We are not San Antonio...

[Maligzar]

I think those that have stated "I would rather be entertained than playing boring championship basketball" have been a Suns fan for too long. Possibly a bit 'snake-bitten', don't ya think?

Seriously, I have been 'entertained' since the early 80s and Kyle Macy... I want a championship. Period.

That just sounds absurd. You don't want to be entertained, you want a championship? Why? So you can... walk around and say "hey my team got a championship!" That's ridiculous.

I think those who don't appreciate the Suns have maybe been Suns fans for too long and have no clue what it might be like to root for teams stuck in medocrisy.

TNT and the NBA would love this post though, it's got more melo-drama going on than a romance novel.

 

[TucsonDevil]

That just sounds absurd. You don't want to be entertained, you want a championship? Why? So you can... walk around and say "hey my team got a championship!" That's ridiculous.

... yeah, that is exactly what I want. Why do you find that ridiculous? Don't you want to be a winner? Don't you desire success in everything you do? When you go to work everyday, don't you try and outperform the competition? your colleagues? Don't you try to date the hottest girl in school? Don't you try and get the highest grade in the class? Don't you try to maximize your income so you can provide the very best for your wife and kids?

Just because we fail at things and come up short at times, doesn't mean we have to accept failure as a way of life. I don't understand your perspective on this, it puzzles me. I want the Suns to win Championships. THAT is entertainment!

 

[mojorizen7]

Analogy.
It's like owning the very best looking,sounding,smelling,car in the race.....although it's not as fast and well-driven as a few of the other cars, you're satisfied with coming in 2nd,or 3rd as long as it's easy on the eyes & gets alot of attention & praise...until the race is over.
Yuck.

 

[Lorenzo]

I wouldn't worry so much about the suns/spurs right now. playoffs are all that matters.......provided you can get there. the suns will be there.
everyone last year spent all season comparing dallas and phoenix(media and fans) and the two didn't even play each other. The WC is jam packed and no one knows what will happen come playoff time.
the spurs haven't won back to back yet. and they aren't any younger or better IMO........compared to last year. I don't think they will win it all this year......I think dallas, phoenix, or another strong team can beat them in the playoffs. but they are the only proven champion in the WC......so I still have respect for that team.

 

[TheHopToad]

I never thought I'd say this, but I think this year is ripe for the Eastern Conference (Celtics) to win the title. It's looking like the west teams may beat each other up and feature some long, exhausitng series. Boston can almost sweep their way to the finals and be rested and ready for a tired west champion.

 

[BC867]

I never thought I'd say this, but I think this year is ripe for the Eastern Conference (Celtics) to win the title. It's looking like the west teams may beat each other up and feature some long, exhausitng series. Boston can almost sweep their way to the finals and be rested and ready for a tired west champion.

KG has made the difference. The Suns should have done whatever it took -- whatever -- to bring Kevin Garnett to the desert to play alongside Amare.

Then you'd be saying that about us.

 

[Atescoop]

but the Spurs are so damn annoying and boring

May just not as exciting, but you know the old saying: If its not broke... It is just not that easy to shake everything up and be better than the suns. As important as winning is, we all here ain´t gettin no rings. Let´s face it. When the season is over, we nonparaplegics go about our business. It is however important to make the finals. I can do without the ejaculation, as long as I´m not stuck on first base.
Btw, nobody has the fxxxxx right to tell anyone they´ve been a fan too long.

I want to have fun doing it, and cheer for a team with good guys on it. I don't want thug idiots like Robert Horry, Ron Artest, Latrell Sprewell, etc on my team. I don't want a team that wins by beating up their opponent.

Good point. I also want to like the players on a personal level. Look at this unselfish team. Nash->needs no intro; Bell->articulate,smart; LB->flat out nice; Diaw->another International; The bench->guys ya can really rout for. Hard to put in words, but this group is likeable. For Arizoniens and diehard fans perhaps not so important. Whoever uses the word "we" and "us" should also remember what the prase "ball club" used to mean. But now lots money is involved. The commercial aspect makes winning more important than the human aspect. Different Strokes for different folks.

We also should like WATCHING defense. That is half the game (more in the Suns case). Otherwise we´d be hypocrites. All this talk about lack of will therein. So it is frustrating to see less then 5 guys putting it all on the line playing Tenacious D.
In a way, I rout for this style. I like to see these highly paid athletes have to run there butts up and down the court. It is after all an experiment and that makes it interesting. If they do not make it uninjured to the finals then maybe DA should go coach in Europe.

 

[Ronin]

We have to violate our own edict about never dropping these Spurs below No. 5. The defending champs left us with zero choice by losing their last seven games -- yes, seven -- against teams with winning records.

Interesting note from Marc Stein..

 

[green machine]

KG has made the difference. The Suns should have done whatever it took -- whatever -- to bring Kevin Garnett to the desert to play alongside Amare.

Then you'd be saying that about us.

You don't think the Suns did everything they could to land KG without giving up Amare?

 

[cly2tw]

You don't think the Suns did everything they could to land KG without giving up Amare?

Actually, they even considered to trade Amare in that scenario. But apparently they realized that KG for Amare straight up weren't gonna get us to the promised land, but other teams wouldn't want to give us enough to make sense for us.

 

[BC867]

You don't think the Suns did everything they could to land KG without giving up Amare?

Who's to know for sure. Maybe they should have given Marion a sedative and a bowl of New England clam chowder.

 

[Maligzar]

... yeah, that is exactly what I want. Why do you find that ridiculous? Don't you want to be a winner? Don't you desire success in everything you do? When you go to work everyday, don't you try and outperform the competition? your colleagues? Don't you try to date the hottest girl in school? Don't you try and get the highest grade in the class? Don't you try to maximize your income so you can provide the very best for your wife and kids?

Just because we fail at things and come up short at times, doesn't mean we have to accept failure as a way of life. I don't understand your perspective on this, it puzzles me. I want the Suns to win Championships. THAT is entertainment!

You are not a part of the Phoenix Suns.

let that sink in.

You are not a part of the Phoenix Suns.

say it out loud.

You are not a part of the Phoenix Suns.

If the Phoenix Suns win a championship or not has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with the fans. I can appreciate a player wanting to win a Championship and giving up things like salary, playing time etc. in order to accomplish that goal. I can not for the life of me understand fans that would be OK with not watching half the games, or falling asleep during the games, but at the end of the day being able to walk around town with a championsip t-shirt; beating their chest and shouting "WE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP WE'RE CHAMPIONS" while listening to Queen.

This has nothing to do with what goes on in my life. I am not a Phoenix Sun. The Suns winning or losing isn't even the slightest reflection on my success in life. This doesn't make me any less competetive than you, it doesn't make me any less of a fan, and certainly doesn't mean that in the end I don't really want for the Suns to win a title.

It's just a little something called perspective.

I wonder how many of the "I want a championship nothing else matters" crowd actually watch all the games, and more so actually attend the games.

 

[nowagimp]

You are not a part of the Phoenix Suns.

I can not for the life of me understand fans that would be OK with not watching half the games, or falling asleep during the games, but at the end of the day being able to walk around town with a championsip t-shirt; beating their chest and shouting "WE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP WE'RE CHAMPIONS" while listening to Queen.

Yeah, that sounds like a bandwagon jumper, there are plenty of those, like cowboy fans from new jersey. Frankly, if I dont enjoy the basketball, I dont care much if my team is the champion. I do love suns basketball. When its running right, the ball movement is superb, makes it a much better game. These suns remind me of the showtime lakers in their unselfishness, and I enjoy that aspect of basketball. Those lakers had a ton of weapons, not a "big three" and a bunch of scrubs like the spurs. Ball movement is also what makes the current "triangle lakers" fun to watch, not kobe jackling jumpers or going one-on-one every play.

 

[mojorizen7]

Personally(and i believe i'm not alone here) i can appreciate and enjoy a 90-85 defensive gem of a game. Furthermore, i can also appreciate a team that wins games with their defense & not neccessarily their jump shot.
I'm not really sure what point you were trying to get across Maligzar.

 

[TucsonDevil]

You are not a part of the Phoenix Suns.

let that sink in.

You are not a part of the Phoenix Suns.

say it out loud.

You are not a part of the Phoenix Suns.

If the Phoenix Suns win a championship or not has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with the fans.

You are a real 'kill-joy'. I guess by that logic, only those receiving a paycheck from a sports franchise should bother with any of it. So, unless you have graduated from 'X' University, you can not cheer for their teams to win. Also, unless you are a paying season ticket holder, you are not allowed to celebrate a team winning a championship.

OK, thanks for the input.


Dear Mods... let me know how much I need to pay to this site to continue to use its services. Apparently, I do not belong here unless I contribute significant $$. Also, you might also choose to delete all of my posts in the forums, except for those found in the ASU and UofA sections (since I actually have degrees from both schools, and thus an invested member of both organizations). I also trust you will delete any and all threads/posts authored by individuals NOT officially associated with the organizations of the Cardinals, Suns, D-Backs, Coyotes, etc. Also, please verify those rooting for ASU/UofA actually have attended the schools and earned degrees, otherwise they have no business forming opinions and such.

 

[BC867]

If the Phoenix Suns win a championship or not has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with the fans.

That's not true. For two reasons.

Speaking for myself, I've been a Suns fan since 1970, when I first visited the Valley and decided this is where I wanted to spend the rest of my life.

That's 37 years of rooting for the Suns. The highs, the lows and everything in between.

This metropolitan area, this state and everything to do with it is special to me.

Secondly, professional sports serves three functions, as do movies and plays, concerts and CD's.

-- It is an art.

-- It is a form of entertainment.

-- It is a business.

It most certainly depends upon its fans. Those who provide revenue directly by attending games. And those who provide it indirectly by watching the sponsors' commercials on TV.

As I've mentioned once in awhile, "fan" is short for "fanatic'.

So if you think, "If the Phoenix Suns win a championship or not has nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with the fans.", you're really missing what it's all about.

 

[elindholm]

I think what TucsonDevil means is that watching the Suns win four games during the NBA finals would be, by itself, more enjoyable than watching them win 60 regular-season games. At least, that's my feeling about it.

Anyone remember KJJK? He was pretty dour on here for years, but then the Diamondbacks won the World Series. He wrote a long post about how he was delirious with joy, scampering around on the floor like a seven-year-old, years upon years of frustration evaporating in an instant. All of his years following Arizona sports teams had finally paid off.

And then he was gone. I never saw him post again. He got what he wanted out of being a fan, he was satisfied, and he moved on with his life.

If I had to guess, I'd say TucsonDevil can relate to that pretty well, but that many of the rest of you can't. That's fine, but I sure know which camp I'm in.

 

[mojorizen7]

I think what TucsonDevil means is that watching the Suns win four games during the NBA finals would be, by itself, more enjoyable than watching them win 60 regular-season games. At least, that's my feeling about it.

Anyone remember KJJK? He was pretty dour on here for years, but then the Diamondbacks won the World Series. He wrote a long post about how he was delirious with joy, scampering around on the floor like a seven-year-old, years upon years of frustration evaporating in an instant. All of his years following Arizona sports teams had finally paid off.

And then he was gone. I never saw him post again. He got what he wanted out of being a fan, he was satisfied, and he moved on with his life.

If I had to guess, I'd say TucsonDevil can relate to that pretty well, but that many of the rest of you can't. That's fine, but I sure know which camp I'm in.

Well said.

 

[Lorenzo]

the fans make the game what it is today. without fans who would be there cheering? why would there be a victory song or parade? It's all about the fans. that's why there are forums like this.
I know losing in the playoffs is tough. I was very upset when the mavs lost in the finals. I almost had a heart attack when the mavs gave up a 20 point lead in a game 7 vs the spurs, but won in OT. those times are tough. and the suns have always been good and they seem to be in that boat year after year. It's tough falling short. When the mavs lose in the playoffs I always think back to the 90's when they struggled to win 15 games and that makes me feel better. But if this core of mavs players never win a title....it will be very disappointing. I'm sure you guys feel the same way about your suns.

 

[elindholm]

Well that's one of the more creative troll introductions we've been treated to.

 

[ambchang_]

Like I said, you can be entertaining and be a winner in my opinion. Don't agree? Well then I point you to the Lakers and Celtics of the 80s and the Bulls of the 90s.

Yes, I want to win, but I want to have fun doing it, and cheer for a team with good guys on it. I don't want thug idiots like Robert Horry, Ron Artest, Latrell Sprewell, etc on my team. I don't want a team that wins by beating up their opponent.

The part(s) I couldn't understand is since when is Robert Horry a thug idiot? He had his run ins with Danny Ainge, he hard fouled Steve Nash once, and that makes him a thug? Would Raja Bell clotheslining Kobe Bryant constitute as being a thug (Perhaps more so)?

And you seem to have no problems with the Celtics of the 80s, when guys like Kevin McHale takes Kurt Rambis out in midair, Bird and Ainge being known for dirty players, as well as Laker players who are basically enforcers and nothing else. Then the Bulls with their infamous 73-78 lose to the Jazz in Game 4 of the 1997 finals. In fact, in that whole series, only ONE team scored more than 100 points once in 6 games. Or the 96-54 win over the Jazz in 1998? Those were ugly ugly games, certainly on par with any playoff games that we have seen since or before, including all those Knicks games, and yet you felt they were entertaining?

 

[nowagimp]

The part(s) I couldn't understand is since when is Robert Horry a thug idiot? He had his run ins with Danny Ainge, he hard fouled Steve Nash once, and that makes him a thug? Would Raja Bell clotheslining Kobe Bryant constitute as being a thug (Perhaps more so)?

And you seem to have no problems with the Celtics of the 80s, when guys like Kevin McHale takes Kurt Rambis out in midair, Bird and Ainge being known for dirty players, as well as Laker players who are basically enforcers and nothing else. Then the Bulls with their infamous 73-78 lose to the Jazz in Game 4 of the 1997 finals. In fact, in that whole series, only ONE team scored more than 100 points once in 6 games. Or the 96-54 win over the Jazz in 1998? Those were ugly ugly games, certainly on par with any playoff games that we have seen since or before, including all those Knicks games, and yet you felt they were entertaining?

Let me see "showtime laker thugs". Like cooper(no), scott(no), magic(no), jabbar(no), worthy(no), green(no), rambis(no), wilks, (no). Damn all those guys were skill players, where are the thugs? Sorry, but it seems there were very few minutes left for any thugs. McHale was a skill player and if he was too physical on a play, he would be vulnerable on offense and dealt with later(unlike bowen). Taking out Kurt Rambis in "mid air", meaning a 9" jump, right? You do remember that fighting didnt cause 15 game suspensions(or maybe not any) back then, right? The threat of a fight was what limited the thugging, that is until thugs became popular on the bad boys, and then the riley knicks, and suspensions became the rule. The bulls series against the jazz in '98 was terrible, MJ shot 35%FG's and pushed off on the game(and series) winner, terrible basketball. The league never recovered from "mug-with-a-thug" after the riley knicks. The grabbing and holding today almost looks like an orgy compared with showtime ball. Guys throw elbows(kobe), even punch each other in the nuts for revenge, the threat of suspension just intensifies the pent up rage, doesnt stop it. I dont ever recall a "brawl at the palace" type melee before the suspension policy. When guys get away with lots of cheap shots, the game becomes ABOUT cheap shots or flopping.

 

[Lorenzo]

Well that's one of the more creative troll introductions we've been treated to.

intro? I've been here a while. and so you know I don't blog on a mavs forum. so I'm not technically a troll. I also live in glendale. so i am a proud north texan living in the valley.

 

[mojorizen7]

At what point does a physical-hard nosed-competitor become a thug?
I agree that nobody from the showtime Lakers were thugs however, if they felt they were being challenged physically they'd respond physically as well as mentally. Thats a part of being a champion in my book.
While the SUNS are "thugless"(which is a good thing) they're also IMO short a couple guys that know how to respond to being challenged physically & mentally(ie;SPURS). Are you a thug if you consistently give (legal)hard fouls to guys coming down the lane or in the clear for a layup? I don't think so. Aside from Raja do we have that type of guy here? I say we don't.
S.A. does.
Detroit does.
Hell even the Mavs have more than we do. Erik Dampier may be a stiff of an NBA player but he does not give up easy layups.
Thats my definition of toughness. There's nothing thuggish about it.
I wouldn't have called R.Horry a thug in his heyday with the ROCKETS, but at this point in his career with little to no skills left he seems to have taken on that role at times(the thug). There's no need for that crap.
IMO B.Bowen may be dirty but he's not a thug. We could use a Bowen here.
Again...none of this is really as relevant or as important until playoff time but the issue of the fine line between being a tough player & a thug gets misconstrued alot IMO.

 

[green machine]

At what point does a physical-hard nosed-competitor become a thug?
I agree that nobody from the showtime Lakers were thugs however, if they felt they were being challenged physically they'd respond physically as well as mentally. Thats a part of being a champion in my book.
While the SUNS are "thugless"(which is a good thing) they're also IMO short a couple guys that know how to respond to being challenged physically & mentally(ie;SPURS). Are you a thug if you consistently give (legal)hard fouls to guys coming down the lane or in the clear for a layup? I don't think so. Aside from Raja do we have that type of guy here? I say we don't.
S.A. does.
Detroit does.
Hell even the Mavs have more than we do. Erik Dampier may be a stiff of an NBA player but he does not give up easy layups.
Thats my definition of toughness. There's nothing thuggish about it.
I wouldn't have called R.Horry a thug in his heyday with the ROCKETS, but at this point in his career with little to no skills left he seems to have taken on that role at times(the thug). There's no need for that crap.
IMO B.Bowen may be dirty but he's not a thug. We could use a Bowen here.
Again...none of this is really as relevant or as important until playoff time but the issue of the fine line between being a tough player & a thug gets misconstrued alot IMO.

I think the main issue with the layup thing is the Suns style forces them to do everything they can to not foul, so as to keep the game moving at a quick pace. You foul, you slow the game down.

Whether or not this is a good strategy really is up for debate, but I imagine the Suns would be more apt to give a hard foul if their style of play didn't prevent it.