What are the Suns?

[Cheesebeef]

It's not like we're falling out of the top 5 picks, we simply aren't bad enough to be in that territory. Anyway, it is never a given that you'll get the guy you want or that the guy you wanted will translate to the pros into the player you expect. You're much better off improving how ever you can do it rather than setting your hopes on something that can only be called a gamble. I don't even think we'd be among the 5 worst teams if we lost Bledsoe tomorrow. IMO, we'd have to trade Dragic in addition to losing Bledsoe to be among the 3 or 4 worst teams.

Steve

Steve, I think you're a little too in love with this squad. Bledsoe is the straw that stirs this drink. If he was gone for some reason, this team would be really bad. I think he's that much of an impact maker.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Steve, I think you're a little too in love with this squad. Bledsoe is the straw that stirs this drink. If he was gone for some reason, this team would be really bad. I think he's that much of an impact maker.

It's possible. I'm not intentionally deluding myself but I'll admit, I've made a conscious decision to try and be the kind of fan I used to be. I am choosing to look at things in the most positive light that I can reasonably shine on any situation.

Markieff, for example, might just be a flash in the pan and as soon as the defense takes away his favorite move he could well resort to the soft defending/long distance liability he was last season. But it's also possible that we're seeing the result of hard work and growth. He was one of the top players in college and I choose to believe he's turned the corner and is about to be one of the top players in the NBA. I wouldn't bet my house on it but I think I have as much chance of being right as the people that are convinced his recent play is just a fluke.

Steve

 

[asudevil83]

People are overreacting to our wins. We are 5-2. And 4 of those 5 wins have come against teams with losing records.

the suns have beaten teams that ANY decent team is supposed to beat. And they have beaten them confidently. you cannot fault them for that.

What surprises me is that they have also taken OKC and SA down the stretch, playing them back and forth the entire way. SA's coach and players have also given us props for how this team has played against them. Could it be a fluke, sure, but you cannot still say this team is anywhere near as bad or flawed as we viewed them coming into preseason or after preseason.

Had Portland beaten us like they were supposed to, they'd be 6-1
At the beginning of the season we all thought NO would have beaten us twice so they'd be 5-3
So now we are talking about Utah and Denver.

So at the beginning of the season ANYONE would have thought we'd be at best 2-5 at this point instead of 5-2. For that any real fan MUST give us credit where it is deserved.

Also:
Rebound Dif: 6th in league
Points Allowed: 6th in league
Defense: 5th in league

Its not our Offense that has carried us like years past....its our D, which has been more than adequate.

I will say though that this is a true team squad. If more than a couple pieces falter during a game, then we are a bad team. We rely 4 players or so to have good nights each night, and so far those players havent shown that they are consistent YET. Bledsoe/Plumlee/Markieff/Dragic are our bread and butter and we need at least 2 of them to produce every night or we will go nowhere.

 

[PhxGametime]

I'm not sure the Suns are Championship contender, yet but no one stands out for me to just tell Team to turn it off and lose 60 of next 70+ games.

Wiggins, Embiid(sp), and A Gordon are the only 3 standout athletes I've seen thus far for the top tier Draft Prospects - Gordon will have-to prove all Season he's a 3, Embiid is raw, and Wiggins is a bit on the thin side.

Some of the 2nd/3rd tier athletes (Cauley-Stein, J Carson, Selden, N Johnson, Young, Harris, Ashley, etc.) could intrigue lower in the Draft and I'd hate to see the Suns give up on Season for Prospects that aren't quite in the Garnett, Duncan, James, Bryant, Wade, Westbrook, Rondo, Paul, McGrady, etc. (size, athleticism, defensive potential) class.

Though there will be solid players...

 

[PhxGametime]

I'm not sure the Suns are Championship contender, yet but no one stands out for me to just tell Team to turn it off and lose 60 of next 70+ games.

Wiggins, Embiid(sp), and A Gordon are the only 3 standout athletes I've seen thus far for the top tier Draft Prospects - Gordon will have-to prove all Season he's a 3, Embiid is raw, and Wiggins is a bit on the thin side.

Some of the 2nd/3rd tier athletes (Cauley-Stein, J Carson, Selden, N Johnson, Young, Harris, Ashley, etc.) could intrigue lower in the Draft and I'd hate to see the Suns give up on Season for Prospects that aren't quite in the Garnett, Duncan, James, Bryant, Wade, Westbrook, Rondo, Paul, McGrady, etc. (size, athleticism, defensive potential) class.

Though there will be solid players...

 

[BC867]

Watching Jabari tonight just makes this winning by the Suns all that much more painful... I can't believe we are going to fall out of the top 5 picks and our chance for Parker.

Is it bad to hope that Bledsoe gets some kinda injury ala David Robinson for just a year?

Psychology is part of any athlete's or team's performance.

If we sink back into losing, we'd be building a mentality of losing.

Even if we did luck out with one of the top three picks (which is not a given), he'd be walking into a group of young players who have been taught to fail.

As a fan, I can't cheer for that! It is up to the GM to bring in a heavy hitter to solidify (what appears to be) the good coach he brought in and a surprisingly good and balanced roster (compared to the Beasley Bunch).

 

[TucsonDevil]

It is up to the GM to bring in a heavy hitter to solidify (what appears to be) the good coach he brought in and a surprisingly good and balanced roster (compared to the Beasley Bunch).

Can someone tell me of a "heavy hitter" FA that Sarver has brought in since Jerry's name was not attached to the Suns Organization?

I'm not trying to be negative, but the days of Danny Manning signing a $1M deal on a promise of a larger deal down the road are ancient history. I can only hope that Hornacek and McD can slowly change that going forward.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Psychology is part of any athlete's or team's performance.

If we sink back into losing, we'd be building a mentality of losing.

Even if we did luck out with one of the top three picks (which is not a given), he'd be walking into a group of young players who have been taught to fail.

As a fan, I can't cheer for that! It is up to the GM to bring in a heavy hitter to solidify (what appears to be) the good coach he brought in and a surprisingly good and balanced roster (compared to the Beasley Bunch).

This.

 

[Sci Fi]

I think you're in trouble. My guess, we win 40 - 44 games and just miss the playoffs. Most people would call that in between. I'd call it great but that's just in relation to expectations. But I think we may actually have a nucleus to build around. We don't have enough to compete at the highest level but upgrades at the power forward/wing positions and we'll be well on our way.

Unless you add the best player in the game (or thereabouts) to your lineup it will probably take a few years of playing together while adding a piece here and there but we've gone from hopeless to hopeful overnight. I think I'm going to be smiling all season long. I don't demand a championship contender, just a team that is clearly working towards that goal and for the first time in a few years I'm convinced we have that in Phoenix. They could un-convince me but I don't see that happening.

Steve

A fairly reasonable assessment of where things are at from my perspective. I actually think there is an outside chance at this team getting HC in the playoffs. Highly unlikely but not impossible. Having said that, I don't think the playoffs are a lock. I'd say a good probability but there are so many good teams in the West. Greater than 50%. Great team chemistry, much more talent than most expected and the coaching has been outstanding. They'll likely struggle on offense but the defense is for real. Looking forward to how the offense eventually evolves. I still think Dragic is the best PG although a nice mix between the two could turn into something very interesting.

 

[Superbone]

Great team chemistry, much more talent than most expected and the coaching has been outstanding. They'll likely struggle on offense but the defense is for real. Looking forward to how the offense eventually evolves. I still think Dragic is the best PG although a nice mix between the two could turn into something very interesting.

How often as Suns' fans have we been able to say this?! I love it!

 

[JCSunsfan]

It might be time to find another way. Getting a top 5 pick might just not be in the cards for the Suns.

I posted this elsewhere. I thought I might repeat it here.

The Lakers have 5 championships without drafting any of their top players in the top 5.
The Dallas Mavericks have 1.
The Detroit Pistons have 1.
The Boston Celtics have 1.

You can get a top 5 type of player through free agency or trade. 8 of the last 20 champions say so.

Consider this. In the last 15 years (seems like a long nba career number) only two teams that had a top 5 pick in that time have won an NBA championship--Miami and Boston. Of those two teams, only 1 player has had an significant role in winning that championship--Dwayne Wade. Miami did draft Michael Beasley #2 but sold him off for nothing so they could sign free agents. Boston drafted Jeff Green, whose role in Boston's championship was being traded for Ray Allen.

The overwhelming, VAST majority of teams with top 5 picks during that period are still mired in futility. The point is not that you have to have a top 5 pick. You have to find a way to get a top 5 talent type of player. Teams that have won championships in the last 15 years have traded for them or signed them as free agents much, much more often than draft them.

Championship teams that have drafted their franchise player in the top 5 over the last couple of decades: San Antonio (Duncan, Robinson), Miami (Dwayne Wade, but still needed to get an equal or better player through draft or free agency), Chicago Bulls (Jordan, Pippen). That's all. I guess we could go back earlier, but BJ (before Jordan) is just a different era.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It might be time to find another way. Getting a top 5 pick might just not be in the Cards for the Suns.

I posted this elsewhere. I thought I might repeat it here.

The Lakers have 5 championships without drafting any of their top players in the top 5.
The Dallas Mavericks have 1.
The Detroit Pistons have 1.
The Boston Celtics have 1.

You can get a top 5 type of player through free agency or trade. 8 of the last 20 champions say so.

Consider this. In the last 15 years (seems like a long nba career number) only two teams that had a top 5 pick in that time have won an NBA championship--Miami and Boston. Of those two teams, only 1 player has had an significant role in winning that championship--Dwayne Wade. Miami did draft Michael Beasley #2 but sold him off for nothing so they could sign free agents. Boston drafted Jeff Green, whose role in Boston's championship was being traded for Ray Allen.

The overwhelming, VAST majority of teams with top 5 picks during that period are still mired in futility. The point is not that you have to have a top 5 pick. You have to find a way to get a top 5 talent type of player. Teams that have won championships in the last 15 years have traded for them or signed them as free agents much, much more often than draft them.

Championship teams that have drafted their franchise player in the top 5 over the last couple of decades: San Antonio (Duncan, Robinson), Miami (Dwayne Wade, but still needed to get an equal or better player through draft or free agency), Chicago Bulls (Jordan, Pippen). That's all. I guess we could go back earlier, but BJ (before Jordan) is just a different era.

I think the most important step in building a championship contender is deciding to do so. Not every organization looks to that goal. Some are satisfied with letting the chips fall as they may. I think we've decided to try and build a contender & our front office and coaching reflect and support that decision. I'm not married to any one approach. If we think this group can grow and form the nucleus of a contender (whether as active players or trading pieces) I'm all for it. If this group starts to struggle as the league catches up to us and management decides to trade Bledsoe and a few others then I'm fine with that too.

Personally, I think Eric is the real deal and I think the Front Office believes it too and now it's just a matter of surrounding him with the right pieces. Somewhere along the line we'll need to add a superstar to the mix (another superstar-Bledsoe is on his way) but this is a journey that doesn't end with the 2014 draft. I don't think it's the end of the world if we're not drafting in the top 5.

Steve

 

[BC867]

Somewhere along the line we'll need to add a superstar to the mix.

That's what I meant by heavy hitter.

Or maybe a cleanup hitter to bat behind Paul Goldschmidt. Both the Suns and D'backs could use one.

With the draft picks the Suns have accumulated, I think they have the better chance.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's what I meant by heavy hitter.

Or maybe a cleanup hitter to bat behind Paul Goldschmidt. Both the Suns and D'backs could use one.

With the draft picks the Suns have accumulated, I think they have the better chance.

I do too, even if we make the playoffs this season. This draft is loaded but it's not just at the top. Someone like Isaiah Austin, for example, could easily fall to the mid-teens and he has the potential to be a superstar. I have no idea what position he'll play in the pros and I worry that he has the hips of a prepubescent boy and the shoulders of that boy's twin sister but there's no denying his talent.

Steve

 

[ProdigalSun]

he has the hips of a prepubescent boy and the shoulders of that boy's twin sister but there's no denying his talent.

Steve

That's a great visual thanks...makes me think of Steve Urkel

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's a great visual thanks...makes me think of Steve Urkel

Did I do that<<<in best Urkel voice>>>?

Steve (not The Urkel)

 

[carrrnuttt]

We'd be lucky to get Urkel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGdQ4HhyojY

 

[Phrazbit]

It might be time to find another way. Getting a top 5 pick might just not be in the cards for the Suns.

I posted this elsewhere. I thought I might repeat it here.

The Lakers have 5 championships without drafting any of their top players in the top 5.
The Dallas Mavericks have 1.
The Detroit Pistons have 1.
The Boston Celtics have 1.

You can get a top 5 type of player through free agency or trade. 8 of the last 20 champions say so.

Consider this. In the last 15 years (seems like a long nba career number) only two teams that had a top 5 pick in that time have won an NBA championship--Miami and Boston. Of those two teams, only 1 player has had an significant role in winning that championship--Dwayne Wade. Miami did draft Michael Beasley #2 but sold him off for nothing so they could sign free agents. Boston drafted Jeff Green, whose role in Boston's championship was being traded for Ray Allen.

The overwhelming, VAST majority of teams with top 5 picks during that period are still mired in futility. The point is not that you have to have a top 5 pick. You have to find a way to get a top 5 talent type of player. Teams that have won championships in the last 15 years have traded for them or signed them as free agents much, much more often than draft them.

Championship teams that have drafted their franchise player in the top 5 over the last couple of decades: San Antonio (Duncan, Robinson), Miami (Dwayne Wade, but still needed to get an equal or better player through draft or free agency), Chicago Bulls (Jordan, Pippen). That's all. I guess we could go back earlier, but BJ (before Jordan) is just a different era.

I'm not trying to say the Suns should try to force this seemingly talented bunch to lose. But your list of finals winners without a top 5 pick isnt quite fair. The Lakers won 3 titles with Shaq (a #1 pick they landed in free agency) leading the way. Shaq went to LA because he thought he was going to be a rapper/actor/basketball player. So barring some MVP caliber player wanting to expand his golf game its going to be hard to replicate that situation.

And the Celtics actually DID use a top 5 pick to build their 2008 title winner. They had the 5th pick in that draft (Jeff Green, ironically a Celtic now) and traded it for Ray Allen.

Also, the Pistons traded Grant Hill (a #3 pick) to Orlando for Chucky Atkins and Ben Wallace, who was the DPOY when the Pistons won the title.

Its not impossible to win without a top pick being somewhere in the mix, but in most champions it plays a major part. We have the parts in cap space and picks to make a deal for an elite player though, so we might be able to go a road less traveled.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not trying to say the Suns should try to force this seemingly talented bunch to lose. But your list of finals winners without a top 5 pick isnt quite fair. The Lakers won 3 titles with Shaq (a #1 pick they landed in free agency) leading the way. Shaq went to LA because he thought he was going to be a rapper/actor/basketball player. So barring some MVP caliber player wanting to expand his golf game its going to be hard to replicate that situation.

And the Celtics actually DID use a top 5 pick to build their 2008 title winner. They had the 5th pick in that draft (Jeff Green, ironically a Celtic now) and traded it for Ray Allen.

Also, the Pistons traded Grant Hill (a #3 pick) to Orlando for Chucky Atkins and Ben Wallace, who was the DPOY when the Pistons won the title.

Its not impossible to win without a top pick being somewhere in the mix, but in most champions it plays a major part. We have the parts in cap space and picks to make a deal for an elite player though, so we might be able to go a road less traveled.

But that is my point. You can get players in free agency. Houston did, Miami did. Phoenix is clearly on the same level as Houston and Miami as far as potential free agent markets.

I did mention that Green was traded for Allen, but that is the point too. You can trade picks for great players and it doesn't HAVE to be a top 5 pick to do it. Allen was 32 years old and eleven years in the league at that time. He was playing well, but was a final piece, not a building block piece, for a championship team. It is much easier to trade for players that are older but can put you over the top. That type of deal is possible here too, when the time comes.

Ben Wallace was an undrafted player that was starting to show signs of being good in Orlando, but no one EVER thought he was capable of being a DPOY level (He was only averaging something like 5 pts, 8 boards and a 1.5 blocks a game in Orlando. I can't remember exactly). Grant Hill was leaving and Detroit was just trying to get something in return. When he blossomed in Detroit, it was similar to the way that Plumlee is blossoming here. Wallace could have been had for less than Grant Hill that year, its just that Detroit was over a barrell.

I think the comparisons are legit. But it sounds like we are pretty much in agreement anyway. I am just a little more optimistic than you are.