Week 4 Arizona Cardinals off season thread. 1/30/23-2/5/23

[ajcardfan]

He is trying to sell a product so this may just be part of the sales pitch. Hope I'm wrong.

I don't recall him doing something similar for Houston. But I could be wrong.

 

[BritCard]

*shrug* Sorry, you're just off the deep end, man. There's no talking to you on this topic. You've got your rose colored glasses on, and nobody's getting them off. Enjoy being a company man.

You got nothing except fan invented rumors and a massive pile of resentment.

Mike is an average NFL owner. They all think their crap don't stink. They all think they are gods gift to industry. They mostly all have large periods of sucking until they find a HC/QB combo that works.

I'm not even defending him. Just trying to fight back against the never ending BS narratives some fans invent around here. "Mike is going to hire Vance as HC". "Mike is going to force Vance on the new HC". Every time something happens there is a new and completely fabricated negative narrative on what Mike is doing or intending.

Y'all must tell Mike B stories around the campfire.

I haven't been here long as long as most and I've only been a Cards far around 10 years, but this fan base needs to stop eating it's young. Manufacturered negativity is a self fulfilling cycle.

 

[PACardsFan]

You got nothing except fan invented rumors and a massive pile of resentment.

Mike is an average NFL owner. They all think their crap don't stink. They all think they are gods gift to industry. They mostly all have large periods of sucking until they find a HC/QB combo that works.

I'm not even defending him. Just trying to fight back against the never ending BS narratives some fans invent around here. "Mike is going to hire Vance as HC". "Mike is going to force Vance on the new HC". Every time something happens there is a new and completely fabricated negative narrative on what Mike is doing or intending.

Y'all must tell Mike B stories around the campfire.

I haven't been here long as long as most and I've only been a Cards far around 10 years, but this fan base needs to stop eating it's young. Manufacturered negativity is a self fulfilling cycle.

I’m not here to fight Stout’s battles, but I find it comical that you will come to this board almost daily to berate a 25 year old QB, who’s had 3 out of 4 solid seasons with a crap sandwich being fed to him the entire time, and yet you make a comment about this fan base needing to stop eating its young?? I’ve been around 60 years watching the Bidwills. Trust me when I say it’s not manufactured negativity. I spent most of my youth crying myself to sleep because of the crap that BB pulled. Granted, Michael isn’t as bad as his father, but he’s a meddler like his father, and until he actually turns this franchise around, he’s more at fault than any of his GM’s, coaches or players. I’m so happy that he went outside to hire MO & I hope that’s a start for real change. We’ll see.

 

[BritCard]

I’m not here to fight Stout’s battles, but I find it comical that you will come to this board almost daily to berate a 25 year old QB, who’s had 3 out of 4 solid seasons with a crap sandwich being fed to him the entire time, and yet you make a comment about this fan base needing to stop eating its young?? I’ve been around 60 years watching the Bidwills. Trust me when I say it’s not manufactured negativity. I spent most of my youth crying myself to sleep because of the crap that BB pulled. Granted, Michael isn’t as bad as his father, but he’s a meddler like his father, and until he actually turns this franchise around, he’s more at fault than any of his GM’s, coaches or players. I’m so happy that he went outside to hire MO & I hope that’s a start for real change. We’ll see.

I don't care what bad old Bill did. He's dead and buried. What does it achieve for fans want to that crap into the present continually for the rest of their days so they can flagellate themselves? Who cares if Bill didn't pay for Gatorade in 2004? Mike is not Bill. If Bill died and Mike bought the team as a new owner, if his surname wasn't Bidwill, would you still be dragging up all that crap?

Mike got the stadium done. He's put $100 more into improvements and $15m into facilities. He got the team to it's first ever Super Bowl. He's presided over the most winning period of football in Cardinals history. He's very clearly not his father for all his faults. So why keep hanging on to all the Bill bitterness?

We can all slate Mike for his own mistakes. Should have sacked Keim in 2018. Shouldn't have extended Keim and Kliff. Shouldn't have extended Kyler. But you can say many of the same things about most NFL owners. Many fans act like he's Bill reincarnated and still hold all that crap over him. It's nothing to do with him.

And Kyler deserves everything he gets. I praised him when he was good and I blame him when he sucks. Kyler, frankly, has brought it all on himself with his own behavior. How anyone can still defend him is beyond me.

And no, I'm not defending Mike. If you blamed Kyler for things that happened in 2017 I'd set that record straight too.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't care what bad old Bill did. He's dead and buried. What does it achieve for fans want to that crap into the present continually for the rest of their days so they can flagellate themselves? Who cares if Bill didn't pay for Gatorade in 2004? Mike is not Bill. If Bill died and Mike bought the team as a new owner, if his surname wasn't Bidwill, would you still be dragging up all that crap?

Mike got the stadium done. He's put $100 more into improvements and $15m into facilities. He got the team to it's first ever Super Bowl. He's presided over the most winning period of football in Cardinals history. He's very clearly not his father for all his faults. So why keep hanging on to all the Bill bitterness?

We can all slate Mike for his own mistakes. Should have sacked Keim in 2018. Shouldn't have extended Keim and Kliff. Shouldn't have extended Kyler. But you can say many of the same things about most NFL owners. Many fans act like he's Bill reincarnated and still hold all that crap over him. It's nothing to do with him.

And Kyler deserves everything he gets. I praised him when he was good and I blame him when he sucks. Kyler, frankly, has brought it all on himself with his own behavior. How anyone can still defend him is beyond me.

And no, I'm not defending Mike. If you blamed Kyler for things that happened in 2017 I'd set that record straight too.

OK.

Mike Bidwill - President/Owner 2007 (Bill was technically the owner when the stadium was built)

125-131-2 record.
.484 winning %
5 seasons making the playoffs
5-5 in the playoffs
1 season making the Super Bowl
0-1 in the Super Bowl
6 of 16 seasons with a winning record

GMs
Rod Graves
Steve Keim
Monti

HCs
Ken Whisenhunt
Bruce Arians
Steve Wilks
Kliff Kingsbury
???

 

[Stout]

You got nothing except fan invented rumors and a massive pile of resentment.

Mike is an average NFL owner. They all think their crap don't stink. They all think they are gods gift to industry. They mostly all have large periods of sucking until they find a HC/QB combo that works.

I'm not even defending him. Just trying to fight back against the never ending BS narratives some fans invent around here. "Mike is going to hire Vance as HC". "Mike is going to force Vance on the new HC". Every time something happens there is a new and completely fabricated negative narrative on what Mike is doing or intending.

Y'all must tell Mike B stories around the campfire.

I haven't been here long as long as most and I've only been a Cards far around 10 years, but this fan base needs to stop eating it's young. Manufacturered negativity is a self fulfilling cycle.

Have fun with your cognitive dissonance.

 

[oaken1]

If it's a long history it should be REAL easy to list a few things.

one year free agent Joe Montana... THE fuggin GOAT himself...came to talk contracts... and when he got to the facility.
nobody had the keys to get in.
Joe went to KC

 

[oaken1]

My point is simple.

Fans have to stop tarring Mike with the Bill brush. Apart from it being completely pointless I don't believe it's fair.

Its like being angry at your wife for your exes issues.

I understand Bill was pure garbage, and Mike isn't perfect, but he's streets above Bill and really a completely average owner in regards to how involved he is.

I don't believe at all that potential coaches are saying they don't want to be here because of Bill sucked 17 years ago.

The only people still clinging to that are fans.

their point. other nfl owners, some coaches even...were around in theBowtie Bill days. so the stories still circulate even if we no longer make our guys buy their own shoes.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

one year free agent Joe Montana... THE fuggin GOAT himself...came to talk contracts... and when he got to the facility.
nobody had the keys to get in.
Joe went to KC

You are totally misremembering that. The Cardinals rolled out the red carpet for Joe, even placing billboards along the freeway from the airport to the team facilities...lol Joe was the 1st, in a fairly long line of players to completely tease the Cardinals and just use them for leverage.

 

[daves]

one year free agent Joe Montana... THE fuggin GOAT himself...came to talk contracts... and when he got to the facility.
nobody had the keys to get in.
Joe went to KC

Never heard that one! Got a link?!

 

[BritCard]

6 of 16 seasons with a winning record

Only 6 of 16 seasons with a losing record too. That's 10 seasons of 500 or better.

Up until 2018 when BA retired and Mahomes started for the Chiefs both Mike and Charles Hunt had been in charge for 10 years. Mike had the better record.

As I've said, the only difference between these guys are those that found their HC/QB combo and those that haven't.

 

[BritCard]

one year free agent Joe Montana... THE fuggin GOAT himself...came to talk contracts... and when he got to the facility.
nobody had the keys to get in.
Joe went to KC

More bogeyman stories. As far as I can tell this never happened.

The Peacock docuseries “Joe Montana: Cool Under Pressure,” recounted how two teams were eager to land the two-time MVP: the Chiefs and Cardinals, who at that time were called Phoenix.

Montana revealed he would have made more money with the Cardinals, and Phoenix was offering a more lucrative trade offer to the 49ers.
“It came down between Arizona and Kansas City,” Montana said in the show. ”Arizona was going to pay almost three times what I was going to make in Kansas City.”

In a Los Angeles Times story from April 2015, then-Cardinals owner Bill Bidwill had told a Phoenix radio station that a framework for a deal was in place.

“We’ve had a number of conversations with the 49ers concerning any potential compensation if Montana came to the Cardinals,” Bidwill said. “We’ve discussed a number of scenarios, and I believe we’ve come to some sort of agreement with them.”

One problem: Montana wanted to play for a winner, and the Chiefs were coming off a playoff appearance in the 1992 season when they finished with a 10-6 record.

The Cardinals had the worst record in the NFC at 4-12.

 

[TRW]

A.J. Green announced his retirement.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...gdhphdr&cvid=77a74e914cfd49e2a60b4c8f16c68abc

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You got nothing except fan invented rumors and a massive pile of resentment.

Mike is an average NFL owner. They all think their crap don't stink. They all think they are gods gift to industry. They mostly all have large periods of sucking until they find a HC/QB combo that works.

I'm not even defending him. Just trying to fight back against the never ending BS narratives some fans invent around here. "Mike is going to hire Vance as HC". "Mike is going to force Vance on the new HC". Every time something happens there is a new and completely fabricated negative narrative on what Mike is doing or intending.

Y'all must tell Mike B stories around the campfire.

I haven't been here long as long as most and I've only been a Cards far around 10 years, but this fan base needs to stop eating it's young. Manufacturered negativity is a self fulfilling cycle.

This is bunk. The fan base has next to zero impact on the team which actually manufactures the dung.

 

[Cheesebeef]

said it when he first showed up on the board and have only been proven more correct over time.

BritCard had a pathological inability to admit he’s wrong. About anything. Ever. But now he’s really reaching for the stars, hitting a sociopathic level that amuses me to no end.

Congrats on leveling up to heights heretofore never seen. I mean, you just ran up on Tango writing love letters to Jake Plummer and cruised by him at ludicrous speed. I look forward to your continued bashing of the fans and praising of an organization that apparently keeps getting left at the altar in their coaching search and even in their pursuit of a GM.

 

[BritCard]

said it when he first showed up on the board and have only been proven more correct over time.

BritCard had a pathological inability to admit he’s wrong. About anything. Ever. But now he’s really reaching for the stars, hitting a sociopathic level that amuses me to no end.

Congrats on leveling up to heights heretofore never seen. I mean, you just ran up on Tango writing love letters to Jake Plummer and cruised by him at ludicrous speed. I look forward to your continued bashing of the fans and praising of an organization that apparently keeps getting left at the altar in their coaching search and even in their pursuit of a GM.

I mean, it's not my fault your reading comprehension sucks.

I haven't praised the organisation in any way. What I said is that there is a section of fans, quite a lot, you included, who just make crap up. You have a pathological hatred for the Org that makes you just invent **** for kicks. That drags up things from 25 years ago to beat the Org in the present day. You revel is **** talking the team. Everything is bad until it isn't. There's no optimism. No leeway. Everything sucks until impirical evidence tells you otherwise.

You wanted Kliff gone and he's gone. Now you moan about how long the search is taking. If they did it quickly you would moan they rushed it. No matter who they hire I'm sure you will find something to moan about. Then you will moan about the DC hire, or the OC hire.

It's the absolute opposite of fandom. That's not to say you don't want them to win, but you sure revel in crap talking them as much as you can too.

Please, and I say this with all sincerity, put me on ignore if you don't like what I have to say. I could very much cope without your constantly negative opinion in my replies.

And that goes for everyone else. If you don't like what I have to say, don't listen to me. Ignore exists for a reason. I don't mind even a little bit. I'd rather that than ******* drive bying me all the time with "I wonder what @BritCard will say to this".

 

[Stout]

I mean, it's not my fault your reading comprehension sucks.

I haven't praised the organisation in any way. What I said is that there is a section of fans, quite a lot, you included, who just make crap up. You have a pathological hatred for the Org that makes you just invent **** for kicks. That drags up things from 25 years ago to beat the Org in the present day. You revel is **** talking the team. Everything is bad until it isn't. There's no optimism. No leeway. Everything sucks until impirical evidence tells you otherwise.

You wanted Kliff gone and he's gone. Now you moan about how long the search is taking. If they did it quickly you would moan they rushed it. No matter who they hire I'm sure you will find something to moan about. Then you will moan about the DC hire, or the OC hire.

It's the absolute opposite of fandom. That's not to say you don't want them to win, but you sure revel in crap talking them as much as you can too.

Please, and I say this with all sincerity, put me on ignore if you don't like what I have to say. I could very much cope without your constantly negative opinion in my replies.

And that goes for everyone else. If you don't like what I have to say, don't listen to me. Ignore exists for a reason. I don't mind even a little bit. I'd rather that than ******* drive bying me all the time with "I wonder what @BritCard will say to this".

 

[BritCard]

Sure dude. INVENTING negative **** constantly about the team you support is exactly what fandom is...

 

[Stout]

Sure dude. INVENTING negative **** constantly about the team you support is exactly what fandom is...

Hmm, telling other people that disagree with you that they invent stuff, never admitting you're wrong, constantly bloviating...what recent politician does that remind you of?

 

[BritCard]

Hmm, telling other people that disagree with you that they invent stuff, never admitting you're wrong, constantly bloviating...what recent politician does that remind you of?

Sure. I mean a day doesn't go by one of you doesn't invent something negative about this Org. There are 100 examples from the last day alone. You can scroll up and find someone saying Montana didn't sign here because we lost the keys to get in!

Now tell me, because I've heard this multiple times. What exactly, and I'll take just one, have I been wrong about that I have failed to admit?

Considering 99% of everything discussed here is opinion and no opinion is more or less correct than another, what EXACTLY have I been definitively wrong about and failed to admit?

Please explain to me how my OPINION is more wrong than yours, or failing that point out the apparently many instances I've been factually wrong and failed to admit it.

 

[Stout]

Sure. I mean a day doesn't go by one of you doesn't invent something negative about this Org. There are 100 examples from the last day alone. You can scroll up and find someone saying Montana didn't sign here because we lost the keys to get in!

Now tell me, because I've heard this multiple times. What exactly, and I'll take just one, have I been wrong about that I have failed to admit?

Considering 99% of everything discussed here is opinion and no opinion is more or less correct than another, what EXACTLY have I been definitively wrong about and failed to admit?

Please explain to me how my OPINION is more wrong than yours, or failing that point out the apparently many instances I've been factually wrong and failed to admit it.

Yes, I'm going to waste my time pointing out the obvious to you only for you to ignore it or say I'm wrong then accuse me of reading comprehension problems lol I'm not going to do what defines insanity.

 

[Minski]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[BritCard]

Yes, I'm going to waste my time pointing out the obvious to you only for you to ignore it or say I'm wrong then accuse me of reading comprehension problems lol I'm not going to do what defines insanity.

Weird how when I ask for examples you "bloviate".

I'll tell you what. Next time you see one you point it out to me. In the mean time, don't accuse me of something you can't substantiate.

 

[Stout]

Weird how when I ask for examples you "bloviate".

I'll tell you what. Next time you see one you point it out to me. In the mean time, don't accuse me of something you can't substantiate.

You're so full of it. Amongst the many, many things people have pointed out to you was inking huge extensions and then firing those employees before the extensions even kicked in. It's not my...check that, it's not the whole board's fault you think you're (and the Cards) are always right and everyone else is inexplicably wrong. You've been presented ample evidence, but, after being led to water, refused to drink.

And there I go. I must be insane, doing the same thing over and over again lol

 

[BritCard]

You're so full of it. Amongst the many, many things people have pointed out to you was inking huge extensions and then firing those employees before the extensions even kicked in. It's not my...check that, it's not the whole board's fault you think you're (and the Cards) are always right and everyone else is inexplicably wrong. You've been presented ample evidence, but, after being led to water, refused to drink.

And there I go. I must be insane, doing the same thing over and over again lol

I'm not sure saying the same thing with more words is an argument.

How exactly was "I wrong and failed to admit it" about Keim and Kliff's extensions when I said at the time they were bad and I've said this week that they were bad? How is this evidence of my "wrongness"?

I'm not sure what part of "It was a bad decision but all Orgs have a litany of bad decisions on their books" is wrong. You might have a different opinion. You might even be right. But we will never know and you certainly can't say that I'm wrong.

And I don't in any way think I'm right and anyone else is wrong, never mind everyone else. Never have I, or will I say someone else is wrong. You may have a different opinion, and I may strongly disagree, but that doesn't make either of us right or wrong. And I've said this a number of times.

If I had an opinion or a take on something that was so poor or weak that I had to change it it wouldn't have been well considered in the first place, and I try very hard not to do that. And if I defend my position against yours, well that's no different to what you are doing at the same time.

So no, you won't find me often say "Your right, my take was wrong and I now agree with you" but that isn't because I don't entertain that you might be right. I shouldn't really have to explain this on a DISCUSSION forum.

But the offer still stands. If you see something I say that is definitively wrong feel free to point it out.