We are not San Antonio...

[TucsonDevil]

I continue to read and hear from Suns Fans that the situation with the Suns isn't dire since "San Antonio also struggles at times during the regular season and seems to turn it on in the post-season."

That completely misses the point. Here is why we can't compare the two (or to the Houston Rockets of the mid 90s).

1. The Spurs have won 3 championships, and have proven that their key players excel in the post-season. The Suns are in the exact opposite position with zero rings and an inconsistent playoff roster, sans Nash - he does perform well in the playoffs.

2. The Spurs execute a style of basketball that is successful in the post season. The Suns execute a style that has never resulted in a championship, ever.

3. The Spurs are utilizing bench, saving energy of key players, suffering from nagging injuries, and/or trying different things during their early season 'slumps'. The same can not be said of the Suns except for maybe nagging injuries (which rarely results in expanding the role of bench players).

The concern I feel regarding the Suns has nothing to do with W/L ratio. Instead, it dwells in the 'nagging notion' that we are headed down a similar road expected different results. But I hope we don't fall prey to the false idea that we are just like the San Antonio Spurs - the Defending Champions.

BTW, before anyone points this out, the Mavericks are struggling as well; and, like the Suns, they are unproven.

 

[ebow]

I agree with everything you're saying, but the Spurs are so damn annoying and boring. If we continue developing a style that runs through Amare, I think we might have a chance. Obviously we need to develop our bench and defense. I have seen the suns play good defense, but it's very sporadic. We need to switch up more. We can play a decent zone defense, but we play it too long and teams figure it out.

 

[nowagimp]

Give it a rest guys, the players are, just turn it off till it matters. The celtics lose to crappy teams(the wiz 2x, bobcats), as do the spurs(griz, kings) as do the mavs(kings, wiz, bucks), as do the pistons(knicks, kings, bulls 2x), as do the suns(clips, twolves, heat). The NBA season is a joke, plenty of meaningless games to go around. 82 games is too many to be played at a high level. The NBA and david stern would have 120 games with back to back to back games if they thought they could(they still may). The players are paid very well, and the majority of them take quite a few nights off, so should you. I turned last nights game off when it became obvious that the suns defense was a step late on every play and they shot like masons. The only positive is that I prevented myself from wasting 1 hour of time watching a 38 year old out quick all those young guys in a lousy game. And I didnt have to wonder why DA(*******) would only go 7 deep when 5 of them were napping.

 

[Rbutters91]

I agree with everything you're saying, but the Spurs are so damn annoying and boring.

Yeah, but it gets them championships. Can't complain with the results.

 

[Griffin]

Yeah, but it gets them championships. Can't complain with the results.

So what's more important: looking forward to and being able to enjoy watching just about every game, regular season and playoffs, or, having "your" team win a championship even though you've long lost interest in their games due to their style and/or particular players/tactics they employ?

The point is, I want to be able to enjoy watching my team play. The championship is the ultimate goal, but how you get there is just as important to me. But I know a lot of people will probably see it differently.

 

[Ninjafish]

So what's more important: looking forward to and being able to enjoy watching just about every game, regular season and playoffs, or, having "your" team win a championship even though you've long lost interest in their games due to their style and/or particular players/tactics they employ?

The point is, I want to be able to enjoy watching my team play. The championship is the ultimate goal, but how you get there is just as important to me. But I know a lot of people will probably see it differently.

I agree with you. And what happened to the feeling that the Suns were screwed last year? If in fact the Suns had a good chance of beating the Spurs last year and they didn't get a fair chance at it, then all this talk of possibly becoming like the Spurs is pretty insane, isn't it?

 

[dodie53]

we're the Phoenix Suns.

 

[HooverDam]

So what's more important: looking forward to and being able to enjoy watching just about every game, regular season and playoffs, or, having "your" team win a championship even though you've long lost interest in their games due to their style and/or particular players/tactics they employ?

The point is, I want to be able to enjoy watching my team play. The championship is the ultimate goal, but how you get there is just as important to me. But I know a lot of people will probably see it differently.

Agreed 100%. The journey is just as important, if not more-so, than the destination. Would I love the Suns to win the title? Of course, I'd probably cry like a baby. But if it mean scoring 75 points a night, slowing the pace to a grind, and playing 'Riley Ball,' I'll pass thanks. Basketball is an uptempo, elegant, acrobatic game, I hate teams who try to turn it into football.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Agreed 100%. The journey is just as important, if not more-so, than the destination. Would I love the Suns to win the title? Of course, I'd probably cry like a baby. But if it mean scoring 75 points a night, slowing the pace to a grind, and playing 'Riley Ball,' I'll pass thanks. Basketball is an uptempo, elegant, acrobatic game, I hate teams who try to turn it into football.

Umm, then where's your complaints about Herb Sendek's snoozefests?

The ONLY thing that matters in any competitive sport is winning. If the Suns organization values entertaining style of play over getting to the top of the mountain then tell me now and I'll find somebody else to cheer for.

 

[HooverDam]

Umm, then where's your complaints about Herb Sendek's snoozefests?

The ONLY thing that matters in any competitive sport is winning. If the Suns organization values entertaining style of play over getting to the top of the mountain then tell me now and I'll find somebody else to cheer for.

I don't find Herbs offense to be boring at all. There's a lot of movement, back screens, et cetera. It was boring last year, but not at all this year.

But hey, if you think James Harden is boring, you're beyond trying to reason with.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

What was the score after regulation last week? 55-55? Yeah, that was a real barn-burner. Herb's teams have always grinded it out and his teams always play physical D or "Riley Ball" as you call it even back to NC State. And no, I don't think Harden is boring because he's a great player. All great players are entertaining and that includes Duncan, Manu, and Tony Parker. Winning championships is pretty entertaining as well, I was just as happy with the pitching and defense DBacks taking it all in 2001 as I would've been if they scored fifteen runs per game.

 

[HooverDam]

^I think Parker especially is a ton of fun to watch, and Ginobili is on offense (though his constant flopping and whining detract from it). The thing I don't like about the Spurs is that about half their game plan (which works, so I dont fault them for doing it) is to have everyone stand around the perimeter, pass it into Duncan, and let him hit a bank shot.

Herbs teams aren't high scoring, but I don't necessarily think high scoring=entertaining. There's a difference between control the tempo and just turning the game into a fouling, thug fest.

For instance, back in the pre shot clock days, would you have liked to have been a fan of a team playing against George Mikan and the Lakers? I wouldn't have. Sure your team may have won 10-8 by playing keep away for 48 minutes, but who cares?

I guess what I'm trying to get at is, there's a balance between winning and being fun to watch. I think you can do both, and if I ran a team, thats what I would strive for and its what I think the Suns strive for and for the most part do a good job of (they do have one of the top 5 all time winning percentages for a NBA team, even though they've fallen short of the ultimate goal).

 

[TheHopToad]

So what's more important: looking forward to and being able to enjoy watching just about every game, regular season and playoffs, or, having "your" team win a championship even though you've long lost interest in their games due to their style and/or particular players/tactics they employ?

The point is, I want to be able to enjoy watching my team play. The championship is the ultimate goal, but how you get there is just as important to me. But I know a lot of people will probably see it differently.

I have to agree with this completely. The whole point of being a fan is being entertained by your team and enjoying them play. If they resort to a slowdown, low-scoring, boring style of play, and it's not entertaining and exciting for me to watch, then I probably won't watch and thus I'm no longer much of a fan. Then it becomes just like hockey or soccer. I could care less about how the Coyotes are doing and if they won the NHL Championship, I wouldn't care.

The ONLY thing that matters in any competitive sport is winning. If the Suns organization values entertaining style of play over getting to the top of the mountain then tell me now and I'll find somebody else to cheer for.

This is true if you are a player, coach, or an employee of the organization. As a fan, I want to be entertained and have excitement and flash to cheer for. To me it's not only about winning, but how you win. I could never be a fan of the Spurs or Pistons, I just don't have the time or patience. Those teams don't give you goosebumps.

 

[TucsonDevil]

I think those that have stated "I would rather be entertained than playing boring championship basketball" have been a Suns fan for too long. Possibly a bit 'snake-bitten', don't ya think?

Seriously, I have been 'entertained' since the early 80s and Kyle Macy... I want a championship. Period.

 

[mojorizen7]

So what's more important: looking forward to and being able to enjoy watching just about every game, regular season and playoffs, or, having "your" team win a championship even though you've long lost interest in their games due to their style and/or particular players/tactics they employ?

The point is, I want to be able to enjoy watching my team play. The championship is the ultimate goal, but how you get there is just as important to me. But I know a lot of people will probably see it differently.

Agreed 100%. The journey is just as important, if not more-so, than the destination. Would I love the Suns to win the title? Of course, I'd probably cry like a baby. But if it mean scoring 75 points a night, slowing the pace to a grind, and playing 'Riley Ball,' I'll pass thanks. Basketball is an uptempo, elegant, acrobatic game, I hate teams who try to turn it into football.

Wow. I realize we're all fans here but....wow.
So it's better to lose pretty
than winning it all ugly?
You'd rather(if given the choice) to continue to watch 3-ring circus style basketball for 82 games a year without a championship ,rather than play a more traditional style of basketball that involves a more grind it out style that would win a title?
Are you sure you guys aren't Mike & Dan D'Antoni disguised as SUNS fans?
Please explain and i'm sorry in advance if i've misinterpreted.

 

[HooverDam]

Wow. I realize we're all fans here but....wow.
So it's better to lose pretty
than winning it all ugly?
You'd rather(if given the choice) to continue to watch 3-ring circus style basketball for 82 games a year without a championship ,rather than play a more traditional style of basketball that involves a more grind it out style that would win a title?
Are you sure you guys aren't Mike & Dan D'Antoni disguised as SUNS fans?
Please explain and i'm sorry in advance if i've misinterpreted.

Like I said, you can be entertaining and be a winner in my opinion. Don't agree? Well then I point you to the Lakers and Celtics of the 80s and the Bulls of the 90s.

Yes, I want to win, but I want to have fun doing it, and cheer for a team with good guys on it. I don't want thug idiots like Robert Horry, Ron Artest, Latrell Sprewell, etc on my team. I don't want a team that wins by beating up their opponent.

I think a lot of Suns fans are so sick of coming close, but not quite (which is understandable) they've turned into something like pre World Series Red Sox fans. Super annoying, completely irrational, always thinking everything will turn out for the worst, et cetera.

I personally believe D'Antoni's system can win a NBA title, but I realize the thing more important than anything is the talent. The most talented team almost always wins in the NBA. If the Suns stay healthy/non suspended, they're one of the most talented teams in the league and I like their chances.

 

[Griffin]

Wow. I realize we're all fans here but....wow.
So it's better to lose pretty
than winning it all ugly?
You'd rather(if given the choice) to continue to watch 3-ring circus style basketball for 82 games a year without a championship ,rather than play a more traditional style of basketball that involves a more grind it out style that would win a title?
Are you sure you guys aren't Mike & Dan D'Antoni disguised as SUNS fans?
Please explain and i'm sorry in advance if i've misinterpreted.

You are making a false assumption that you can only have one or the other. I don't believe that playing traditional Spurs-type basketball is the only way to win a championship. I also believe that the Suns can win a championship playing their current style. I guess that is where we disagree.

 

[mojorizen7]

You are making a false assumption that you can only have one or the other. I don't believe that playing traditional Spurs-type basketball is the only way to win a championship. I also believe that the Suns can win a championship playing their current style. I guess that is where we disagree.

Fair enough Griff. We definately differ there.

 

[mojorizen7]

Like I said, you can be entertaining and be a winner in my opinion. Don't agree? Well then I point you to the Lakers and Celtics of the 80s and the Bulls of the 90s.

Yes, I want to win, but I want to have fun doing it, and cheer for a team with good guys on it. I don't want thug idiots like Robert Horry, Ron Artest, Latrell Sprewell, etc on my team. I don't want a team that wins by beating up their opponent.

I think a lot of Suns fans are so sick of coming close, but not quite (which is understandable) they've turned into something like pre World Series Red Sox fans. Super annoying, completely irrational, always thinking everything will turn out for the worst, et cetera.

I personally believe D'Antoni's system can win a NBA title, but I realize the thing more important than anything is the talent. The most talented team almost always wins in the NBA. If the Suns stay healthy/non suspended, they're one of the most talented teams in the league and I like their chances.

We both know we disagree on this style of basketball being able to get it done so no need to go there. I can respect that.
The teams you mentioned were certainly entertaining no doubt. If you're simply comparing those teams to the current SUNS teams based on being entertaining, you'd be right. As well as being talented.
Thats where the comparisons end.
Those teams played defense night in & out,they could rebound w/the best of them, they had toughness,they had enforcers & guys that were not only talented,but wouldn't take $h!t from anybody when challenged physically & mentally.
And those teams weren't locked in to being entertaining for the sake of trying to win games by simply outscoring everybody. The Lakers could beat you in both tempos...as could M.J.'s Bulls.

The most talented team almost always wins in the NBA.

So how have the SPURS attained their dynasty? IMO the SUNS & DALLAS have had better talent from top to bottom the last 4 years.
I've got to disagree with you there to a point.
I believe in order to win a title('s) you've got to have
1. Talent
2. Desire
3. A committment to defense
4. Luck

The SUNS...
1. Yes
2. Not sure anymore
3. No
4. Not so much.

 

[TheHopToad]

You'd rather(if given the choice) to continue to watch 3-ring circus style basketball for 82 games a year without a championship ,rather than play a more traditional style of basketball that involves a more grind it out style that would win a title?

The operative phrase here to me is "continue to watch". If our team played as boring as San Antonio, then no, I would not continue to watch. I would probably skip the regular season altogether and do something fun with my life. I would watch the finals and I would be happy that we won a ring, but I would turn into a fair weather, bandwagon fan.

This isn't the NFL, I'm not committed unconditionally. Since the NBA plays so many games, they have to make it fun and thrilling to keep my attention for 2½ hours, 82 times a year. Otherwise, it's just like baseball, I'll tune in periodically and for the World Series.

 

[HooverDam]

Those teams played defense night in & out,they could rebound w/the best of them, they had toughness,they had enforcers & guys that were not only talented,but wouldn't take $h!t from anybody when challenged physically & mentally.

I agree, I think for the Suns to take it to the next level, Amare is going to have to up his game. He seems to have regressed defensively. He'll need to dramatically improve on defense (or at least show more consistent effort). Right now, I think thats the biggest thing killing the Suns, the fact that every run of the mill big man is abusing Amare.

So how have the SPURS attained their dynasty? IMO the SUNS & DALLAS have had better talent from top to bottom the last 4 years.

The Spurs have the #1 Power Forward to ever play the game by many estimations, you can't under rate that. Anytime you have one of the top 1 or 2 guys ever at a position, thats got to be weighed heavily into how talented you are. The Spurs have an All Time great (I'm talking perhaps one of the top 10 players ever) and 2 All Star/near All Star type players. Plus their complimentary pieces are veterans who are quite good, Barry, Finley, etc.

4. Luck

There's no such thing as luck. Luck is just probability taken personally

 

[BC867]

So it's better to lose pretty than winning it all ugly?
You'd rather(if given the choice) to continue to watch 3-ring circus style basketball for 82 games a year without a championship ,rather than play a more traditional style of basketball that involves a more grind it out style that would win a title?

Are you sure you guys aren't Mike & Dan D'Antoni disguised as SUNS fans?

Ironically, this didn't start with Sarver, Kerr and D'Antoni. It began with Jerry Colangelo and John MacLeod.

A 212 lb. Center with the skinniest arms on the court (Alvan Adams).

Power Forwards neutralized by having to cover Center (Maurice Lucas).

Playing too many minutes without a Point Guard (Paul Westphal and Don Buse as Guards).

Players playing out of position (Dennis Johnson, the best defensive Guard in the league, covering Power Forward during the playoffs).

In the entire history of the Suns, they have moved a player from a heavier position to a lighter one just once -- when Walter Davis moved from Small Forward to 2-Guard, to make room for Larry Nance.

Every other position move the Suns have ever made involved moving a light guy to a heavier position. Power Forwards to Center. Small Forwards to Power Forward. 3-Guard lineups. Tweeners at Forward. Tweeners at 2-Guard.

For some insane reason, this is the Suns legacy, no matter who the owner, GM and Head Coach are.

 

[CaptainInsano]

4. Luck

4. Not so much.

Talk about understatement of the decade!

 

[TheHopToad]

Ironically, this didn't start with Sarver, Kerr and D'Antoni. It began with Jerry Colangelo

Yep, he should have called tails. Kareem would have brought us a championship.

 

[mojorizen7]

Yep, he should have called tails. Kareem would have brought us a championship.

Or two, or three....etc....