What caused this loss is correctable-----

Catfish

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On the day of BA's arrival here in the valley after his hire, he proclaimed, "Cardinals will not cause Cardinals to lose". But that is precisely what happened on Sunday in St. Louis. And no-----it was not just because of one player. There were mistakes enough, by coaches as well as players, to go around.

In his Monday presser, Coach Bruce Arians admitted as much, but he also alluded to the fact that there were fixes for most of what led to the loss.

Momentum is a crucial factor in any game, but especially on the road. Several things occurred which caused the momentum, (which had been gained by Palmer completing passes to Fitz, Floyd, Roberts, etc); (and from a running game established by Mendenhall which kept the Rams honest); to slowly shift as the game progressed. This process began late in the second period, with the miss of a 50 yard field goal by Feely.

That miss resulted in a field position shift, which ultimately led to a Rams score before the half. Then it was compounded by a huge mental mistake by Javier Arenas immediately after the half, when he ran a high and deep kick-off out of the end zone resulting in getting stuffed near the five yard line. Those two plays gave away all the momentum the Cards had compiled, just when it should have been secured for us to put the hammer down on the Rams. We missed a score before the half, and gave away possession and field position in two plays.

Still, some great play got it back, along with an 11 point lead going into the 4th quarter. Then, inexplicably, BA took his foot off the gas and he began attempting to run the clock. This, for Cardinal's fans is an almost sure fire hint that we are about to give the game away.

This worked OK so long as Mendenhall was fresh, but as soon as he was gassed, in came Alphonso Smith, who promptly ran as fast as he could to where the play was designed to go, right into the heart of the defense. Arians, in his presser said that Ellington had earned the right to play. But by playing Smith as the change of pace back instead of Ellington, there was virtually no chance of finding a hole to squeak through. During this game, Smith ran directly into the pile on at least 4 occasions, when there was a hole slightly to one side or the other of where the play was designed to go. He has no vision for free space to run in, and was perhaps not the best choice to back up Mendenhall as a change of pace back this game. In any event our running was finished for the day.

Compounding that, was the third down wheel play where we threw to Ellington out of the backfield. This seemed to me to be another poor choice of play selection, given the day that our receivers had already achieved. I will be surprised if, (in the future), we see BA take his foot off the gas, and attempt to hold a lead instead of keeping up the momentum.

Yes, there was Levi, giving up the sacks, but there was also room for Palmer to step forward into the pocket on at least two of the three sacks, where Levi had run Quinn around the back side of the pocket. That is something that Palmer needs to be made aware of. Failure to step up into a protected pocket, while taking a sack deep, is a terrible mistake on his part. Then too, Arians said that Levi resorted back to old, (and bad), technique habits during this game. That can't happen either, but both causes are fixable, and need to be addressed heavily and often in practice.

Perhaps one of the greatest mistakes of this game, was only allowing our best pass rusher, John Abraham, to see the field for only 20 plays during the game. He needs to be in the mix, (especially off the edge), any time a pass play is obvious, not just on third and long. By the same token, trying to rush with Campbell as a DE is like having the 'Human Slug' negotiate contracts. The pace is simply not conducive to productivity. That is also correctable.

In any event, much of what caused this loss is correctable. Also there was much good to take note of that the Cards achieved. All in all, we let one get away, but let us see what, (if any), changes come next week against Detroit.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Yes, but do they have what is needed to make said corrections.
 

Cheesebeef

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On the day of BA's arrival here in the valley after his hire, he proclaimed, "Cardinals will not cause Cardinals to lose". But that is precisely what happened on Sunday in St. Louis. And no-----it was not just because of one player. There were mistakes enough, by coaches as well as players, to go around.

In his Monday presser, Coach Bruce Arians admitted as much, but he also alluded to the fact that there were fixes for most of what led to the loss.

Momentum is a crucial factor in any game, but especially on the road. Several things occurred which caused the momentum, (which had been gained by Palmer completing passes to Fitz, Floyd, Roberts, etc); (and from a running game established by Mendenhall which kept the Rams honest); to slowly shift as the game progressed. This process began late in the second period, with the miss of a 50 yard field goal by Feely.

That miss resulted in a field position shift, which ultimately led to a Rams score before the half.

wha? Feely's kick was the last play of the half, thus field position didn't shift and the Rams did not score after his missed kick before the half.


Yes, there was Levi, giving up the sacks, but there was also room for Palmer to step forward into the pocket on at least two of the three sacks, where Levi had run Quinn around the back side of the pocket. That is something that Palmer needs to be made aware of. Failure to step up into a protected pocket, while taking a sack deep, is a terrible mistake on his part. Then too, Arians said that Levi resorted back to old, (and bad), technique habits during this game. That can't happen either, but both causes are fixable, and need to be addressed heavily and often in practice.

Levi's been in the league 7 years and Palmer's been in the league ten years. To think their issues are fixable (Levi not sucking out loud and Palmer gaining good pocket presence) at this point in their careers, especially Levi, is hoping against hope IMO. Maybe Palmer can step up every once in a while, but it's been a knock on him his entire career that he takes a lot of sacks and Levi isn't going to magically get better just because Arians says he can.

as far as the pass rush, I do hope more of Abraham will help and I do think Washington will help there, but that's not going to be ultimately "correctable" until we actually get an OLB or DE who just murders QBs.

and i agree that the less of Alfonso Smith, the better.
 

JC_AZ

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Is Ryan Williams completely out of the mix? Not even suited up?
 

Buckybird

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I disagree. The 2 reasons the Big Red lost on Sunday were #75 & our awesome DC.

1) Levi's issues aren't fixable...unless he's on the pine. 6 years of the same broken record says so.

2) the DC. Bowels has had a so-so track record every stop hes been, including failure as a DC twice now...is the third time the charm? I don't think so, given what I saw last Sunday & 4 preseason games before that. No pass rush, to much m2m coverage & torched by Sam Bradford. Yes the same Bradford who completed like 15 passes in 2 games last year against the Cards. I'm unimpressed.
 

BigRedRage

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Is Ryan Williams completely out of the mix? Not even suited up?
Last week that was the case. Unless BA suddenly decides he is more helpful than the backs who play special teams then he wont sniff the field.
 

AzStevenCal

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Last week that was the case. Unless BA suddenly decides he is more helpful than the backs who play special teams then he wont sniff the field.

Unless he supplants the starter, you're right, special teams is keeping him off the active roster. But special teams or not, for the week or two Ryan is healthy, I'd rather see him on the field than Smith. If Alphonso accidentally finds the hole he can get us some yards but he'd need a top of the line GPS just to get in the vicinity of it.

Steve
 

BigRedRage

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Unless he supplants the starter, you're right, special teams is keeping him off the active roster. But special teams or not, for the week or two Ryan is healthy, I'd rather see him on the field than Smith. If Alphonso accidentally finds the hole he can get us some yards but he'd need a top of the line GPS just to get in the vicinity of it.

Steve


I hate the idea of RW being in street clothes while fonzo gets ten carries as well.

Fonzo is in the traditional crappy cardinals RB line of slam into your OL and fall down.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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wha? Feely's kick was the last play of the half, thus field position didn't shift and the Rams did not score after his missed kick before the half.




Levi's been in the league 7 years and Palmer's been in the league ten years. To think their issues are fixable (Levi not sucking out loud and Palmer gaining good pocket presence) at this point in their careers, especially Levi, is hoping against hope IMO. Maybe Palmer can step up every once in a while, but it's been a knock on him his entire career that he takes a lot of sacks and Levi isn't going to magically get better just because Arians says he can.

as far as the pass rush, I do hope more of Abraham will help and I do think Washington will help there, but that's not going to be ultimately "correctable" until we actually get an OLB or DE who just murders QBs.

and i agree that the less of Alfonso Smith, the better.
Good pick-up on the Feely miss as I was about to make the same comment.

Palmer is not known for taking a lot of sacks though as he has had only 1 season in his career with more than 26. If anything he might be known as a QB that will turn the ball over trying to avoid the sack.
 
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Catfish

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I disagree. The 2 reasons the Big Red lost on Sunday were #75 & our awesome DC.

1) Levi's issues aren't fixable...unless he's on the pine. 6 years of the same broken record says so.

2) the DC. Bowels has had a so-so track record every stop hes been, including failure as a DC twice now...is the third time the charm? I don't think so, given what I saw last Sunday & 4 preseason games before that. No pass rush, to much m2m coverage & torched by Sam Bradford. Yes the same Bradford who completed like 15 passes in 2 games last year against the Cards. I'm unimpressed.

1) While you have a lot of history agreeing with you on this point, you can't KNOW that his issues are not fixable.

1) Its hard get a pass rush on the opponent when your best edge rusher is sitting on the bench. That could change next Sunday.
 

Cheesebeef

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1) While you have a lot of history agreeing with you on this point, you can't KNOW that his issues are not fixable.

come on. after 7 years Levi's awfulness is a KNOWN quantity. he might not get beat like a drum every week like he did this last week (against a merely ok pass-rusher who feasts off our atrocious O-line play), but to borrow Dennis Green's line: He is who we thought he is!
 

AzStevenCal

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1) While you have a lot of history agreeing with you on this point, you can't KNOW that his issues are not fixable.

1) Its hard get a pass rush on the opponent when your best edge rusher is sitting on the bench. That could change next Sunday.

It shouldn't. Abraham isn't the player he used to be and putting him out there like a 26 year old DE is going to expose him and probably wear him out far too early in the season.

Steve
 

Cheesebeef

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It shouldn't. Abraham isn't the player he used to be and putting him out there like a 26 year old DE is going to expose him and probably wear him out far too early in the season.

Steve

my fear as well.
 

PDXChris

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2) the DC. Bowels has had a so-so track record every stop hes been, including failure as a DC twice now...is the third time the charm?

Please back this up if you are keep stating this. Beside being a DC for 8 games last year, when else was he a DC. Also, his secondary was top 10 every year in Miami and he was the only good coach there, which is why he was made the Interm Coach, even over their DC at the time.

None of know what Bowles is yet, but you appear to be hoping he fails so much so that you are making things up.
 
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Osbern61

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Still, some great play got it back, along with an 11 point lead going into the 4th quarter. Then, inexplicably, BA took his foot off the gas and he began attempting to run the clock. This, for Cardinal's fans is an almost sure fire hint that we are about to give the game away.

I don't think BA ever really tried to run the clock. The Rams scored a TD on the possession following our final TD and closed the gap to within 3 points with about 13 minutes left. Palmer fumbled on our next series and the game was tied within 3 minutes, so there really was never an occassion to run out the clock.
 

MadCardDisease

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Perhaps one of the greatest mistakes of this game, was only allowing our best pass rusher, John Abraham, to see the field for only 20 plays during the game. He needs to be in the mix, (especially off the edge), any time a pass play is obvious, not just on third and long. By the same token, trying to rush with Campbell as a DE is like having the 'Human Slug' negotiate contracts. The pace is simply not conducive to productivity. That is also correctable.

In any event, much of what caused this loss is correctable. Also there was much good to take note of that the Cards achieved. All in all, we let one get away, but let us see what, (if any), changes come next week against Detroit.

I don't think the pass rush is correctable at this point. It is what it is and for now the team doesn't have a legit pass rusher capable of creating a consistant pass rush. This means the Cardinals will have to be agressive and bring 5-6 players to pressure the passer. Which ultimately will mean they will eventually give up big plays.

Abramham is too old to get it done by himself. He needs to take advantage of one on one matchups to be effective at this point in his career. Even then he is at his best when he is mismatched against a RB which won't happen often.
 

Totally_Red

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But by playing Smith as the change of pace back instead of Ellington, there was virtually no chance of finding a hole to squeak through. During this game, Smith ran directly into the pile on at least 4 occasions, when there was a hole slightly to one side or the other of where the play was designed to go. He has no vision for free space to run in, and was perhaps not the best choice to back up Mendenhall as a change of pace back this game. In any event our running was finished for the day.

Sure seems like Ryan Williams and/or Andre Ellington would have been better choices as the #2 back behind Mendenhall. This staff seems to really like Fonzie.

I wonder if it was Smith that B.A. was referring to when he said 'the running back went out on their route too soon instead of chipping Quinn to help Levi.
 
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I agree with your allegation. Just to make a point however, having Abraham on the bench for all but 20 snaps is just as fruitless as not addressing this issue in the off season. No matter his age, he is in good enough physical condition to play at least 10 more snaps. That may have made a big difference.
 

Duckjake

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Good pick-up on the Feely miss as I was about to make the same comment.

Palmer is not known for taking a lot of sacks though as he has had only 1 season in his career with more than 26. If anything he might be known as a QB that will turn the ball over trying to avoid the sack.

Exactly. Palmers sack % is low. Nothing compared to Kolb's 10+%. Good pick up on the turnovers as that is something we were talking about during pre season as a concern for us and something you find sometimes with veteran QBs.
Rather than take a sack they try to force a throw or more often try to get the ball out and get hit while throwing which results in a ball up for grabs.
 

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