Warning - Refs Will Let Lakers Foul In Game 5

[Irish]

The Suns had trouble with the Laker's "physical style" tonight. The Suns bigs got shoved around a lot.

Sadly, the Suns made too many mistakes and were terrible at the free throw line, but they could have won it.

 

[scXfreakX]

The Suns had trouble with the Laker's "physical style" tonight. The Suns bigs got shoved around a lot.

Sadly, the Suns made too many mistakes and were terrible at the free throw line, but they could have won it.

I agree. I feel the missed free throws ended up costing the game unfortunately. Doesn't it seem like Amare's free throw shooting has gotten worse?

 

[LostInTexas]

Besides a few fakers falling on Suns players. Anyway the Suns can still win this, our second unit played cruddy in the 2ed and they missed key free throws.

Suns are not out yet, The Palace is going to be crazy on Saturday and the fakers are going to have to work their -expletive- off to get a win.

 

[TucsonDevil]

I had to listen to key parts of the game on the radio. I laugh out loud when I listen to Al McCoy. I love the guy, but he is the biggest homer announcer. You would think that every call or non-call is due to a crooked officiating crew. It's hilarious. I must say though, he gave big props to Ron-Ron's game winning play, and said nothing about the proximity of Kobe's foot to the sideline.

As a Suns fan, I have always felt officiating was awful. However, what I have come to accept is - it isn't a conspiracy against the Suns, its just a flawed system. Every team is effected. Therefore, who cares - go out and play as the aggressor. You can condition the refs overtime by always being the aggressor. Suns, historically, have never really been the aggressor so it just seems like they get screwed at times. It's not personal.

 

[AzStevenCal]

As a Suns fan, I have always felt officiating was awful. However, what I have come to accept is - it isn't a conspiracy against the Suns, its just a flawed system. Every team is effected. Therefore, who cares - go out and play as the aggressor. You can condition the refs overtime by always being the aggressor. Suns, historically, have never really been the aggressor so it just seems like they get screwed at times. It's not personal.

+1. I've never believed the league or the refs were out to get us even though it often felt that way. I think we've had more games taken from us than any team in the league (by far) but through the years no team has had the offensive reputation that we've had. People tend to equate offense with softness and defense with aggressive play and it shows up in the free throw column.

I think we've been given a more fair shake in this Lakers series than any Lakers series in our history and it's in large part to a changing perception. We're no longer viewed solely as a jump shooting team that likes to fast break.

Steve

 

[95pro]

Besides a few fakers falling on Suns players. Anyway the Suns can still win this, our second unit played cruddy in the 2ed and they missed key free throws.

Suns are not out yet, The Palace is going to be crazy on Saturday and the fakers are going to have to work their -expletive- off to get a win.

im pretty sure ass is not censored/blocked.

 

[Bufalay]

I had to listen to key parts of the game on the radio. I laugh out loud when I listen to Al McCoy. I love the guy, but he is the biggest homer announcer. You would think that every call or non-call is due to a crooked officiating crew. It's hilarious. I must say though, he gave big props to Ron-Ron's game winning play, and said nothing about the proximity of Kobe's foot to the sideline.

As a Suns fan, I have always felt officiating was awful. However, what I have come to accept is - it isn't a conspiracy against the Suns, its just a flawed system. Every team is effected. Therefore, who cares - go out and play as the aggressor. You can condition the refs overtime by always being the aggressor. Suns, historically, have never really been the aggressor so it just seems like they get screwed at times. It's not personal.

Al can blame it on the old age. What is Kempton's excuse? He's awful.

 

[Irish]

One of the biggest problems I have with TNT is who they rarely if ever show replays of questionable calls. Admittedly many calls are right, but sadly the video does not confirm that often enough.

Obiously there will always be disputed calls, but I would love to have officals PUBLICLY do through the videos and explain why calls are made or not made.

1) I wish they would clarify what exactly is "charging"? Why are so many calls made even when the defender is moving and other calls when the defender's feet apear to be set?

2) What kind of hand checking is outlawed? How can Nash be continually mauled while other touch fouls get a pass?

3) How can we spot a moving screen/pick versus a player that is just moving without intention of blocking anyone?

4) What is the definiiion of "clearing out" with the off hand? Has it EVER been called on Kobe?

5) How much contract is permitted by rebounders who reach over other guys to get the ball?

6) Why is hitting the arm of a guy dribbling the ball so rarely called as a foul?

I guess the list could go on an on, but the NBA does tive an awful lot od discretion to the refs and having Stern fine anybody who questions calls doesn't make it better.

How was it that Daugherty got away with admittedlychanging the results of games, yet the NBA did not catch it.

 

[tobiazz]

One of the biggest problems I have with TNT is who they rarely if ever show replays of questionable calls. Admittedly many calls are right, but sadly the video does not confirm that often enough.

Obiously there will always be disputed calls, but I would love to have officals PUBLICLY do through the videos and explain why calls are made or not made.

1) I wish they would clarify what exactly is "charging"? Why are so many calls made even when the defender is moving and other calls when the defender's feet apear to be set?

2) What kind of hand checking is outlawed? How can Nash be continually mauled while other touch fouls get a pass?

3) How can we spot a moving screen/pick versus a player that is just moving without intention of blocking anyone?

4) What is the definiiion of "clearing out" with the off hand? Has it EVER been called on Kobe?

5) How much contract is permitted by rebounders who reach over other guys to get the ball?

6) Why is hitting the arm of a guy dribbling the ball so rarely called as a foul?

I guess the list could go on an on, but the NBA does tive an awful lot od discretion to the refs and having Stern fine anybody who questions calls doesn't make it better.

How was it that Daugherty got away with admittedlychanging the results of games, yet the NBA did not catch it.

It bothers me that TNT does not replay lots of blatantly wrong calls, even when it leads to a T, but they don't want to besmirch the product they paid many millions to sell. The number one goal of the NBA is to make money and the league office couldn't care less about fairness aside from the fact that too many people will stop buying the product if it is blatantly unfair.

All of the questions above are very good. Aside from #3 and maybe #4, the Suns, historically, have gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to equality on these calls. I never understood how Nash used to get hammered all the time and then the other team's dribbler would draw a foul when brushed with a hand. Things have changed though and I often see Nash complaining when it looks like an opponent cleanly strips the ball from him. The muggings have decreased.

 

[gentrinity]

One of the biggest problems I have with TNT is who they rarely if ever show replays of questionable calls. Admittedly many calls are right, but sadly the video does not confirm that often enough.

Obiously there will always be disputed calls, but I would love to have officals PUBLICLY do through the videos and explain why calls are made or not made.

1) I wish they would clarify what exactly is "charging"? Why are so many calls made even when the defender is moving and other calls when the defender's feet apear to be set?

2) What kind of hand checking is outlawed? How can Nash be continually mauled while other touch fouls get a pass?

3) How can we spot a moving screen/pick versus a player that is just moving without intention of blocking anyone?

4) What is the definiiion of "clearing out" with the off hand? Has it EVER been called on Kobe?

5) How much contract is permitted by rebounders who reach over other guys to get the ball?

6) Why is hitting the arm of a guy dribbling the ball so rarely called as a foul?

I guess the list could go on an on, but the NBA does tive an awful lot od discretion to the refs and having Stern fine anybody who questions calls doesn't make it better.

How was it that Daugherty got away with admittedlychanging the results of games, yet the NBA did not catch it.

Hey, Laker fan here, first time posting. I saw your post and I thought it was a great idea.

I would personally like to add one to this list, because it is driving me crazy. I truly believe it is the most inconsistently called contact out there.

After the league gifted Wade his championship, you are now allowed to protect the basket from the restricted area as long as you jump straight up or at least retreat somewhat. You have no idea how terribly frustrating it can be to watch Andrew Bynum do the exact same move twice and get called for a foul on one, and a no call on the other.

See, I am all in favor of holding the whistle when the offensive player is the one that initiates contact. This means things like jumping straight up or having established your position should never be whistled no matter how the offensive player makes it look.

So lets take a non-call on the Lakers last night in the 4th quarter where Odom jumped into Frye. Odom cried for a whistle and if you go by how the series has been officiated, it should have been a foul on Frye to remain consistent. A quarter earlier, Bynum jumps back as Amare jumps into him and it's a foul. How would I have liked to see that officiated, neither should have been a foul call. Odom had to suck it up and keep playing because he initiated the contact, but so did Amare.

Now, I am one of the few Laker fans that is not looking at the freethrow disparity and using that to judge whether it's fair or not. After re-watching game 5, I can honestly say that during your run, you had a fair amount of favorable calls. But still, there were a good amount of calls on you guys that I thought were complete BS. My point is, it's all in the perception of the fans. As I wrote in the Lakers' forum, there are several factors that contribute to a fan bias;


1.) Every fan base has similar threads in their forums. Everyone complains about refs. The Laker fans think that Kobe gets crap treatment, everyone else in the NBA thinks he gets preferential treatment. The same dynamic happens here with LeBron where we think he gets all the calls and Cav fans complain that he doesn't. Fans are biased.

2.) Not every fan is truly aware of all of the NBA rules and do not watch enough games to understand refereeing trends. A play comes to mind where a player catches the ball in the air at mid court and a defender did not give him space to land and switch directions. I saw fans irate at this call in the front row. They were completely wrong to get upset, it was a good call by the official. This further distorts a fans perception of what is fair officiating.

3.) A lot of fans just look at box scores and do not actually watch the games. So they look at freethrow discrepancies and base their opinions on that.

4.) Fans get the benefit of watching replays while officials need to make calls in the spur of the moment. Very hard to do. This allows fans to nitpick officiating and it is even worse if they do not understand the rules.

5.) If an influential fan starts posting about biased officiating and starts to say it over and over again, whether he is right or now, he will start getting a sort of bandwagon of fans that will buy into the same stuff. Now you create a mob of people complaining and it only keeps creating more bias.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Hey, Laker fan here, first time posting. I saw your post and I thought it was a great idea.

Good post. However, we're already well over our allotted number of reasonable Lakers fans on this forum. You might be better served to pretend to be a reasonable Nuggets fan, we're way short on that quota.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

I truly believe it is the most inconsistently called contact out there.

After the league gifted Wade his championship, you are now allowed to protect the basket from the restricted area as long as you jump straight up or at least retreat somewhat. You have no idea how terribly frustrating it can be to watch Andrew Bynum do the exact same move twice and get called for a foul on one, and a no call on the other.

I agree, this call is extremely inconsistent in every game I watch. I'm tempted to guess that the referees themselves aren't in agreement about what the move is supposed to be. You can tell that the players are frustrated because they honestly don't know what is a foul and what is not.

Dwight Howard picked up his third foul before halftime in last night's game by jumping straight up in the restricted area. The official explained (you could see his hand gestures) that it was because Howard extended his arms forward toward the offensive player after the contact. But all of the contact had already occurred by then; what Howard did with his arms afterward shouldn't have made any difference.

Block/charge is always going to be difficult because everything happens so quickly. But Irish's point about inconsistency in hand-checking calls is also quite valid.

 

[gentrinity]

I agree, this call is extremely inconsistent in every game I watch. I'm tempted to guess that the referees themselves aren't in agreement about what the move is supposed to be. You can tell that the players are frustrated because they honestly don't know what is a foul and what is not.

Dwight Howard picked up his third foul before halftime in last night's game by jumping straight up in the restricted area. The official explained (you could see his hand gestures) that it was because Howard extended his arms forward toward the offensive player after the contact. But all of the contact had already occurred by then; what Howard did with his arms afterward shouldn't have made any difference.

Block/charge is always going to be difficult because everything happens so quickly. But Irish's point about inconsistency in hand-checking calls is also quite valid.

I love how you brought that point up because you see this in other sports, particularly baseball where every umpire has his own strike zone. It is conceivable that the NBA officials each have a personal way of calling things. So, think about this for a second; what if they referees themselves are unbiased, but since they prefer to call games a certain way, wouldn't the NBA be able to influence games by just picking certain referees? That actually makes a lot of sense and could be discussed further.

Hand checking has also been very inconsistent. For instance, Nash will get several handchecks on the perimeter, but I remember that and1 play late in the 4th where Fisher just put his hands on him for a light handcheck and bam! foul call. Fisher was perplexed. But like so many of you have stated, it's not because it isn't a foul, it's because that sort of contact has been allowed all game with no whistle. Same thing happened with Dragic several times with Kobe. He gave Kobe some strong handchecks and then gets called for a little bump, all in the same play.

See, I was truly hating the league for several years because it was rewarding perimeter players way too much. This is why Wade was able to win the Finals, the league had adjusted the rules so that he could go untouched to the rim. So the league doesn't have to overtly control games, they just need to put officials or rules that they know will favor certain teams.

Now things seem like they are starting to get back to the old days; the way I like it. I want handchecking and I want that restricted are removed. That is one thing I love about FIBA and how they will not award fouls to players who initiate contact. If Bynum or Stoudamire jump straight up in the restricted zone, then all bets are off, if you threw yourself into them, that's on you, no matter how nasty your spill was.

Unfortunately this league needs to cater to those casual fans who make up the majority of its fan base. The fans that just want to see flashy dunks and who equate flashy block shots with defensive player of the year or 1st team all defense, something I swear is a sham. How LeBron and Kobe made it to that team is beyond me. So you will continue to see a lot of stupid rules that just make it easier for guards to do whatever they want and the post players will continue to play the man's game.

Now, here's the thing. Some transparency by the league would be nice, but you have to understand that people will nitpick if they were to release any sort of statistical data on how the officials perform. People will look at the data and extract whatever conclusions their minds can conjure up. Basically, as my brother with an MBA has said, "you can make the numbers say whatever you want".

Now Stern is thinking of removing the defensive 3 second. The contradictions are rampant. They better start allowing teams to play defense or I will stop watching.

 

[BC867]

Basically, as my brother with an MBA has said, "you can make the numbers say whatever you want".

Or to put it another way . . . Figures don't lie, but liars figure.