Walter Mitchell on Free Agency

[Skkorpion]

http://arizonasportsfans.com/storypage.php?Story_ID=405&Category=cardinals

 

[Stout]

Walter, couldn't have said it any better myself...I mean, how anyone can put a positive spin on the fiasco at this moment is beyond me. Maybe a few miracles could still happen, but damn, would they have to be pretty awesome and un-frickin'-believable miracles, to save us.

 

[john h]

Originally posted by Stout
Walter, couldn't have said it any better myself...I mean, how anyone can put a positive spin on the fiasco at this moment is beyond me. Maybe a few miracles could still happen, but damn, would they have to be pretty awesome and un-frickin'-believable miracles, to save us.

Walter very much expressed my feelings. Free agency is not brain surgery. Either Graves is being controlled by someone above him or he is incompetent as a GM. Take your pick. How Green can say we will have to win with the team we have is beyond me. It was proably the worst team in the NFL last year and so far no real changes. We could not finish any worse in our division than last so I guess we cannot get much worse. What does the owner do if we finish last again? It is not going to be Greens fault. It is going to be the fault of whoever is putting this team together be it Graves or one of the Bidwills. Can these guys not be embarrased? If I owned this team I would stand up and apologize to the fans and tell them how I planned on getting better. Most of the guys who post on this board can see the problems but it appears Cardinal ownership or management does not have a clue. I have no idea how this group will draft but nothing will supprise me. Absolutely nothing. Every year it is the sam old thing. Wait unitl free agency, wait until June, wait until training camp, wait until next year. wait until we get a new stadium is built. The only thing I will believe is a win on the field as ownership and management spead double talk.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by john h
Walter very much expressed my feelings. Free agency is not brain surgery. Either Graves is being controlled by someone above him or he is incompetent as a GM. Take your pick. How Green can say we will have to win with the team we have is beyond me. It was proably the worst team in the NFL last year and so far no real changes. We could not finish any worse in our division than last so I guess we cannot get much worse. What does the owner do if we finish last again? It is not going to be Greens fault. It is going to be the fault of whoever is putting this team together be it Graves or one of the Bidwills. Can these guys not be embarrased? If I owned this team I would stand up and apologize to the fans and tell them how I planned on getting better. Most of the guys who post on this board can see the problems but it appears Cardinal ownership or management does not have a clue. I have no idea how this group will draft but nothing will supprise me. Absolutely nothing. Every year it is the sam old thing. Wait unitl free agency, wait until June, wait until training camp, wait until next year. wait until we get a new stadium is built. The only thing I will believe is a win on the field as ownership and management spead double talk.

And now that Berry is signed... you say?

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Northern Card
And now that Berry is signed... you say?

I don't know what he'd say, but I'd say that we and Rod got veeeery lucky. With the lackadaisical view of FA we took, we were quite fortunate that Berry ended up getting to our visit, let alone leaving town, and still signing with us.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Stout
I don't know what he'd say, but I'd say that we and Rod got veeeery lucky. With the lackadaisical view of FA we took, we were quite fortunate that Berry ended up getting to our visit, let alone leaving town, and still signing with us.

"lackadaisical" How could you possibly know that? Just because they aren't sending flashes after every contact, conversation, initial negotiation, doesn't mean they aren't doing all that's necessary to get things done with the players that they (not we) decide can help this team.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Northern Card
"lackadaisical" How could you possibly know that? Just because they aren't sending flashes after every contact, conversation, initial negotiation, doesn't mean they aren't doing all that's necessary to get things done with the players that they (not we) decide can help this team.

I think waiting two, three days before you get people in for a visit that can help your team is the concern. Granted, maybe that is up to the agent. But, it is awful risky.

Let's be happy we have someone who can be our pass rusher. Now, get 2 CBs or a CB and WR and I will be happy to see what happens in the draft.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by RedStorm
I think waiting two, three days before you get people in for a visit that can help your team is the concern. Granted, maybe that is up to the agent. But, it is awful risky.

Let's be happy we have someone who can be our pass rusher. Now, get 2 CBs or a CB and WR and I will be happy to see what happens in the draft.

Exactly. If it were only one guy, or two, then I may have been able to write it off and buy your line of reasoning, Northern. Unfortunately, it was a domino effect, and it is clear that we weren't moving fast enough to get them in for visits. You want to tell me that none of those guys could have possibly been scheduled any sooner? Mmm hmm. Right.

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by john h
Walter very much expressed my feelings. Free agency is not brain surgery. Either Graves is being controlled by someone above him or he is incompetent as a GM. Take your pick. How Green can say we will have to win with the team we have is beyond me. It was proably the worst team in the NFL last year and so far no real changes. We could not finish any worse in our division than last so I guess we cannot get much worse. What does the owner do if we finish last again? It is not going to be Greens fault. It is going to be the fault of whoever is putting this team together be it Graves or one of the Bidwills. Can these guys not be embarrased? If I owned this team I would stand up and apologize to the fans and tell them how I planned on getting better. Most of the guys who post on this board can see the problems but it appears Cardinal ownership or management does not have a clue. I have no idea how this group will draft but nothing will supprise me. Absolutely nothing. Every year it is the sam old thing. Wait unitl free agency, wait until June, wait until training camp, wait until next year. wait until we get a new stadium is built. The only thing I will believe is a win on the field as ownership and management spead double talk.

Yup.

 

[40yearfan]

When are you guys gonna get off "the same ole Cardinals" kick? It ain't the same old Cardinals. For the past 18 months or so, this organization has changed the ways it did things in the past on almost every faucet in this business. Sure they move slowly and maybe not near as fast as you like, but moving they are and they are moving in the right direction. Have a little patience and give them a chance. They just might surprise you.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
When are you guys gonna get off "the same ole Cardinals" kick? It ain't the same old Cardinals. For the past 18 months or so, this organization has changed the ways it did things in the past on almost every faucet in this business. Sure they move slowly and maybe not near as fast as you like, but moving they are and they are moving in the right direction. Have a little patience and give them a chance. They just might surprise you.

40year - this team is gonna have to prove it - The Berry signing was another good step in that direction and there are a lot of people today who have applauded the Cards moves today who were plenty hysterical the last week - but the bottom line I think you and I and everyone on this board will agree is that everyone WILL truly believe when the product on the field makes us believe - proof's in the pudding and last year's pudding tasted like crap - I think a lot of people are still trying to wash that taste out so why don't you practice as you preach and have a little patience for the naysayers to gain that complete faith as you apparently do?

 

[CardShark]

That article spoke the truth. The only thing it doesn't explain is the Cards approach. We'll probably never know. Whatever it was, it was bad. My hunch is that the Cards were looking for the players they could get on the cheap. Not the premiere players, but players like Hicks. But then why not sign those players when they do come in? As Walter stated, free agency is not a time for getting to know each other, it's time to make offers. Maybe it was the reaction of the fans during the first three days that led to the offers and signings on day 4. Why in the world aren't they talking to Taylor when he stated he wants to come here?

 

[RedStorm]

It is going to take alot to overcome the history that this franchise has built. We are talking decades of incompetence and busted dreams. Granted, there has been some positive moves (the best so far has been Green IMO).

For me, I want to see progress on the field. Wins. No blow out losses. For at least a few games, we blow the other team out and get to run out the clock. Those are my expectations for this year. Better coaching, better game management, and games where we are competitive for 60 mins.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Stout
You want to tell me that none of those guys could have possibly been scheduled any sooner? Mmm hmm. Right.

I can't answer that question. But, more important - how can you assert it? Where's the proof?

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Northern Card
I can't answer that question. But, more important - how can you assert it? Where's the proof?

You make me laugh. There's no proof my way...and no proof your way either. The only thing we have to go on is what we know...and we know we didn't get it done. Now, if we didn't get it done with one guy, or two, then okay, but we failed to get ANY of the big name guys in for a visit very fast. If it looks like a spade, smells like a spade, and acts like a spade...

But hey...continue your blindly loyal belief that they couldn't POSSIBLY have been slow out of the gates...then pray we get something from what's left of the CB market. Hmm, would have been nice to get some quality starting CBs in here for visits, eh?

 

[40yearfan]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
40year - this team is gonna have to prove it - The Berry signing was another good step in that direction and there are a lot of people today who have applauded the Cards moves today who were plenty hysterical the last week - but the bottom line I think you and I and everyone on this board will agree is that everyone WILL truly believe when the product on the field makes us believe - proof's in the pudding and last year's pudding tasted like crap - I think a lot of people are still trying to wash that taste out so why don't you practice as you preach and have a little patience for the naysayers to gain that complete faith as you apparently do?

C'mon Cheesy. You didn't see me running around and getting all upset because we didn't hire players on the first or second day. Graves did exactly what he said he would do and he didn't overpay. Give the man some due. He has a plan and he's sticking to it. As you stated, we won't know how well this plan is working until the season starts, but at least there is a plan and things are getting done. Two years ago, it seemed like we were kind of helter skelter in the free agent market just reaching for whomever was available. Now last year and this year, we have addressed positions of need, have managed the cap very well and should be poised this year to at least compete.

I know I certainly didn't take into account how bad our coaching was last year before the season started, but it became apparent very rapidly the more games we played. I still say this team has the talent to win, it just needs a real leader and people who can game plan. Hopefully we have that this year.

 

[Wild Card]

Kudos on the article

Walter:

Thanks for taking the time to articulate your concerns with the Cards'/ Rod Graves' methodology in free agency. I agreed with virtually everything contained in your article. Regarding your "update" comments, I concur that Berry is a nice consolation prize (after whiffing on the other three first-tier pass rushers in free agency), but I'm skeptical that Shaun King will be a significant upgrade over Jeff Blake in the QB rotation, and I'm curious to see what role Ayanbadejo plays with the Cards. Also relevant, I think, is that the Cards lost a starting CB in David Barrett at the same time that they added a starting DE. One step forward, one step back, eh?

WC

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Stout
You make me laugh. There's no proof my way...and no proof your way either.

This is really all you needed to say. The rest, is just more of you suggesting that somehow through some form of intuition (bias) that you know what has actually gone on.

I don't have phone logs, fax copies and Emails to make my point, so I simply say "I don't know..."... but, mildly suspect that there were conversations with agents and based on these they moved forward and continue to do so. With the same info, you assert the contrary. OK! fine. Leave it at that and continue with the "chuckling", if that's what makes you happy.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Northern Card
This is really all you needed to say. The rest, is just more of you suggesting that somehow through some form of intuition (bias) that you know what has actually gone on.

I don't have phone logs, fax copies and Emails to make my point, so I simply say "I don't know..."... but, mildly suspect that there were conversations with agents and based on these they moved forward and continue to do so. With the same info, you assert the contrary. OK! fine. Leave it at that and continue with the "chuckling", if that's what makes you happy.

See, that's much, much better. Neither of us know for sure, so we can agree to disagree. We were both arguing the opposite ends of the spectrum, and though I was probably closer to right than you (I mean, you have to point to phone logs and such, and I just have to refer to the obvious inactivity), we can't be certain.

So, have a drink of Cardinal Kool Aid with me, and pray we can somehow manage to upgrade the CB position now that most of the quality guys are gone.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Stout....
Why does everything always have to be ...

My way/your way...I'm right/you're wrong.....with you?

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Stout
See, that's much, much better. Neither of us know for sure, so we can agree to disagree. We were both arguing the opposite ends of the spectrum, and though I was probably closer to right than you (I mean, you have to point to phone logs and such, and I just have to refer to the obvious inactivity), we can't be certain.

So, have a drink of Cardinal Kool Aid with me, and pray we can somehow manage to upgrade the CB position now that most of the quality guys are gone.

I appreciate that your natural propensity towards condescension was a bit more tempered then usual, and that you actually ended on a positive note. Thank you, again.

From Todays Tribune...

Your point: As big names like Wistrom and cornerback Shawn Springs won the lottery, it was easy to criticize Arizona for what appeared to be a languid approach to free agency.

Reality: But the Cardinals were working. Graves was on the phone with agents at 10 p.m. Wednesday, the first minute of free agency. Visits were lined up.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Stout....
Why does everything always have to be ...

My way/your way...I'm right/you're wrong.....with you?

A phrase involving stones and a glass house is coming to mind...

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Northern Card
I appreciate that your natural propensity towards condescension was a bit more tempered then usual, and that you actually ended on a positive note. Thank you, again.

From Todays Tribune...

Your point: As big names like Wistrom and cornerback Shawn Springs won the lottery, it was easy to criticize Arizona for what appeared to be a languid approach to free agency.

Reality: But the Cardinals were working. Graves was on the phone with agents at 10 p.m. Wednesday, the first minute of free agency. Visits were lined up.

As I said, fair enough. I'm not fired up any more, and though we did move slow, it may not have been our fault. Let's look forward and see what else we can get done. Let's toss back a Guinness, shall we?

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Stout....
Why does everything always have to be ...

My way/your way...I'm right/you're wrong.....with you?

This coming after a reconcilliation? Er, not to be rude or anything, but why did you bother posting this?

 

[red desert]

[iReality: But the Cardinals were working. Graves was on the phone with agents at 10 p.m. Wednesday, the first minute of free agency. Visits were lined up. [/B]

Working perhaps, but certainly not as productive as they should have been. Given the team's needs and the team's salary cap situation.