What About K-Mart?

[hsandhu]

Just a couple things on Kenyon Martin's restricted free agency

1. How likely do you think the Nets are to match a MAX offer sheet. Initially you would think they would be, but just last year there were strong rumors he would be traded because they did not want to shell out the max. Maybe they're going after Shareef right now for this very reason.

2. What about him as an option for the Suns? I definitely think he should be one of the options, if they feel they have no chance at Kobe. I got to thinking about this reading the Chad Ford article a couple days back, pointing out how after making a trade for T-Mac the Suns would still have max cap room (depending where the cap is) to offer up among guys like Nash and Okur. If there's a good chance the Nets won't match, I'd rather give a MAX contract to K-Mart, after making a deal for T-Mac. Obviously we then have 2 pf's, but outside of Shaq and Yao what centers are there? And Martin is a great defender, who can matchup with the likes of Garnett and Duncan, while Amare, who obviously has the athletic ability to play D, but needs a lot of work, can match up with the stiff centers around the league.

Thoughts?

 

[elindholm]

I think if the Suns are forced to settle for a two-PF lineup, it shouldn't be with two max (or near max) players. I don't like the McDyess scenarios, but I'd much rather pay him $3 million to play alongside Stoudemire than pay Martin $10 million. I do think Martin is a good player, but he's not a good fit for the Suns, in my opinion.

 

[scotsman13]

martins body is that of a small forward at 6'8" and 235. he has been very lucky to have been in the east where power forwards arent as good as in the west.

at 16.7 ppg, 9.5 rebounds, and only 1.2 blocks this guy isnt anything special expect for the energy that he plays with. next to amare this guy is a dud and wouldnt bring anything to this team but someone for amare to beat up on during practice.

 

[coloradosun]

With Shaq's request to be traded, I could see K-Mart going to LA with Kobe. NJ is already working on a deal to get SAR for Kittles, Rogers etc.

 

[George O'Brien]

K-Mart is a pretty good player, but he is not a great or near great player. He gets the benefit of playing with Kidd in an up tempo offense, but was not nearly as effective when the game slows down.

One odd thing is that his numbers are comparable to those of Marion

Kenyon Martin
New Jersey Nets
Position: F
Height: 6-9 Weight: 234
College: Cincinnati '00
Player file | Team stats

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 16.7
RPG 9.5
APG 2.5
SPG 1.46
BPG 1.26
FG% .488
FT% .684
3P% .280
MPG 34.6

Shawn Marion
Phoenix Suns
Position: F
Height: 6-7 Weight: 215
College: UNLV '00
Player file | Team stats

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 19.0
RPG 9.3
APG 2.7
SPG 2.11
BPG 1.32
FG% .440
FT% .851
3P% .340
MPG 40.7

Marion is closer to 230 than his listed 215 and no longer has the benefit of Kidd and the Nets up tempo offense to get layups. I don't know what it means, but it is rather interesting.

 

[scotsman13]

george the problem with martin is that his game is that of a power forward.

 

[George O'Brien]

george the problem with martin is that his game is that of a power forward.

I'm not sure I understand your point.

If you mean that he is about the size of small forward but has only inside skills, then I agree. K-Mart is a pretty good defender, but Amare chewed him up because Amare is so much stronger as well as quicker.

Being an undersized PF is not as much of a problem on a run oriented team, but it causes problems in the half court.

 

[hsandhu]

The only reason I bring this up, because when using our free agent dollars, outside of Kobe, I don't see anything more appealing.

Assume we do lose White, we're at 28 million, and assume roughly a 2 million dollar charge for the 7th pick, or roughly the amount of salary taken on after a deal for T-Mac. We're at 30 mil, and assume a cap of 43/44.

In best case we have about 14 million. I think the max K-mart can get from us would be 6 year 82.5 million, with an 11 million dollar base. So would you rather use 8/9 million on a 30 year old Nash and 5/6 million on potential in Okur. Or use 11 million on a 26 year old K-Mart and 3 million leftover. Or maybe there is a better way to use it outside of these two situations.

I personally would take the K-mart and 3 million left over situation. The thing that intrigues me about him is his one on one defense. You can put him out there w/o doubling on a big time pf and he can do the job. He's done it to Jermaine O'neal in the payoffs, and in the Finals last year did a respectable job on Duncan (of course outside of game 6 where duncan was 2 blocks short of a quadruple double, but K-Mart was sick the last coulpe games so I'll give him a break =) ).

 

[Joe Mama]

I'm sorry George, but I think it's difficult to compare Kenyon Martin and Shawn Marion.. They are both good players at their positions, but Martin plays power forward. It's one of the most important positions and again last small forward is probably the least important. He is actually one of the better defenders at that position in the NBA. But like Shawn Marion I don't think he is worth a maximum contract. We heard for years that Jason Kidd was responsible for Marion and Jefferson's success. It's debatable, but I think each of them have played at least just as well without him. I don't think Kenyon Martin is nearly as good without Kidd and that system.

It would be an interesting frontcourt with Amare Stoudemire and Kenyon Martin though. Either one of them could probably guard most of the small forwards in the NBA right now. On offense at least one of them would have a size advantage in virtually every game. That said, it's not going to happen. Unless they are getting a superstar like Kobe Bryant they need to spend their money on the center and point guard positions.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm sorry George, but I think it's difficult to compare Kenyon Martin and Shawn Marion.. They are both good players at their positions, but Martin plays power forward. It's one of the most important positions and again last small forward is probably the least important. He is actually one of the better defenders at that position in the NBA. But like Shawn Marion I don't think he is worth a maximum contract. We heard for years that Jason Kidd was responsible for Marion and Jefferson's success. It's debatable, but I think each of them have played at least just as well without him. I don't think Kenyon Martin is nearly as good without Kidd and that system.

It would be an interesting frontcourt with Amare Stoudemire and Kenyon Martin though. Either one of them could probably guard most of the small forwards in the NBA right now. On offense at least one of them would have a size advantage in virtually every game. That said, it's not going to happen. Unless they are getting a superstar like Kobe Bryant they need to spend their money on the center and point guard positions.

Joe Mama

Give me an hour and I'll figure out if you agree or disagre with me.

I don't think Kenyon Martin is nearly as good without Kidd and that system.

 

[Joe Mama]

I'm sorry. That post even confused me. I wrote it early in the morning.

I guess what I was trying to say is that you can't compare Kenyon Martin and Shawn Marion by numbers. Normally I would say that Martin is more valuable and should get more money because of his position. However I'm not sure Martin will be quite as productive without Jason Kidd. All hell, I'm not sure where I'm going with this.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

According to an unoffcial site Kenyon Martin measured in a 6'8 3/4 without shoes before the draft. 6'10 in shoes.
http://www.thehrr.com/nba/draft2000/chicago2.PDF

6'11 3/4 wingspan and a 9'1 one arm standing reach.

Amare measured in at 6'8 1/2 and 6'10 in shoes. 7'1 1/2 wingspan and 9' 1/2" one arm standing reach.

I am not sure I can believe that because Amare looks a good one or two inches taller than Martin and I just watched the Suns-Nets game on DVD last night again.

If true I wouldn't be absolutely opposed to signing Martin and play an Amare/Martin frontcourt.

If we could manage to get Steve Nash too. We would have Nash/JJ/Marion/Amare/Martin with the #7 pick coming off of the bench although we would probably have to trade it with Eisley to get enough capspace for Martin and Nash. Or we could draft Gordon giving us a Gordon/JJ/Marion/Amare/Martin lineup.

 

[Joe Mama]

According to an unoffcial site Kenyon Martin measured in a 6'8 3/4 without shoes before the draft. 6'10 in shoes.
http://www.thehrr.com/nba/draft2000/chicago2.PDF

6'11 3/4 wingspan and a 9'1 one arm standing reach.

Amare measured in at 6'8 1/2 and 6'10 in shoes. 7'1 1/2 wingspan and 9' 1/2" one arm standing reach.

I am not sure I can believe that because Amare looks a good one or two inches taller than Martin and I just watched the Suns-Nets game on DVD last night again.

If true I wouldn't be absolutely opposed to signing Martin and play an Amare/Martin frontcourt.

If we could manage to get Steve Nash too. We would have Nash/JJ/Marion/Amare/Martin with the #7 pick coming off of the bench although we would probably have to trade it with Eisley to get enough capspace for Martin and Nash. Or we could draft Gordon giving us a Gordon/JJ/Marion/Amare/Martin lineup.

Wow! I would have thought that Martin was at most 6'9" in shoes. But he has NBA for four years now. We should know how effective he is regardless of his height. Martin is going to get a max contract or something very, very close to it. I just don't think he would be worth that money to the Phoenix Suns. Unless they're going to get a superstar they need to spend their money on a defensive center with a decent 10 foot shot and a point guard.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

Suns 18M$ capspace

10M$ Kenyon Martin
4M$ Vlade Divac
2M$ #7 pick Gordon, Livingston, Smith or Iguodala.
2M$ Vujanic

Amare/Divac/Voshkul
Martin/Lampe
Marion/Zarko
Johnson/Jacobsen/#7
Barbosa/Vujanic/#7

I am loving it. I like this lineup probably more than the Kobe or TMac scenarios. And we wouldn't be tie up as much money in just one contract.

We get defense, excitement, depth, toughness, experience and winning attitude.

While the starters might be small Divac for the few games against Yao or Shaq still has enough left to play extended minutes in those games.