Watching the Twins succeed from afar.....

[Hoop Head]

I agree. They were not keeping Cam. He wasn't our answer at the PF position and they would have had to pay him a ton of money for a guy that wasn't the long term answer for that spot. This trade took them out of a really tough spot with Cam J.

Don't think we're agreeing. I'm just saying I don't see Cam J leaving as a foregone conclusion. He'd be a restricted free agent. His health issues would keep another team from risking a crazy big offer to him, especially as a RFA. I think he would have been kept on a deal lesser than Mikal's, which would have been ok. This owner isn't afraid to pay to win. I don't think Cam's contract would have been much of an issue in retaining him as far as if the Suns found a number fair for him as a part time starter/sixth man.

 

[Covert Rain]

Don't think we're agreeing. I'm just saying I don't see Cam J leaving as a foregone conclusion. He'd be a restricted free agent. His health issues would keep another team from risking a crazy big offer to him, especially as a RFA. I think he would have been kept on a deal lesser than Mikal's, which would have been ok. This owner isn't afraid to pay to win. I don't think Cam's contract would have been much of an issue in retaining him as far as if the Suns found a number fair for him as a part time starter/sixth man.

That's the issue though. Outside this trade it was going to very difficult to get a legit starting PF. I think Cam J was getting his money. You pay him that kind of money you are basically committed to him that spot. If the KD trade didn't happen, I was putting money on they were moving Cam J possibly to help land that PF. Just my opinion.

 

[Chaplin]

SMH at all the people that are still trying to convince us that we shouldn’t have done the trade.

 

[Hoop Head]

SMH at those who can't handle anyone discussing Cam and Mikal without trying to say the trade was the best thing ever.

 

[AzStevenCal]

SMH at all the people that are still trying to convince us that we shouldn’t have done the trade.

Well could it be because those in favor of the trade keep ignoring the real reason many of us are concerned about it. Over and again posters here keep saying "see, Durant is great so this trade is great" or something similar.

Yes, KD is great. Yes, he is superior even to the new and improved Bridges. Yes, Bridges might not be as good as his Brooklyn numbers suggest. Yes, if we win a title (or titles) because of this trade most of us will be happy we made the deal (even me who will always consider it an unnecessary overpayment). But the main issue is over KD's availability which, from posts on this forum, seems to be glossed over or ignored by many of those in favor of the deal.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The problem is it's impossible to know where that line is. If the team wins a title, clearly that line was never crossed. It's impossible to know right now.

Its about what you want in a team. Do you want a perennial contender but no title, or do you want to go for winning it all and cycling back down and rebuilding again?

The Jerry Colangelo Suns were the perennial contenders but no title-type teams. Always there, always in the mix, but almost always in that tier just below the top. This is something different. It is a leap. It is a reasonable leap, but still a leap, and we will cycle back down to obscurity once it is over. We are not going to be San Antonio with 20 years of contention by drafting Duncan and Robinson. We have chosen a smaller window.

 

[Hoop Head]

Well could it be because those in favor of the trade keep ignoring the real reason many of us are concerned about it. Over and again posters here keep saying "see, Durant is great so this trade is great" or something similar.

Yes, KD is great. Yes, he is superior even to the new and improved Bridges. Yes, Bridges might not be as good as his Brooklyn numbers suggest. Yes, if we win a title (or titles) because of this trade most of us will be happy we made the deal (even me who will always consider it an unnecessary overpayment). But the main issue is over KD's availability which, from posts on this forum, seems to be glossed over or ignored by many of those in favor of the deal.

I'd add from day 1 it seems those most vocal about this being "the best trade EVER!" really come across like they're trying to convince themselves more than others. They can't stand to see a reason why it isn't universally praised.

Also just days before this trade happened you can find posts from virtually everyone on the board saying that the line in the sand for cost should be Cam or Mikal plus filler and 3-4 picks, including swaps. Yet that line wasn't just stepped over but bulldozed and repaved so you'd never knew there was once a line in the first place.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'd add from day 1 it seems those most vocal about this being "the best trade EVER!" really come across like they're trying to convince themselves more than others. They can't stand to see a reason why it isn't universally praised.

Also just days before this trade happened you can find posts from virtually everyone on the board saying that the line in the sand for cost should be Cam or Mikal plus filler and 3-4 picks, including swaps. Yet that line wasn't just stepped over but bulldozed and repaved so you'd never knew there was once a line in the first place.

Can you show me a single person who actually said this was the best trade ever? Maybe there was one. I have seen lots of people say it was a good trade and/or worth the risk but this above is clearly misrepresenting what the vast majority of people here have said.

 

[Chaplin]

Well could it be because those in favor of the trade keep ignoring the real reason many of us are concerned about it. Over and again posters here keep saying "see, Durant is great so this trade is great" or something similar.

Yes, KD is great. Yes, he is superior even to the new and improved Bridges. Yes, Bridges might not be as good as his Brooklyn numbers suggest. Yes, if we win a title (or titles) because of this trade most of us will be happy we made the deal (even me who will always consider it an unnecessary overpayment). But the main issue is over KD's availability which, from posts on this forum, seems to be glossed over or ignored by many of those in favor of the deal.

That’s the thing, people are so obsessed with what might be versus what is.

 

[elindholm]

Thank God this board didn’t exist in 1993 because the over the top lamentation about Jeff Hornacek putting up 19/7/3 for a bad Philly team while Charles Barkley played like an MVP for an actual contender would have been almost too much to take.

Barkley was 29 when he was traded to the Suns. It's not just about this season.

 

[Chaplin]

I'd add from day 1 it seems those most vocal about this being "the best trade EVER!" really come across like they're trying to convince themselves more than others. They can't stand to see a reason why it isn't universally praised.

Also just days before this trade happened you can find posts from virtually everyone on the board saying that the line in the sand for cost should be Cam or Mikal plus filler and 3-4 picks, including swaps. Yet that line wasn't just stepped over but bulldozed and repaved so you'd never knew there was once a line in the first place.

Not the best trade ever, however there is evidence to suggest it might be the best mid season trade ever.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'd add from day 1 it seems those most vocal about this being "the best trade EVER!" really come across like they're trying to convince themselves more than others. They can't stand to see a reason why it isn't universally praised.

Also just days before this trade happened you can find posts from virtually everyone on the board saying that the line in the sand for cost should be Cam or Mikal plus filler and 3-4 picks, including swaps. Yet that line wasn't just stepped over but bulldozed and repaved so you'd never knew there was once a line in the first place.

I can't say I've noticed (one way or the other) what you're saying in your first paragraph but yeah, I agree with your second paragraph.

 

[Covert Rain]

I can't say I've noticed (one way or the other) what you're saying in your first paragraph but yeah, I agree with your second paragraph.

To be fair, that's because what fans think is fair and what the market value actually dictates don't often align. This forum is full of posts from fans overvaluing our players and then some.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That’s the thing, people are so obsessed with what might be versus what is.

I'm not sure I'm getting your point here? To me, "what is" has to include the fact that Kevin misses a lot of games and his age and injury suggest that situation will worsen. If you're talking about the Bridges love, very few posters have fixated on the idea that even though KD is great, Mikal might become great too. I think most of us know Mikal simply doesn't have Durant-level potential.

 

[Hoop Head]

Can you show me a single person who actually said this was the best trade ever? Maybe there was one. I have seen lots of people say it was a good trade and/or worth the risk but this above is clearly misrepresenting what the vast majority of people here have said.

I am not going to call out posters specifically for their hyperbole. This has been talked about as the best Suns trade ever. I believe their meaning is primarily what was brought in rather than the total pieces involved but it's far too early to call it even a great trade, IMO. We need to see more than 3 games with Durant to start saying whether it was a great trade or not given what was given up.

 

[AzStevenCal]

To be fair, that's because what fans think is fair and what the market value actually dictates don't often align. This forum is full of fans overvaluing our players and then some.

Every forum is full of fans that overvalue their players, just like here and elsewhere have a good share of posters that go the other way too. But this is an overpayment because we gave up 4 unprotected picks while swapping for players that greatly increase the likelihood those picks will increase in value.

I don't consider it an overpayment because I think Mikal or CamJ are great players. I believe it's an overpayment because Bridges was an iron man and Durant is a 34 year old version of Anthony Davis with two eyebrows.

And I believe it's an overpayment because contracts and 4 picks from Memphis are worth far less than our offer (because of their depth and player age, those picks aren't worth nearly as much) and was apparently the next best offer they had.

And, again, with Kyrie gone and Durant unhappy, IMO Brooklyn was a motivated seller and almost sure to make a last minute deal with someone if we hadn't stepped up and met their every wish. We had time to negotiate and didn't.

 

[JCSunsfan]

To be fair, that's because what fans think is fair and what the market value actually dictates don't often align. This forum is full of posts from fans overvaluing our players and then some.

Posters always say this. I do not believe we were over-valuing Mikal or Cam. Maybe we were undervaluing them.

Still think we should have done the trade.

 

[Covert Rain]

Every forum is full of fans that overvalue their players, just like here and elsewhere have a good share of posters that go the other way too. But this is an overpayment because we gave up 4 unprotected picks while swapping for players that greatly increase the likelihood those picks will increase in value.

I don't consider it an overpayment because I think Mikal or CamJ are great players. I believe it's an overpayment because Bridges was an iron man and Durant is a 34 year old version of Anthony Davis with two eyebrows.

And I believe it's an overpayment because contracts and 4 picks from Memphis are worth far less than our offer (because of their depth and player age, those picks aren't worth as much) and was apparently the next best offer they had.

And, again, with Kyrie gone and Durant unhappy, IMO Brooklyn was a motivated seller and almost sure to make a last minute deal with someone if we hadn't stepped up and met their every wish. We had time to negotiate and didn't.

Sure there are fans the other way but by nature, hometown fans are more lopsided the other way. It's evident here as well.

I don't see a likelihood of those 4 picks at all. Ishiba won't sit on his hands. We still have every other pick. Outside a complete a total collapse the team will be competitive. None of those are going to be a top 3 pick. Outside of that all those picks are crap shoots.

Also, per reports none of those other teams made it past initial offer discussions. That offer from Memphis doesn't mean it was even close to being accepted or that they were even close to a deal.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Every forum is full of fans that overvalue their players, just like here and elsewhere have a good share of posters that go the other way too. But this is an overpayment because we gave up 4 unprotected picks while swapping for players that greatly increase the likelihood those picks will increase in value.

I don't consider it an overpayment because I think Mikal or CamJ are great players. I believe it's an overpayment because Bridges was an iron man and Durant is a 34 year old version of Anthony Davis with two eyebrows.

And I believe it's an overpayment because contracts and 4 picks from Memphis are worth far less than our offer (because of their depth and player age, those picks aren't worth nearly as much) and was apparently the next best offer they had.

And, again, with Kyrie gone and Durant unhappy, IMO Brooklyn was a motivated seller and almost sure to make a last minute deal with someone if we hadn't stepped up and met their every wish. We had time to negotiate and didn't.

You can compare the offers all you want, but NBA trade history is full of teams taking what everyone else thinks is the lesser deal, or just not doing the deal at all. In the end, it was whether we really wanted Durant or not. Comparing other offers is pointless. We just do not know if the Nets would have taken that deal or not.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm not sure I'm getting your point here? To me, "what is" has to include the fact that Kevin misses a lot of games and his age and injury suggest that situation will worsen. If you're talking about the Bridges love, very few posters have fixated on the idea that even though KD is great, Mikal might become great too. I think most of us know Mikal simply doesn't have Durant-level potential.

He's not injured right now, knock on wood. That's the now. If you're only argument against the trade (set aside the draft picks for a moment) is that Bridges has proven to be more durable than Durant, then that's fine. IMO the risk is worth it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So, since Booker's injury, both on the Suns, and now on the Nets, Mikal has basically switched from SF to SG. I assume that changes matchups for him both defensively and offensively. Has this had an impact on his breakout?

 

[GatorAZ]

I’ll eat my share of crow if this deal backfired but I don’t see why KD won’t be elite for the remainder of his contact. He’s bounced back from every injury at an absurd level. He just came back from missing two months, in a new system with new teammates and he’s shooting 70% from the field and looks fine. We not only acquired a superstar but one that might turn Book into a superstar.

 

[Mainstreet]

Mikal Bridges with 30 points, 5 assists and the Chris Paul rip through.

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[SirStefan32]

30 points for Bridges. Rough night for Cam.

 

[Muggz]

I'll tell you in 3.5 years if the trade was worth it or not. Would I have made the trade as GM/owner? Yes 100% Without question.
IF we gave Mikal more touches yes he could be doing that here, but KD does it without MORE touches allowing Booker to take his 75 shots a night.
KD is 100% plug and play, I have no doubt he could drop 40pts playing on any team in the league, while the team runs its normal plays around him.
That's why KDs here and Mikal isn't.
Its scary but props to Ishbia for doing something.