Well this isn’t promising…

[Stout]

Im still banking on Collins > Simmons long term.

Just sucks to not have a consistent starter with our 1st round pick when we are competing for a Super Bowl.

I...have no idea what you're basing this on. Collins better than Simmons long-term. Simmons who flashed well last season, was screwed over by Vance, and is now a pro-bowl level player. Versus...a guy getting beat out for playing time by a forever backup.

 

[Stout]

Sorry, NyQuil is getting to me now. Collins. Correct.

But come on Stout. You can't give up on him after only ten games. To re-quote my oft used phrase about Josh McCown, the book is not yet closed on Zach Collins.

No worries! I'm not giving up on him; I was never a fan of his to begin with. I mean, I'm a fan because he's our player, but I didn't want us to draft him.

 

[Stout]

Dude it’s halfway through a kids rookie season.

Where he's shown absolutely nothing and is getting out-practiced/played by a career backup, in a league where your #1 picks need to make an instant impact.

 

[Finito]

Where he's shown absolutely nothing and is getting out-practiced/played by a career backup, in a league where your #1 picks need to make an instant impact.

I can look at two really good guys on our own roster who gave us nothing at didn’t start as rookies also drafted in the first round in The Captain and Isiah Simmons who are balling now.


Your in a rush to pound your chest and say see I told you so

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I can look at two really good guys on our own roster who gave us nothing at didn’t start as rookies also drafted in the first round in The Captain and Isiah Simmons who are balling now.


Your in a rush to pound your chest and say see I told you so

@Stout, I have to agree that you're rushing to judgement, but I also won't argue that perhaps Collins has underperformed his draft position. He might be a little banged up, so that could be affecting his play.

Time will tell.

 

[kerouac9]

They do mean something.

There’s a reason Tanner has been a fringe NFL player for 5 years. He’s not that good.

The reason isn't because of PFF ratings, I can assure you. I agree that Vallejo has been a fringe NFL player, though.

The other side of the equation is that Collins has only played 167 defensive snaps before this week. That's basically two and a half games. It's too early to bury him or crown him based on such a small sample size.

It remains staggering that our top off-ball linebacker prospects can't find the field during their rookie seasons. That's usually one of the easiest positions to transition to.

 

[AustrianCardFan]

I really hated to see him getting shoved away by Newton for the first TD, that is a play that he should certainly be able to make with his physical abilities. On the other hand that might have something to do with his lingering shoulder problem.

 

[Jetstream Green]

The reason isn't because of PFF ratings, I can assure you. I agree that Vallejo has been a fringe NFL player, though.

The other side of the equation is that Collins has only played 167 defensive snaps before this week. That's basically two and a half games. It's too early to bury him or crown him based on such a small sample size.

It remains staggering that our top off-ball linebacker prospects can't find the field during their rookie seasons. That's usually one of the easiest positions to transition to.

From your knowledge, would you cite that VJ has one of the more complex defenses in the bulk of shifting formations he deploys through out a game... just thinking maybe that's the reason for this unusual learning curve if wearing the green dot falls on him

 

[SoonerLou]

I...have no idea what you're basing this on. Collins better than Simmons long-term. Simmons who flashed well last season, was screwed over by Vance, and is now a pro-bowl level player. Versus...a guy getting beat out for playing time by a forever backup.

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Right now Simmons gets numbers, but Im still not sure about the quality yet. I still see him have poor eyes and recognition . EVen PFF has him at just 52 overall.

Collins thumps guys his rookie year. I didnt see that enough from Simmons his rookie year. I think potentially he'll always be a really physical linebacker who who is athletic enough to make plays when the ball is in the air.

Dont get me wrong I like Simmons as well. Just believe Collins has a higher upside.

 

[Russ Smith]

The Zaven thing is odd I have to assume he's not picking up the system and nuances yet because Vallejo is just a guy he's nothing special. Collins has way more upside he needs to start to play more if he's healthy

 

[kerouac9]

From your knowledge, would you cite that VJ has one of the more complex defenses in the bulk of shifting formations he deploys through out a game... just thinking maybe that's the reason for this unusual learning curve if wearing the green dot falls on him

I don't really have enough knowledge to say one way or the other, TBH.

 

[DVontel]

Collins would’ve done a better job covering CMC than Simmons did. Simmons is way too clunky to cover guys that damn shifty, especially a talent like CMC.

 

[DVontel]

It’s annoying to see Micah Parsons pretty much play multiple positions with absolutely no problem for Dallas. Yea he is a better talent, but he was a raw as a ILB coming out of college yet that hasn’t stopped Dallas from playing him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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Right now Simmons gets numbers, but Im still not sure about the quality yet. I still see him have poor eyes and recognition . EVen PFF has him at just 52 overall.

Collins thumps guys his rookie year. I didnt see that enough from Simmons his rookie year. I think potentially he'll always be a really physical linebacker who who is athletic enough to make plays when the ball is in the air.

Dont get me wrong I like Simmons as well. Just believe Collins has a higher upside.

Lol. I think I can recall a single “thumping” by Collins so far this season. And a LOT of time on the bench. I can also recall him getting stiff armed by an old cam Newton . . . yesterday.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Collins would’ve done a better job covering CMC than Simmons did. Simmons is way too clunky to cover guys that damn shifty, especially a talent like CMC.

I cannot recall a single play of Collins covering a running back this year. I’ve seen him drop in a zone and make a play, but no actual coverage.

 

[BulldogCard]

Every one has to chill. Had a **** week, game that was going to get lost. Now it's time to get a few players back, start kicking ass!

 

[FB94]

I find it strange that Collins still has limited snaps. Some of this is from his shoulder injury but I would like to see him get more time especially come off the bye week for remainder of the year

 

[BullheadCardFan]

The reason isn't because of PFF ratings, I can assure you. I agree that Vallejo has been a fringe NFL player, though.

The other side of the equation is that Collins has only played 167 defensive snaps before this week. That's basically two and a half games. It's too early to bury him or crown him based on such a small sample size.

It remains staggering that our top off-ball linebacker prospects can't find the field during their rookie seasons. That's usually one of the easiest positions to transition to.

So is it on the coaching staff not able to find time for him?

Or all on Collins not picking up the system?

Strange that this coaching staff has issues getting rookies on the field when other teams find a way

 

[cardpa]

I think coming from a smaller college program (Tulsa) is a factor with Collins while the guy I wanted and would have traded up to get Parsons is doing quite well in Dallas.

 

[AZCardsWin]

You can't go for it on 4th and 1 on your side that early in the game...we been getting lucky all year...finally bit our ass. You bury the Panthers deep game is only 7-0

And if you do go for it, please use our best short yardage back in James Conner!

 

[kerouac9]

So is it on the coaching staff not able to find time for him?

Or all on Collins not picking up the system?

Strange that this coaching staff has issues getting rookies on the field when other teams find a way

Marco Wilson didn't seem to have a hard time getting on the field.

I think the issue is that you have to earn superstar treatment where you're one of the 2-3 guys who everyone else on the defense needs to key off of. This is esentially the Troy Palumalu effect. Troy could do whatever he thought was right, and everyone else would have to circle back and cover for him. IMO, that's why we aren't seeing Baker wrecking plays -- he's having to cover for Simmons and Wilson. Adding another unexpected piece just creates too much uncertainty.

 

[ajcardfan]

He had

I cannot recall a single play of Collins covering a running back this year. I’ve seen him drop in a zone and make a play, but no actual coverage.

He wound up with the coverage responsibility on McCaffery yesterday when he caught the ball in the flat on the play it looked like he might have had a TD but stepped out on the two yardline. Collins was so slow to pick up on it, I swear he was 5 to 8 yards away from McCaffery when he caught the ball. CM is good, but he isn't THAT good to be so wide open. That was Collins thinking too much, slow to react.

 

[ajcardfan]

A coaching staff should not be trying to fix a players problems during a game. That is what practice is for. Why give him snaps for experience if he is sucking at coverage (for example) in practice?

 

[daves]

Nah, Simmons played well when he was allowed to last year. He had an early rookie hiccup and VJ punished him for it all year. I'm not seeing a parallel with Collins.

Simmons who flashed well last season, was screwed over by Vance, and is now a pro-bowl level player.

It's preposterous to believe that the DC who is hoping to earn another HC job and by most estimates on track to do just that, would do ANYTHING to sabotage his own defense in order to "punish" or "screw over" a player over one bad play. Sheesh.

Where [Collins has] shown absolutely nothing and is getting out-practiced/played by a career backup, in a league where your #1 picks need to make an instant impact.

So you think, with zero evidence, that Joseph's reluctance to play Simmons was out of spite, but at the same time you are quite confident that his reluctance to play Collins is a result of Collins being out-practiced/played?

I'd love to see how you rationalize such inconsistent conclusions!

...dave

 

[Stout]

It's preposterous to believe that the DC who is hoping to earn another HC job and by most estimates on track to do just that, would do ANYTHING to sabotage his own defense in order to "punish" or "screw over" a player over one bad play. Sheesh.

So you think, with zero evidence, that Joseph's reluctance to play Simmons was out of spite, but at the same time you are quite confident that his reluctance to play Collins is a result of Collins being out-practiced/played?

I'd love to see how you rationalize such inconsistent conclusions!

...dave

Oh, I'm sure VJ THOUGHT he was doing the right thing and didn't think he was punishing him or screwing him over, though that was the effect. He wouldn't KNOWINGLY sabotage himself, but certainly did sabotage himself through the incompetence of wearing blinders where that player was concerned.

With Collins, I have seen none of the flash plays that we saw with Simmons. Just going off the eye test here. Nothing inconsistent whatsoever.

But, hey, that one poster can go on thinking Collins is the better player. Now which one of us is trying to stretch the truth? Hmm...