What Do You Fellas Expect?

[Gee!]

Some seem mad we lost to a very good team tonite by a couple points. Sprewell just got hot beyond the arc. That winning streak was bound to be broken.

All I see in here is people trying to trade away our players, figuring out the legistics of a trade and what draft pick we will have next next. Then when we lose a game everybody upset. WTF?

I have no clue whats going on in this forum. I know what I see on the court. A good team that is hot early. Will they be hot late in the season? Who knows. Prolly why the crowds aint showing up. That and the image the NBA has now a days.

I remeber as a kid I used to watch the NBA religiously. I was even privileged to sit on the Suns bench during a Pistons game in the early 80's. I still even have my Cotton Express towel from the late 80's.

Guess what Im saying is this. One game wont define a season. We dont need any trades. We are in the here and now, not next years draft. Can we just enjoy this season?

 

[Gaddabout]

A few points to keep in mind:

1. For those that are critical, WE'VE SEEN THIS ALL BEFORE. Small ball isn't something new, though you'd think D'Antoni invented the damn scheme the way people talk this year.

2. We've seen rampantly successful small teams get their hats handed to them in the playoffs for years.

3. If you've ever watched your 55+ win team choke multiple times in game 7 of the WC finals or NBA finals because you were short a few key defensive rebounds or you had one horrible matchup at the 5, you learn to be highly critical of small ball. I once hated Portland so much I was damn near homicidal. I had nightmares about Trailblazers come playoff time.

4. Most of the criticism is to offset the rose-colored glasses so many others are wearing. It's not that we want to be pessimists, but I, for one, can't take the blind hope so many have because of the start to the season. Been there, done that. We want to be REALISTIC, be around others that are REALISTIC. If the impossible happens, great, it will be a nice surprise. But I'm not going to get my heart set on something based on a scheme I already know has been tried and found very wanting. There's nothing intrinsically different about this small Suns team and the dozens of others I've watched rip my heart out over the years when it counted.

Enjoy the season? Sure. But I'll do it with my self-respect in tact, thank you.

 

[George O'Brien]

The game was upsetting because it feels like the Suns could have won if D'Antoni had not been so stubborn about playing a lineup that did not matchup well. I haven't seen a lot of calls to trade JJ just because he had an off night. Just that benching Hunter when he was contributing and going small when it wasn't working seems like a blunder.

None of this is a new topic. I for one have been concerned since the game of the season when they destroyed the Hawks but got killed on the boards. This lineup works against weaker teams, but they need to be able to play big when the situation requires. Right now they either can't or won't.

This teams is really close to being a top team, but they aren't there yet and won't if they can't play big when necessary.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Some seem mad we lost to a very good team tonite by a couple points. Sprewell just got hot beyond the arc. That winning streak was bound to be broken.

All I see in here is people trying to trade away our players, figuring out the legistics of a trade and what draft pick we will have next next. Then when we lose a game everybody upset. WTF?

I have no clue whats going on in this forum. I know what I see on the court. A good team that is hot early. Will they be hot late in the season? Who knows. Prolly why the crowds aint showing up. That and the image the NBA has now a days.

I remeber as a kid I used to watch the NBA religiously. I was even privileged to sit on the Suns bench during a Pistons game in the early 80's. I still even have my Cotton Express towel from the late 80's.

Guess what Im saying is this. One game wont define a season. We dont need any trades. We are in the here and now, not next years draft. Can we just enjoy this season?

I think everyone here is enjoying the season immensely, but to say that we don't have any issues to discuss is wrong. This is the first real challenge the Suns faced this year, and needless to say, they have quite a bit of work to do. I take immense pleasure in watching the Suns beat up on the scrubs of the league, I just think their sights should be set on much loftier goals; mainly the development of a team that can compete with the Minnesotas and San Antonio's of the world. If we can beat those teams, we can win the entire thing. The only clear weakness in the team last night was the rebounding, it absolutely killed us. Hopefully, through playing Hunter or through trade, we can shore up that weakness. We'll be extremely entertaining no matter what this year, but I think with a few tweaks, this team can compete for a title.

 

[Billythekid]

It was one game in which we lost to a legit contender by a few points. We played like crap and were still there. Thats a good sign.

I think the rebounding issue sort of falls on Amare. He's our biggest guy and should be gobbling them up. Shawn is doing his part and SO much more for an undersized 4 on the boards.

Just gotta learn from it and move on to the next one.

 

[Yuma]

I saw D'Antoni not keep Steven Hunter in the game after he gave Garnette fits! C'mon!! Amare and Hunter can be on the court at the same time! If that means JJ or Q has to sit, so be it! Also, Jake has been hustling more, but Hunter brings in an element that fires up the other 4 guys on defense. Why he is second in the rotation behind Jake is unfathomable to me. Also, Vroman, Lampe, Carbarkapra, are rotting on the bench. They have to find a way to develop these guys. a few minutes a game will help our team when injuries and match ups in the playoffs warrant some bigger guys off the bench. I have enjoyed the win streak, but I do see problems with how things are being run.

I remember when Westphal used to win with two squads. he would literally have two five man teams that played each night. Some nights the second team played better than the starters. Their goal was to maintain the lead while the starters rested. Sometimes in the fourth quarter the starters never made it back in as the second team widened the lead.

 

[JS22]

I saw D'Antoni not keep Steven Hunter in the game after he gave Garnette fits! C'mon!! Amare and Hunter can be on the court at the same time! If that means JJ or Q has to sit, so be it! Also, Jake has been hustling more, but Hunter brings in an element that fires up the other 4 guys on defense. Why he is second in the rotation behind Jake is unfathomable to me. Also, Vroman, Lampe, Carbarkapra, are rotting on the bench. They have to find a way to develop these guys. a few minutes a game will help our team when injuries and match ups in the playoffs warrant some bigger guys off the bench. I have enjoyed the win streak, but I do see problems with how things are being run.

I remember when Westphal used to win with two squads. he would literally have two five man teams that played each night. Some nights the second team played better than the starters. Their goal was to maintain the lead while the starters rested. Sometimes in the fourth quarter the starters never made it back in as the second team widened the lead.

Barbosa
Jacobsen
Richardson
Lampe
Hunter

That's a decent enough second lineup.

 

[Gee!]

I think everyone here is enjoying the season immensely, but to say that we don't have any issues to discuss is wrong. This is the first real challenge the Suns faced this year, and needless to say, they have quite a bit of work to do. I take immense pleasure in watching the Suns beat up on the scrubs of the league, I just think their sights should be set on much loftier goals; mainly the development of a team that can compete with the Minnesotas and San Antonio's of the world. If we can beat those teams, we can win the entire thing. The only clear weakness in the team last night was the rebounding, it absolutely killed us. Hopefully, through playing Hunter or through trade, we can shore up that weakness. We'll be extremely entertaining no matter what this year, but I think with a few tweaks, this team can compete for a title.

Quit thoughts. Who do you expect to come in here and change things drastically mid-season? I cant think of anyone. What big man that isnt a superstar does any foresee coming here? Should we break up the core of this team for height? A tall person that sucks? The bargaining areement in place now assures no blockbusters happen. Should we foresake the team just cuz its seems good? Or stay with what is going good? Chemistry. And why are Suns fans talking 2005 draft? Have we thrown out this season already? Let it play out. Will we win the championship? God I hope so. Realistically, prolly not. Amare is an animal and most likely has one more year before he dominates the league. With the trades of Kidd and Shaq to the East of course we have a far better chance to win it all. Meaning the west is no longer dominant. I would just like to enjoy an ARIZONA team have success. No matter what sport it is or for how long, seeing as though we have beeen in a bad funk for a couple years. Thats what I meant.

 

[BC867]

No matter what sport it is or for how long, seeing as though we have beeen in a bad funk for a couple years. Thats what I meant.

A funk isn't something that happens TO a team, Gee. With the exception of a freak injury, it's the result of management's doing.

Our start against weaker teams, and improvement over last year, is great to be part of. But Mike D' has to look past the end of his nose. Don'tcha, think?

We have four potential Centers on our active roster. Two of them sit, and two of them back up a Power Forward, without a set pattern. Do any of them have set roles?

When it comes time for the Centers to be pressed into action, it'll be like training camp all over again . . . while competing against teams who have a set rotation and are better equipped to cover 1- foul trouble; 2-injuries; and 3-playoff type basketball.

Also does it make sense to tie up roster spots with players who share one position . . . and get very little use?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Barbosa
Jacobsen
Richardson
Lampe
Hunter

That's a decent enough second lineup.

but is it really? w/ how little they play, we don't really know if they're any good or not. i think we've been fooling ourselves into thinking we have a bench. if d'antoni ain't playing them i have to assume they stink, 'cuz otherwise i'm forced to think d'antoni is an idiot. i hope we don't have an idiot as a coach.

 

[PhxGametime]

Well I wasn't feeling too good yesterday and I didn't get to read a lot of the posts but I like to talk about NBA Draft all year regardless of record, I don't think anybody is giving up on season yet. The discussions on: Draft, FA, Trades are part of the game... I don't mind those (some might) and I don't agree with everyone on board everytime about who on team or why, I do like to hear other's opinions though.

As far as criticism, I am homer and I've been homer but...

"We want to be REALISTIC, be around others that are REALISTIC."

I do know, not everyone believes what I believe but I never got the hint, that others didn't want to be around me 78-4

I enjoy the smarter posters that aren't homers but have really thoughtful things to say (some might say negative) posts every bit as much as the GM's on board, the optimism and pessimism, newbie's, other teams fans, etc.

As far as Trades (not picking on you Gee!) - I and I'm sure others want to keep core but Suns do have many decent bench options that aren't exactly being used that can be decent Trade pieces via a Trade...

with Bulls Draft and Milos Vujanic, Suns property - those 2 pieces are valuable and can be packaged with role player(s)... (Jacobsen, Voskuhl, Cabarkapa, and/or Lampe) to get a decent F/C. I'm not sure I'd Trade Lampe but those pieces could land Dalembert, Nene, T Chandler, Curry, others, etc. - that are on market right now. IMO Suns don't need a superstar but a F/C player in that rank. Suns have 1 of the best records now and with a DECENT F/C that will give Amare Stoudemire some help and fit in with the big 6 - Suns could contend (if not with current roster).

 

[elindholm]

with Bulls Draft and Milos Vujanic, Suns property - those 2 pieces are valuable

Vujanic has almost no trade value at all. Everyone outside of a few people on this board has figured out that he's probably never going to play in the NBA.

 

[PhxGametime]

I don't read many articles outside of this board but from what I've read - he wants a fair amount of minutes and this summer with Suns signing Steve Nash and Leandro Barbosa on roster... he wasn't going to get it here? His contract ends after this year, I haven't read that he's uninterested in coming to NBA?

Nets (if Kidd is Traded), Sixers (if Iverson is moved back to SG), Indiana, Hawks, Bobcats, Rockets, Trail Blazers (only Telfair will probably be back and I'm not sure how many minutes he will command or is actually getting this year), Warriors, and Lakers could be options... I really don't know who's a FA, so there could be another team that needs a PG. There could be Trades with teams then needing a PG, as well...


I've seen him play and if teams are wasting Draft Picks for a raw player with potential to sit for years, I'm sure 1 team would gamble on him? He's ready to play now IMO... I'm not sure how much value he has to all GM's but he is more talented than only but 5-7 PG's in College (I doubt all enter Draft).

LOL what are you always talking about Beckett? Other than Sportscards price guides, I'm lost

 

[George O'Brien]

Considering his contract situation, it was highly unlikely Vujanic was going to be signed last summer, but I agree that he is simply not going to generate enough in trade to be worth bothering with.

I only saw him play a few games. I think he can play in the NBA, but strictly as a shooter off the bench. He's not really a true point guard and not a great defender. But he would fit into the Suns pace really well.

 

[Joe Mama]

I only saw him play a few games. I think he can play in the NBA, but strictly as a shooter off the bench. He's not really a true point guard and not a great defender. But he would fit into the Suns pace really well.

I've got to disagree, George. I've seen him play quite a bit preparing a video of his games for a couple members of the Board, but I never got around to sending it... what a jerk I am. He isn't a distributor like Steve Nash or Jason Kidd, but I would say he is twice the point guard Barbosa is. I would also say that if a team wanted him to concentrate on moving the ball he is capable of generating a good number of assists.

Defensively he might be worse than Steve Nash. Actually I don't think Nash's defense has been nearly as atrocious as I expected it would be. In fact much of the time he's played better defense than Barbosa. He's just a smarter player at this point.

I don't think there would be any problem getting Vujanic to push the ball, and he is very good at it.

All that said, I basically agree with Eric. Vujanic's trade value is next to nothing at this point. The Chicago draft pick, CJ, Lampe, and JJ (it would have to be a real blockbuster where the Suns feel they will not be able to re-sign him at a reasonable salary) are the real trade commodities.

Lastly, I don't see any problem in discussing the draft at any time of the year. Nobody here is talking about it because they feel the season is over already. We talk about it because it is something to talk about, and it's interesting to some people. Trades are the same way. They are an important part to building a team in the NBA. It's something else that is interesting to discuss, and frankly there is a lot less crazy trade talk on this message board than the other Phoenix Suns message boards I've seen. Friday night and Saturday morning there were several new posters talking about how much they enjoy reading the posts on this message board. I think things are going very well around here.

Joe Mama

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Quit thoughts. Who do you expect to come in here and change things drastically mid-season? I cant think of anyone. What big man that isnt a superstar does any foresee coming here? Should we break up the core of this team for height? A tall person that sucks? The bargaining areement in place now assures no blockbusters happen. Should we foresake the team just cuz its seems good? Or stay with what is going good? Chemistry. And why are Suns fans talking 2005 draft? Have we thrown out this season already? Let it play out. Will we win the championship? God I hope so. Realistically, prolly not. Amare is an animal and most likely has one more year before he dominates the league. With the trades of Kidd and Shaq to the East of course we have a far better chance to win it all. Meaning the west is no longer dominant. I would just like to enjoy an ARIZONA team have success. No matter what sport it is or for how long, seeing as though we have beeen in a bad funk for a couple years. Thats what I meant.

Who do I expect to come here and change things drastically? Well we have some excellent pieces to put together a trade if we want. I am not on the side of that position at this point, because I would like to see what Stephen Hunter can do with some consistent playing time. If we can trade the Chicago pick and a loose piece, or decide we won't resign JJ, and include him in a trade, we can probably acquire a decent big man.

We don't need a star at the center position, just someone who will rebound, block some shots, and run the floor. I fear that when we go against the elites of the NBA, such as the Spurs and the T-Wolves, we will lose due to our lack of size and interior presence. If you don't recognize these as major problems, come back to me playoff time, when we run the small ball lineup and lose to a team like Minnesota or SA. I just fear if we don't develop a guy like Hunter, and don't make a trade, this will be what happens. I guess we'll see......

 

[StatsAmare]

I agree with you 100% chris. Instead of trading for a 5, why don't we see what Hunter can do. That can only happen if he gets minutes. I think , if small ball isn't working with a elite team, give Hunter jacobsens 20 min. People say we don't need a premire 5, just "someone to run with us, block some shots , and rebound". Hmmmm.... Sounds to me like we already have him.........

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree with you 100% chris. Instead of trading for a 5, why don't we see what Hunter can do. That can only happen if he gets minutes. I think , if small ball isn't working with a elite team, give Hunter jacobsens 20 min. People say we don't need a premire 5, just "someone to run with us, block some shots , and rebound". Hmmmm.... Sounds to me like we already have him.........

Trading for a 4 that is a rebounder and defender would not be a bad option. I would really have no problem running a 1-2-3-4-4 lineup with one of the 4's as our center. Some times the 1-2-2-3-4 (actually, its more of a 1-3-3-3-4) line up has rebounding problems.

 

[F-Dog]

3. If you've ever watched your 55+ win team choke multiple times in game 7 of the WC finals or NBA finals because you were short a few key defensive rebounds or you had one horrible matchup at the 5, you learn to be highly critical of small ball. I once hated Portland so much I was damn near homicidal. I had nightmares about Trailblazers come playoff time.

Again, I think the real problem is that everybody's expectations have been inflated by all of the 'worthless' regular-season wins. The fact is, this team doesn't have the personnel to compete for a championship this year.

There's no doubt in my mind that the Suns have a better chance of winning a title this season with their current rotation than they would with Hunter, Voskuhl and Lampe splitting 40 mpg. (We're talking fractions of a percentage point in either case here.) The difference is that the fans blame D'Antoni now instead of JC or the centers themselves.