Was McCown doomed from the start?

AZCB34

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Being one of the bigger pro-McCown people on the board, i am saddened by the recent comments from Graves on McCown's development...or lack thereof. It seems the writing is on the wall and in a worst case scenario, McCown will be fighting for a roster spot next year. Best case is, Graves said what he said to try and light a fire under the kid...however I am realistic enough to know it wasn't motivational but rather an indictment.

I do wonder though what could have been. I think about us ordinary folks in the working world and wonder if we had jobs where the management didn't give us many assignments and never truly tested us and then criticized us for not helping the business grow or whatever. And as a final act, "fired" us from our jobs without ever kinowing what the company truly had.

Personally I have said many times, I think this is what is happeneing with McCown. That is the way it is in the NFL...I know that...but it doesn't make it right. Simply put, in true NFL action...where the scoree is 0-0 with 60 minutes to play, the Cards coaches and management have NO CLUE what McCown can or cannot do.

I played enough football to know, practice counts but game action is where jobs are won and lost. I have only wanted for Josh to get a real shot at starting. I wanted him to get all the starter reps in practice for the week and to gameplanned around. The nervousness he exudes is probably normal. If he had an entire game, I think he would work through the nerves during the week and be ready to roll come Sunday. It appears as though we will never know.

But that got me to thinking about the Cards drafting McCown in the first place. If the Cards get rid of him...either by cutting him or demoting him to 3rd string...it will have been a wasted 3rd round pick in 2002. Krang is on his way right now to continue our disagreement on wasting a pick on a QB. But if a team doesn't give a player...any player...a real chance to perform, then it has been a wasted pick.

There are certainly players drafted after McCown who could have filled some of the gaping holes on this team and maybe even helped the Cards to win a few more. Marquis Walker was taken 5 spots after McCown and Graves traded for him so we could have clearly drafted him and who knows what may have transpired.

But when a QB is drafted in round 3, does that doom the player from ever making an impact. I went all the way back to 1990 and looked up every QB that was drafted in round 3

1990 - Tommy Hodson, Peter Tom Willis, Neil O'Donnell
1991 - None
1992 - None
1993 - Billy Joe Hobert
1994 - None
1995 - Stoney Case, Eric Zeier
1996 - Bobby Hoying
1997 - None
1998 Jonathan Quinn, Brian Griese
1999 - Brock Huard
2000 - Giovanni Carmazzi, Chris Redman
2001 - None

With the above list, there are almost as many guys with 2 first names as there are success stories (2-3). So what is it about the 3rd round and QBs. There are alot of 1s and 2s and alot of 4-7s. Is it a case of the 3rd round being a dead zone for QBs? Either a QB is a high pick or a second day pick? did McCown ever have a fighting chance where he was drafted. Would anyone here feel different if he had been drafted in round 6...like maybe lower expectations of him?

Maybe starting McCown will only confirm the doomsdayers or maybe the Cards would have suddenly found a gem in their midst. If the kid never gets a real shot, nobody will ever know.
 

Russ Smith

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My 2 cents. I think the issue with Josh is that moreso than any other position in football, QB has a lot less to do with athletic ability and a lot more to do with understanding something. Helps to be big and fast with a great arm, but a lot of those guys have failed because they couldn't grasp an offense.

To me QB is the precise wrong position to draft a guy strictly on athletic talent. Take a guy like Dorsey in round 7, the only reason he's drafted is because he was so successful in college that people figure he knew how to play the game even if he lacked an arm. So far the 49ers are thrilled with him.

There just aren't a whole lot of QB's drafted on sheer athletic ability that pan out, even Favre was successful in college and Brooks led the country in passing efficiency most of his senior year.

I always doubted the pick because he didn't succeed until he moved down in competition. I think it's too soon to give up on him but that sure sounds like Graves has based on what he said. I just think in a perfect world he'd be the 3rd QB and playing in NFL Europe, not the 2nd QB and only playing in blowouts.
 

red desert

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Just last year I was hearing the we were "thrilled" with McCown. And look at us now. That having been said, I like Dorsey.
 

Cheesebeef

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Originally posted by pinnacle
we spent a third round pick on Stoney Case? ouch.

wait - we spent a SECOND round pick on - drum roll, please . . . TONY SACCA! Folks, we ain't gonna get lucky with a QB like some other more fortunate teams have - we need the number 1 pick - ELI!
 

pinnacle

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cheesebeef...it is a long list of wasted picks..I was suprised we drafted case that high....

DRAFT ELI!
 

Russ Smith

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Originally posted by red desert
Just last year I was hearing the we were "thrilled" with McCown. And look at us now. That having been said, I like Dorsey.

I think Dorsey is the next Jason Garrett, the problem is unless Rattay is the next Aikman, who does he backup? Even now he just doesn't have the arm to make the throws an NFL QB has to make.

But he's also a kid who's smart and understands things so if you do have to play him he won't kill you with a ton of mental mistakes either. If you limit what you ask him to do physically he can be ok in an emergency if Rattay got hurt. With Josh I'm not sure that's true, we've already seen the bad decisions and Graves talked about his nervousness. I assume he means in the huddle and yeah I would assume that would impact a team.

Don't give up yet but by all means send the guy to NFL europe this offseason. Kitna went there, he's doing pretty well now.
 

kerouac9

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Was McCown put in a position to succeed? No. But there have been a lot of QBs that weren't, either, but still managed to make something of themselves. Aaron Brooks springs immediately to mind. Matt Hasselback does, too.

Two things bother me about McCown, and one of the isn't his fault. The first is that it's really not fair that they put him out there in garbage time and expect him to huck the ball downfield three times and then take a seat and get the game explained to him by Chryst. He's got freaking NFL DEs pinning their ears back and gunning for him. That's not fair to a kid that didn't get to play against anyone good in college.

The second thing is that no one seems to believe in him, and I mean no one on the team, no one in the huddle, no one on the sidelines. This is the time when McCown needed to step up and assert himself as being ready to play if we need him. I don't think that anyone on this team puts in the extra effort that it takes to contend, but Josh McCown needed to be all alone in the film room watching tape after hours and looking at his note pad. He needed to let his teammates know that they can depend on him. Do you think that anyone in Philly was worried when Koy Detmer or the other guy went into the huddle after McNabb got hurt? I don't. I don't think the Falcs offense was as off-balance at the beginning of the season when Doug Johnson went unto the huddle, but these guys don't really seem to believe in Josh McCown, and that's Josh's fault for not getting involved with the team on the field, on the sideline, whatever.
 
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AZCB34

AZCB34

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Originally posted by cheesebeef
wait - we spent a SECOND round pick on - drum roll, please . . . TONY SACCA! Folks, we ain't gonna get lucky with a QB like some other more fortunate teams have - we need the number 1 pick - ELI!

Just for fun, all the QBs taken in the draft by the Cards since 1982, round and school. I apologize if I left off any other standouts.

1984 - Tim Riordan (3) Temple, Kyle Mackey (11) Texas A&M Commerce
1986 - Kent Austin (12) Mississippi
1987 - Kelly Stouffer (1) Colorado St
1989 - Timm Rosenbach (1) Washington St
1991 - Jeff Bridewell (12) Cal-Davis
1992 - Tony Sacca (2) Penn ST
1995 - Stoney Case (3) New Mexico
1997 - Jake Plummer (2) ASU
2002 - Josh McCown (3) Sam Houston

One thing I noticed when doing this was the Cards always took ALOT of OL and DL through the years and they seemed to take at least one K/P each year.
 

Russ Smith

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I notice the problem, we only draft right handed QB's! Take David Greene in 2 or 3 this year. The setup is perfect, he's having a down year so he'll slide in the draft.

He's certainly not in Manning's league but i wouldn't be surprised in 3 years if he's not a starter for some NFL team.
 

Russ Smith

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You know there is another kid in college who has some real intriguing talent both as a passer and a runner. Name is Luke something or other maybe we can draft him this year....
 

Assface

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Originally posted by Russ Smith
You know there is another kid in college who has some real intriguing talent both as a passer and a runner. Name is Luke something or other maybe we can draft him this year....

LOL

I don't know sibling rivalvries can get nasty. Just look at Cheesebeef and..uh...that other guy. Whassisname, Cheesie's little follower.

:devil:
 

Skkorpion

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The only time Josh McCown EVER looked OK to me, not good, was in training camp this year.

Other than that, he has always looked lost.

No doubt, this staff didn't have a clue how to coach QBs - witness Jake Plummer and Jeff Blake - but Josh always plays dumb and sounds dumb in interviews too.

He should still have been given more of a chance to play.
 

ajcardfan

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Originally posted by Russ Smith
I notice the problem, we only draft right handed QB's! Take David Greene in 2 or 3 this year. The setup is perfect, he's having a down year so he'll slide in the draft.

He's certainly not in Manning's league but i wouldn't be surprised in 3 years if he's not a starter for some NFL team.

Yeah, and with Clement guarding his backside.....

oops, better rethink that one Russ! :D
 

b8rtm8nn

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Originally posted by Skkorpion
The only time Josh McCown EVER looked OK to me, not good, was in training camp this year.

Other than that, he has always looked lost.

No doubt, this staff didn't have a clue how to coach QBs - witness Jake Plummer and Jeff Blake - but Josh always plays dumb and sounds dumb in interviews too.

He should still have been given more of a chance to play.

I always think of the pre-season game where I watch him come off the field jawing with Preston and I'm thinking "Jesus, that kids needs some Ritalin!"

He looks as high strung as my 10 year old nephew who sprints end to end across the field for soccer yet forgets to go after the ball.
 

AzCards21

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Originally posted by Skkorpion
The only time Josh McCown EVER looked OK to me, not good, was in training camp this year.

Other than that, he has always looked lost.

No doubt, this staff didn't have a clue how to coach QBs - witness Jake Plummer and Jeff Blake - but Josh always plays dumb and sounds dumb in interviews too.

He should still have been given more of a chance to play.

Then why isn't Parsons #2? I understand the whole he hasn't played the first or second string guys but.... I watched him in the preseason and he was throwing bullets. Yes, the bullets were against third stringers but the passes were crisp anyway. Any inside there?
 

bigredjane

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Skorp-

You nailed it best, he does sound dumb and I've been around him when he has been interviewed and heard him talk, it's a duh kind of thing. When he has taken over for the team I just get the chills and wonder what disaster is coming!
 

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