Welcome Cam Johnson

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That assumes there is another team in that range that wants to trade and that they have an asset or assets the Suns value more than Saric—unless you are advocating a SECOND trade from 10 down into the 16 to 20 range. I suppose they could try to do that. But draft day is pretty fluid. Trading their pick twice is a lot of wheeling and dealing.

2nd trade. Certainly had plenty of time considering when 1st went down. Maybe no partners. But I’m looking for a GM who can spin gold not settle for copper. Admittedly high hopes.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Chris Paul was fine with Harden. Atleast for a little while. That is what it is supposed to look like.

Not sure if I agree. We needed an awesome defender who can play off the ball on offense and shoot lights out when it's his turn.





https://arizonasports.com/story/202...rubio-signing-as-one-of-nba-offseasons-worst/

20 front office execs.

That’s being disingenuous. 20 were in the poll but only 6 named Rubio contract as worst move. Still that is 6 that said worst move of summer which is troubling.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That’s being disingenuous. 20 were in the poll but only 6 named Rubio contract as worst move. Still that is 6 that said worst move of summer which is troubling.

It is troubling but maybe they are the same 6 executives that considered the Ariza signing to be one of the best moves of the 2018 summer and voted that Josh Jackson would be the best player from his class 5 years down the road?

 

[Dr. Jones]

Who is this journeyman PG that can't defend?

Ricky Rubio. Sure he gets you some steals, but his half court defense is atrocious. Defensive rating isn't everything as some have noted, but he is below defensive juggernaughts like Harden, Kyrie, Tyreke Evans and more.

https://stats.nba.com/players/advan...=2018-19&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerPosition=G

Can’t defend? Are you talking about Rubio? And we signed Oubre or didn’t you hear?

We signed Oubre to the most modest of deals. 2 years and poof...... he's gone.

That’s being disingenuous. 20 were in the poll but only 6 named Rubio contract as worst move. Still that is 6 that said worst move of summer which is troubling.

12 of the 20 said the Knicks or the Rubio contract. 30% of the total vote said Suns. 30% said Knicks. Pretty horrible company for 60% of the vote.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Ricky Rubio. Sure he gets you some steals, but his half court defense is atrocious.


We signed Oubre to the most modest of deals. 2 years and poof...... he's gone.



12 of the 20 said the Knicks or the Rubio contract. 30% of the total vote said Suns. 30% said Knicks. Pretty horrible company for 60% of the vote.

You are just wrong on that one. Rubio is actually a good defender and has been essentially since his rookie season. It is not just about steals either as he plays good team defense and advanced analytics completely back up the fact that he is good on that end.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You are just wrong on that one. Rubio is actually a good defender and has been essentially since his rookie season. It is not just about steals either as he plays good team defense and advanced analytics completely back up the fact that he is good on that end.

I will leave this up to the eye of the beholder then.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I will leave this up to the eye of the beholder then.

I've always argued that Rubio was overrated as a defender but that was with others that considered him stellar on that end.

 

[Phrazbit]

Ricky Rubio. Sure he gets you some steals, but his half court defense is atrocious. Defensive rating isn't everything as some have noted, but he is below defensive juggernaughts like Harden, Kyrie, Tyreke Evans and more.

https://stats.nba.com/players/advan...=2018-19&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerPosition=G


We signed Oubre to the most modest of deals. 2 years and poof...... he's gone.



12 of the 20 said the Knicks or the Rubio contract. 30% of the total vote said Suns. 30% said Knicks. Pretty horrible company for 60% of the vote.

Nice 5 game sample size for your stat... meanwhile if you look at him during the regular season Rubio rated among the elite guards in the same stat.

And Rubio’s contract will have zero impact on our ability to keep Oubre, we’re going to be nearly 40 million under the cap.

These critiques are hot air.

 

[devilalum]

I'm not sold on White either. But when you are faced with a mid-tier PG at an OUTRAGEOUS price, or a High Ceiling, light speed, young PG prospect at a cheap price...... the choice should be easy.

Lowe or somewone had a graphic on ESPN where they polled a ton of front office folks from around the league and asked them to name the craziest thing that happened this summer.

Tied for #1: The Knicks off season and the Rubio contract.

All the “experts” said Nash’s contract was crazy. Cuban let him go because he thought it was crazy. Not sayin Rubio is Nash, just that sometimes you gotta take a chance.


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[Mainstreet]

All the “experts” said Nash’s contract was crazy. Cuban let him go because he thought it was crazy. Not sayin Rubio is Nash, just that sometimes you gotta take a chance.

The Mavericks concern about Nash's back issues was one of the reasons they didn't match the Suns offer... just saying.

 

[Raze]

Problem is, you can’t say that and then say we need a point guard in the same breath. Do we need a point guard or does Booker need the ball in his hands most of the time? These “experts” don’t seem to know anything about the Suns.

This and then some.

It's a small sample size but when Book had an 11 game stretch with Elfrid Payton (similar skill set to Rubio), Book averaged:
28 PPG
3.9 APG
4.3 RPG
And averaged 39% from 3.
6 of those games he scored 30+
(I'm not positive on those numbers as I ran them pretty fast)

Those numbers give us a glimmer of hope of what he can do with a starting caliber PG. And I think Rubio is better than Payton.

 

[Phrazbit]

Rubio is immeasurably better than Payton, Payton is terrible.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ricky Rubio. Sure he gets you some steals, but his half court defense is atrocious. Defensive rating isn't everything as some have noted, but he is below defensive juggernaughts like Harden, Kyrie, Tyreke Evans and more.

https://stats.nba.com/players/advan...=2018-19&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerPosition=G


We signed Oubre to the most modest of deals. 2 years and poof...... he's gone.



12 of the 20 said the Knicks or the Rubio contract. 30% of the total vote said Suns. 30% said Knicks. Pretty horrible company for 60% of the vote.

That’s funny. He signs a deal and you complain we should have given him more. He says that he wants to prove himself and stay long term and you say he is leaving in two years.

I am beginning to think you are just trolling while pretending to be a fan. No one can go to such amazing lengths to find negative things to say and be serious.

 

[gimpy]

What? Wait.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Chris Paul was fine with Harden. Atleast for a little while. That is what it is supposed to look like.

Not sure if I agree. We needed an awesome defender who can play off the ball on offense and shoot lights out when it's his turn.





https://arizonasports.com/story/202...rubio-signing-as-one-of-nba-offseasons-worst/

20 front office execs.

Only 4 rated Terry Rozier as the worst???

Seriously? Hes substantially worse than Rubio in EVERY CATEGORY.....AND...He was paid more!

That shows you how bunk this poll was.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That’s funny. He signs a deal and you complain we should have given him more. He says that he wants to prove himself and stay long term and you say he is leaving in two years.

I am beginning to think you are just trolling while pretending to be a fan. No one can go to such amazing lengths to find negative things to say and be serious.

Its ridiculous that on one hand hes complaining that Rubio is overpaid and then complaining that they didnt lock up Oubre long enough. I'd be antsy if they had paid Oubre more.

Hes really only been worth it for half a season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That’s funny. He signs a deal and you complain we should have given him more. He says that he wants to prove himself and stay long term and you say he is leaving in two years.

I am beginning to think you are just trolling while pretending to be a fan. No one can go to such amazing lengths to find negative things to say and be serious.

"Amazing lengths"? You do realize that outside this board, the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world either met our FA/Draft moves with either a collective shrug or outright mockery.

Dr. Jones has been around here forever, both as a loyal Suns and Cardinals fan. To call him a troll and pretending to be a fan is quite frankly an absolute pathetic and baseless attack. Then again, you're getting pretty good at those after questioning Ouchie's "emotional stability" because he dared question the Suns moves as well.

Great form JC. Keep it up.

 

[Cheesebeef]

All the “experts” said Nash’s contract was crazy. Cuban let him go because he thought it was crazy. Not sayin Rubio is Nash, just that sometimes you gotta take a chance.


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Here's my issue with this. I don't think you're making the Nash = Rubio argument, but I have a big quibble that getting Rubio was "taking a chance" in the same way Nash was.

We def took a chance there... but with Nash, it was taking a chance on a guy who had made ALL-NBA 2ND Team 2 of the previous 3 years, same with the All-Star team, while being a key cog in a team that regularly won playoff series. And the reason he wasn't re-signed was Cuban was worried about his back. It was a big swing the Suns took, but it was a swing with a player who's upside was All-Star level.

What they did with Rubio was basically bunt down the line, while paying like they were swinging for the fences. Dude's the DEFINITION of a Journeyman PG at this point. 3 teams in 5 years. His last two teams completely dumped his ass. You just can't make the comparison, IMO on taking a chance because nothing to this point in Rubio's career has shown he has a chance to reach great heights like Nash had shown. it was a conservative player personnel move, and an overpay, IMO.

"Taking a chance" would have been throwing the house at DLo. Now, not saying that would have been the right move or not, but that would have been legit taking a chance, throwing a big contract at a guy who just reached All-Star level.

 

[devilalum]

Here's my issue with this. I don't think you're making the Nash = Rubio argument, but I have a big quibble that getting Rubio was "taking a chance" in the same way Nash was.

We def took a chance there... but with Nash, it was taking a chance on a guy who had made ALL-NBA 2ND Team 2 of the previous 3 years, same with the All-Star team, while being a key cog in a team that regularly won playoff series. And the reason he wasn't re-signed was Cuban was worried about his back. It was a big swing the Suns took, but it was a swing with a player who's upside was All-Star level.

What they did with Rubio was basically bunt down the line, while paying like they were swinging for the fences. Dude's the DEFINITION of a Journeyman PG at this point. 3 teams in 5 years. His last two teams completely dumped his ass. You just can't make the comparison, IMO on taking a chance because nothing to this point in Rubio's career has shown he has a chance to reach great heights like Nash had shown. it was a conservative player personnel move, and an overpay, IMO.

"Taking a chance" would have been throwing the house at DLo. Now, not saying that would have been the right move or not, but that would have been legit taking a chance, throwing a big contract at a guy who just reached All-Star level.

If you believe that article the Pacers wanted him over Brogdon.


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[Cheesebeef]

If you believe that article the Pacers wanted him over Brogdon.


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that isn't what that article is saying AT ALL. First, I assume what you're referring to is the quote from Rubio's agent where he says Rubio only wanted to go there if Bogdonavich was there... even though a deal was basically considered a done deal. But from reporting at the time, the second Bogdonavich surprised the Pacers and left, they had a ton of cap room, and turned away from Rubio completely and went after Brogdon. I mean... after Bogdonavich left, they still had ample cap room for Rubio or Brogdon. Nowhere have I seen that they wanted him over Brogdon. They didn't think they could get Brogdon because they didn't expect to have that kind of room while assuming Bogdonavich was going to stay. Then, his his agent tries to sell the case that once Bodonavich left, Rubio was now wavering between playing for the 4 seed in the East or the worst team in the league. Yeah. That's called good PR and bad smelling crap. Bottom line, they had the cap space to sign either and once Bogdonavich went bye bye, they said the same to Rubio.

Here's what was actually said at the time:

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2019/7/3/20680604/ricky-rubio-talks-signing-phoenix-suns

"Once Bogdanovic was gone, the Pacers pivoted away from Rubio to the Bucks to discuss a sign-and-trade for restricted free agent Malcolm Brogdon, commonly seen as one of the best point guard targets on the market."

Now, going after Brogdon... THAT would have been the definition of taking a chance. Rubio is a known entity. You know what you're getting, thus I don't see how it's taking a chance.

 

[JCSunsfan]

"Amazing lengths"? You do realize that outside this board, the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world either met our FA/Draft moves with either a collective shrug or outright mockery.

Dr. Jones has been around here forever, both as a loyal Suns and Cardinals fan. To call him a troll and pretending to be a fan is quite frankly an absolute pathetic and baseless attack. Then again, you're getting pretty good at those after questioning Ouchie's "emotional stability" because he dared question the Suns moves as well.

Great form JC. Keep it up.

Ok. Fair enough. Apologies to DrJ and Ouchie. That was personal. I should not have gone there.

However I still think asserting that we did not pay Oubre enough seems totally . . . Outlandish? Trying to think of a word that communicates what I want without seeming personal.

 

[Johninromania]

Only suns fans would bitch about finally getting a solid PG. Rubio isn’t the second coming is Nash, but the man is a solid playmaker and PG. It’s a huge upgrade. This team was basically without a true point guard for two years and it showed.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Nice 5 game sample size for your stat... meanwhile if you look at him during the regular season Rubio rated among the elite guards in the same stat.

And Rubio’s contract will have zero impact on our ability to keep Oubre, we’re going to be nearly 40 million under the cap.

These critiques are hot air.

We will have a Max extension for Ayton and a (possible) super max for Booker in the years right after. Do you believe Sarver will be fine doing that? That summer will be the least of our upcoming worries.

 

[Dr. Jones]

That’s funny. He signs a deal and you complain we should have given him more. He says that he wants to prove himself and stay long term and you say he is leaving in two years.

I am beginning to think you are just trolling while pretending to be a fan. No one can go to such amazing lengths to find negative things to say and be serious.

Oubre has a much, much higher ceiling IMO that the, now journeyman, PG Rubio. You have to be able to project greatness before it happens. The Warriors did it with Steph and it worked out great for them.

2 years for Oubre was possibly the worst possible outcome IMO. He's getting less than a ton of his peers (something that matters) and he is only locked up during the years we will probably struggle mightily just to be a top 12 team in the west (years that really wont matter). By the end of those 2 years, I expect him become a Max-level or near-max level guy. Which will cost us more over years 3 4 and 5 than if we would have paid him what he probably wanted over a longer period.

Its ridiculous that on one hand hes complaining that Rubio is overpaid and then complaining that they didnt lock up Oubre long enough. I'd be antsy if they had paid Oubre more.

Hes really only been worth it for half a season.

Dude..... Oubre is worth 20 mill per season now. And will be near max or at the max in 2 years. That's my personal opinion.

"Amazing lengths"? You do realize that outside this board, the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world either met our FA/Draft moves with either a collective shrug or outright mockery.

Dr. Jones has been around here forever, both as a loyal Suns and Cardinals fan. To call him a troll and pretending to be a fan is quite frankly an absolute pathetic and baseless attack. Then again, you're getting pretty good at those after questioning Ouchie's "emotional stability" because he dared question the Suns moves as well.

Great form JC. Keep it up.

Thanks cheese.

Ok. Fair enough. Apologies to DrJ and Ouchie. That was personal. I should not have gone there.

However I still think asserting that we did not pay Oubre enough seems totally . . . Outlandish? Trying to think of a word that communicates what I want without seeming personal.

No worries JC. My overall depression with this team is truly rotting my soul. I'm sure it bleeds out to many of my doom and gloom posts.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We will have a Max extension for Ayton and a (possible) super max for Booker in the years right after. Do you believe Sarver will be fine doing that? That summer will be the least of our upcoming worries.

Ok. Thinking about paying Booker a supermax is making me depressed. I don’t see him ever being worth that. To me the supermax needs to be reserved for mvp candidates and not even all of them.

Man. You really like Oubre. Why not just take a moment to be glad we have him right now. If it weren’t for signing Ariza last summer we would not have him.