monti sucks already because he let a couple of average players walk. A couple of guys that have never sniffed a pro bowl and who between them (cover your ears here K9) have 1 season with a PFF grade over 70 in 8. Between them they have 5 years below 60.

But we drafted them, and they are young, so we should get all angsty about it. You'd think we let Quinnen Williams and Patrick Surtain walk.

Two complete average players in any measurable aspect. Albeit standout on this roster.

I could find an argument to keep both of them in a different situation, but at the same time it's certainly not the end of the world.

PFF grades are the best way to build a team .

 

[Chopper0080]

you build the trenches through multiple drafts.

Please, have patience

That isn't true. You build the trenches by adding talent whatever way you can. Preferably young talent. You maintain depth by drafting and developing guys but that isn't where you start.

 

[BritCard]

you build the trenches through multiple drafts.

Please, have patience

On one thread you have Chopper arguing that re-signing O line guys that weren't part of a very good O line isn't how you get better.

And on this thread he's arguing that signing a guy that has been part of a D line for 4 years that hasn't been very good is the end of the world (You could also use this argument for DB's).

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Chopper0080]

If the Cardinals said they want to build the trenches and then re-signed Allen, signed Fletcher Cox, re-signed the linemen they did, signed Conner McGovern, drafted Javon Carter, and drafted John Michael Schmitz...I would see a layered and executed plan.

 

[kerouac9]

I think you can root for a rebuild and still be upset we didn’t re-sign players who should be part of that rebuild. No one thinks Zach Allen and Byron Murphy make us competitive next year.

Yes. Allen and Murphy are both players with upside you'd hope to access through the hotshot coaching staff you just hired.

They'd be reaching their potential just at the time you hope that the rebuilding seeds your planting in the next two seasons will bloom.

In the meantime, they can provide leadership and help establish the culture you're trying to build in the locker room.

Okay. One move in FA ruined the rest of the off-season. I see how the dark side think now.

Fun straw-man argument. Only poverty fans are willing to sacrifice three straight seasons on the altar of a rebuild while the Giants go from 4-13 to the playoffs in a single season.

Give me a date you're waiting to judge the roster -- because this game goes on every offseason.

Judge the team by the end of free agency.

No, judge the roster after the draft.

No, judge the roster after June 1.

No, judge this team by what shows up in training camp.

You can't really judge this roster until Kyler Murray returns sometime after Halloween.

Well, it's going to take time for Kyler to get used to his new teammates and playbook -- he was only getting mental reps. Probably best to wait until next season.

 

[Arz101]

The 3rd choice GM is going to make fans long for the years of Steve Keim in 24 months.

 

[WiscoBird]

That isn't true. You build the trenches by adding talent whatever way you can. Preferably young talent. You maintain depth by drafting and developing guys but that isn't where you start.

Don't worry, we will draft and develop someone to replace Allen. Once he shows progress and becomes a legit NFL defensive lineman we will let him go because a 3rd round pick didn't make an all pro team in his first 4 years in the league. You need to create holes in order to fill them. That's how you win Super Bowls!

 

[PJ1]

How many do you get by signing players to deals that don't befit their level of play? Ask Steve keim, he knows well.

How would you know who or how they will replace them with? FA literally just started. This is the point.

Have these rants after FA and the draft are over. That's the sensible time to have them. Having them on March 15th is nuts.

No one knows. But we do know we lost two players that we drafted and developed. As Russ said he will be happy to say he was wrong if we replace them at similar or less money. You say they were signed for too much. Your opinion not fact.

 

[BritCard]

If the Cardinals said they want to build the trenches and then re-signed Allen, signed Fletcher Cox, re-signed the linemen they did, signed Conner McGovern, drafted Javon Carter, and drafted John Michael Schmitz...I would see a layered and executed plan.

They could still do all that, except Allen.

 

[Jasper]

We never wanted to resign Murphy. Injuries have left us with emotional damage the past few seasons and I don't think we will be signing players with an injury history anymore.
Better to have an average player that busts his ass all year every game than an above average player that plays for 6-7 games per season.

 

[gmabel830]

Clown 1A - Gambo
Clown 1B - Bickley

Jurecki

 

[kerouac9]

We never wanted to resign Murphy. Injuries have left us with emotional damage the past few seasons and I don't think we will be signing players with an injury history anymore.
Better to have an average player that busts his ass all year every game than an above average player that plays for 6-7 games per season.

True Dave McGinnis stuff here. Maybe Fred Wakefield has a kid that can play both ways.

 

[BritCard]

Fun straw-man argument. Only poverty fans are willing to sacrifice three straight seasons on the altar of a rebuild while the Giants go from 4-13 to the playoffs in a single season.

Give me a date you're waiting to judge the roster -- because this game goes on every offseason.

Judge the team by the end of free agency.

No, judge the roster after the draft.

No, judge the roster after June 1.

No, judge this team by what shows up in training camp.

You can't really judge this roster until Kyler Murray returns sometime after Halloween.

Well, it's going to take time for Kyler to get used to his new teammates and playbook -- he was only getting mental reps. Probably best to wait until next season.

You started with bemoaning a strawman then made one all of your own.

Nobody is saying all those things. Just, you know, maybe don't start crying about it on the 1st day of free agency.

 

[gimpy]

Heh, heh. I don’t know if I’ve read one thing on here that is fact and not opinion.

 

[jbjarko]

Yes. Allen and Murphy are both players with upside you'd hope to access through the hotshot coaching staff you just hired.

They'd be reaching their potential just at the time you hope that the rebuilding seeds your planting in the next two seasons will bloom.

In the meantime, they can provide leadership and help establish the culture you're trying to build in the locker room.



Fun straw-man argument. Only poverty fans are willing to sacrifice three straight seasons on the altar of a rebuild while the Giants go from 4-13 to the playoffs in a single season.

Give me a date you're waiting to judge the roster -- because this game goes on every offseason.

Judge the team by the end of free agency.

No, judge the roster after the draft.

No, judge the roster after June 1.

No, judge this team by what shows up in training camp.

You can't really judge this roster until Kyler Murray returns sometime after Halloween.

Well, it's going to take time for Kyler to get used to his new teammates and playbook -- he was only getting mental reps. Probably best to wait until next season.

I don’t have an exact date man. I just know it isn’t 3/15 before FA has actually started.

To each our own. I admittedly don’t know near as much as you or MANY people on this board about the nuances of football. I’m just a fan of a team I grew up with.

 

[jbjarko]

Jurecki

Ah yah. How could I forget, oh, I’m blocked

 

[BritCard]

No one knows. But we do know we lost two players that we drafted and developed.

I have no idea what drafting them or developing them has anything to do with anything.

All that matters is we have good players. Once they hit their first none rookie contract and want to get paid they are no different than any other player out there looking to get paid.

You could make an argument for "They know the scheme" etc but that isn't a factor now.

If you had a choice between Zach Allen and say, Jeffrey Simmons, you would take Simmons all day and whether we drafted and developed them wouldn't enter your head.

"We drafted and developed them" is what fans say when they can't actually make a case for them being good.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

On one thread you have Chopper arguing that re-signing O line guys that weren't part of a very good O line isn't how you get better.

And on this thread he's arguing that signing a guy that has been part of a D line for 4 years that hasn't been very good is the end of the world (You could also use this argument for DB's).

You must be registered for see images attach

yeah i'm getting dizzy trying to understand the logic

 

[Dayman]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media