What Are the Cards Looking for From Murray’s Start?

[Stout]

I can’t see this make shift line creating a pocket for evaluating the ability to perform from the pocket.

Sure you can, maybe even more so with a makeshift line. As bad as the line is, there will be some plays with a clean pocket. How does he handle having a clean pocket when he's had rushers in his face all game long? Grace under fire will be a big barometer of how far he's come, or hasn't.

 

[CFLredzoned]

BTW, Joshua Dobbs as a Cardinal attempted 266 passes.

45 of those pass attempts came off play action (17%)

Last year, Kyler Murray as a Cardinal attempted 390 passes.

61 of those pass attempts came off play action (16%)

Aren't they two different things really? Play action from under center vs read option out of shotgun?

That's one thing I think Dobbs did alot better than Murray. Selling the fake.

With Murray I'm having flashbacks of awkward read option half fakes with the RB standing right next to him that nobody buys. It was hard to watch at times. I hope we don't see alot of that.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I agree that it was devestating and would love to see it - but I think 2020 Murray was already retired in 2021, and we'll never see that guy again.

2021 Murray with had 30 yards per game at 4.8 per rush, and I suspect that would be a good, perhaps ambitious, goal for 2023.

2022 Murray with 38 yards per game at 6.2 per rush might be the best we'll see again in his career, perhaps when he's another year removed from his ACL tear.

Hmmm.. daves.. you know Ouchie and his brother right? I think may be the first time we've spoken directly. I like how a lot of your posts are fact/stat intensive.

Anyway, perhaps you're correct. But at only 25/26 I don't think K1's innate athletic ability has declined to the point to make 2020-type stats impossible.

That we might see a better running Murray in 2024 seem plausible, although I never quite understood the medical science behind full ACL recovery taking 18+ months. It does sometimes seem to be a thing. Gardeck might be the most recent example.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think you want to be able to get the ball downfield more than Dobbs did. Could be tough with the OL but at least Murray has the arm and the accuracy to do it.

As others said the run game will be interesting, Dobbs did a better job on the read option of whether to keep it or hand it off or throw, I think Kyler often makes his mind up and doesn't actually read the defense on that. Hopefully he's worked on that.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Sure you can, maybe even more so with a makeshift line. As bad as the line is, there will be some plays with a clean pocket. How does he handle having a clean pocket when he's had rushers in his face all game long? Grace under fire will be a big barometer of how far he's come, or hasn't.

You're a tough critic Stout, but I think this is pretty fair.

The world will consider the context of the game when it evaluates Murray's performance. "good" or "bad" won't be purely determined by stats, but instead on did he get acceptable/good/optimal result for each play.

For example, if on one pass play, there's a free rusher off the edge, and pressure up the middle, but Murray manages to evade and throw it away, that will go as 0/1 on the stat line, but could still be considered an acceptable result under the circumstances.

 

[Totally_Red]

I think the leadership point trumps all else. And a big part of that is interaction with his teammates. Unless Kyler dramatically improves in leading his teammates he shouldn't be a Cardinal in 2024.

 

[slanidrac16]

I believe most on this site will be disappointed even if Kyler’s performance is average.
That will be a bit unfair but it’s wishful thinking that he is going to light it up.

 

[QuebecCard]

I think the leadership point trumps all else. And a big part of that is interaction with his teammates. Unless Kyler dramatically improves in leading his teammates he shouldn't be a Cardinal in 2024.

All reports during the offseason and lead-up to his return seem to indicate that he has, in fact, taken a leadership role and is seen as such by teammates.

 

[cardpa]

I think the biggest thing and it has been mentioned here is how well Murray executes the offense as designed. I think the biggest question is how ingrained are the bad habits he has developed over the years and can he rise above/overcome them. The next biggest question is has Murray made significant progress on the mental side of the game?

 

[gmabel830]

Looking like a competent offense while still losing would be an improvement and still support the bigger picture plan.

 

[Stout]

You're a tough critic Stout, but I think this is pretty fair.

The world will consider the context of the game when it evaluates Murray's performance. "good" or "bad" won't be purely determined by stats, but instead on did he get acceptable/good/optimal result for each play.

For example, if on one pass play, there's a free rusher off the edge, and pressure up the middle, but Murray manages to evade and throw it away, that will go as 0/1 on the stat line, but could still be considered an acceptable result under the circumstances.

Absolutely. It's the substance of the plays one at a time rather than the numbers. Ain't no one putting up good numbers with this team this season.

 

[daves]

Hmmm.. daves.. you know Ouchie and his brother right?

Yes! It's nice being able to go to the occasional game and commiserate with other Cards fans - even if they're otherwise insufferable!

I think may be the first time we've spoken directly. I like how a lot of your posts are fact/stat intensive.

Thanks! I seem to be better at finding the facts to contradict others' opinions, than at having correct opinions of my own!

Anyway, perhaps you're correct. But at only 25/26 I don't think K1's innate athletic ability has declined to the point to make 2020-type stats impossible.

Oh, I wasn't basing the quoted post on age-related athletic decline, so much as short-term injury related decline, and even moreso, the coaching staff's desire to see him make more plays from the pocket and expose him to fewer hits outside the pocket. And perhaps, his own decreasing predilection for running.

That we might see a better running Murray in 2024 seem plausible, although I never quite understood the medical science behind full ACL recovery taking 18+ months. It does sometimes seem to be a thing. Gardeck might be the most recent example.

I think the offense would be more dangerous if Murray reverted to a 2020 level of running... I just don't expect to see it.

 

[daves]

I think the leadership point trumps all else. And a big part of that is interaction with his teammates. Unless Kyler dramatically improves in leading his teammates he shouldn't be a Cardinal in 2024.

I'd also like to see him interacting with his coaches when he's on the sideline, rather than sitting by himself.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Hmmm.. daves.. you know Ouchie and his brother right? I think may be the first time we've spoken directly. I like how a lot of your posts are fact/stat intensive.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes! It's nice being able to go to the occasional game and commiserate with other Cards fans - even if they're otherwise insufferable!

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[juza76]

How many points the Cardinals scored in the last for games?
43, average is just below 11 points for game
So I expect Murray to double those numbers

 

[kerouac9]

How many points the Cardinals scored in the last for games?
43, average is just below 11 points for game
So I expect Murray to double those numbers

15 ppg with Dobbs which is a better baseline.

 

[juza76]

15 ppg with Dobbs which is a better baseline.

Yes
And what numbers do u expect from k1?

 

[kerouac9]

Yes
And what numbers do u expect from k1?

Atlanta is allowing a little over 21 ppg. I’d like to see us score 20.

 

[ajcardfan]

Yes
And what numbers do u expect from k1?

You are not asking me, but I don't expect anything.

 

[nashman]

So?

 

[Cheesebeef]

That

 

[RON_IN_OC]

That

Don't forget a little of this.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Seemed like some timing and touch was a bit off but the athleticism seems to still be intact.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Seemed like some timing and touch was a bit off but the athleticism seems to still be intact.

Deep ball seemed all over the place. But if you’re a number 1 WR, you need to make that TD catch and he had another perfect touch pass to the TE for a 25 yard gain that dude just flat dropped.