What Does Kyler Murray Really Want? - SI Article by Robert Klemko

[Russ Smith]

Article Jan.31st.2019


https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/a...ould-play-football-and-baseball-decision-soon

That's very common, what's less common is getting to THIS point and still not being sure. When I was in 8th grade I had journalism and one of our interviews was with a friend of mine who was clearly the best athlete in the school. QB in football then, PG in basketball, and forward in soccer. As part of the interview we talked to the PE coaches and one of them said point blank Chris is the best athlete I've ever seen at this age, his biggest issue is going to be choosing a sport to focus on. Flash forward to his senior year of HS and he was still playing soccer and football but he finally chose soccer, and wound up playing professionally for like 15 years, Europe, Mexico, played on the US World Cup team, and now does commentary for the Pac 12 network on soccer.

Most people have to make that decision when they start college, that was the case with Chris, with Murray he didn't and it appears he still really doesn't want to.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I keep on getting stuck at the "I'm playing baseball unless I am a first round pick" mentality. He was willing to play football, as long as the price is high enough. I just can't get comfortable with taking a guy with that mentality at #1, especially when he is going to have to be the face and leader of a franchise.

Round 2...I am fine with taking the risk. #1...too rich for my blood. I would rather stick with Rosen.

And I'm fine with passing on him for the same reasons, I just think he can be a new fangled QB. Listen to all the talent evaluators who have been looking at the draft for 30+ years and they mostly all say that they've never seen a prospect as talented as Murray. As fast as Vick, but 1000x the passer. Faster than Wilson, and a better passer than Wilson was coming out.

Right now, I probably mostly want Q Williams, but a part of me wants the excitement that Murray can bring.

 

[dscher]

That's very common, what's less common is getting to THIS point and still not being sure. When I was in 8th grade I had journalism and one of our interviews was with a friend of mine who was clearly the best athlete in the school. QB in football then, PG in basketball, and forward in soccer. As part of the interview we talked to the PE coaches and one of them said point blank Chris is the best athlete I've ever seen at this age, his biggest issue is going to be choosing a sport to focus on. Flash forward to his senior year of HS and he was still playing soccer and football but he finally chose soccer, and wound up playing professionally for like 15 years, Europe, Mexico, played on the US World Cup team, and now does commentary for the Pac 12 network on soccer.

Most people have to make that decision when they start college, that was the case with Chris, with Murray he didn't and it appears he still really doesn't want to.

We are just at a spot right now where this has never happened..this kid will be the first to ever be selected in the first round of two professional sports! This stuff happens in high school all the time..but at this level.. That's crazy to think about..and for a young guy like him even crazier I'm sure.. I know my head would have been spinning if I had two sports I loved and had to pick. It has to be tough on him.. this is his life hes trying to decide. So I'm gonna cut the kid and even his meddling dad a little slack.

 

[BirdDroppings]

Carson Palmer was talking about one of the things he looks at for young guys is how they handle adversity.

That to me is the biggest issue with Murray, and a very legitimate one. We don't have much bad tape of him where he was getting pounded and fought through it. He did a little with Alabama, but it's not enough.

Interestingly, I think Rosen's biggest strength may be his ability to handle adversity and based on Keim and KKs comments in their pointless pre-draft press conference, they seem to think so too.

 

[TJ]

I keep on getting stuck at the "I'm playing baseball unless I am a first round pick" mentality. He was willing to play football, as long as the price is high enough. I just can't get comfortable with taking a guy with that mentality at #1, especially when he is going to have to be the face and leader of a franchise.

Round 2...I am fine with taking the risk. #1...too rich for my blood. I would rather stick with Rosen.

And this doesn't jive with Keim's philosophy about their heart and desire for the game. If even a modicum of what we read is true, it would go against everything Keim has stood for w/r/t picking players, especially pick #1.

 

[HeHasRosen]

And this doesn't jive with Keim's philosophy about their heart and desire for the game. If even a modicum of what we read is true, it would go against everything Keim has stood for w/r/t picking players, especially pick #1.

Boom. Exactly what im thinking. QW seems like the guy for keim. Checks all his boxes

 

[BW52]

Boom. Exactly what im thinking. QW seems like the guy for keim. Checks all his boxes

I think Bosa checks the boxes also.Great work ethic and desire to improve.loves football.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I keep on getting stuck at the "I'm playing baseball unless I am a first round pick" mentality. He was willing to play football, as long as the price is high enough. I just can't get comfortable with taking a guy with that mentality at #1, especially when he is going to have to be the face and leader of a franchise.

Round 2...I am fine with taking the risk. #1...too rich for my blood. I would rather stick with Rosen.

Here’s the elements that I think you’re missing in those thoughts:

1. He risked it all by playing football last season. Yes, I’m sure he had some insurance but likely not the $4-5M guaranteed by the A’s. So what does that tell you? To me it says two things: that he really loves football to risk that $$$ and that he had some supreme confidence in his ability to succeed.
2. This isn’t just a kid choosing which sport he wants to play. This is making a decision that will likely financially impact the rest of his, and maybe even future generations, lives. So of course it’s going to be driven by baseball $$$ if he doesn’t have a first round guaranteed salary of million$ or first round football millions. Faulting the kid for being honest about a business decision - and yes this is business - is absurd. The only reason we don’t hear about this from Bosa, Quinnen, or anyone else is because they’re not special enough to have the options Murray has.

All that said, this does factor in among all the other elements that decision makers have taken consider with Murray. But as someone else said earlier, if Murray takes a shot at football it will probably be at least two years of trying before he’s willing to sacrifice the $$$$ and try baseball. At that point he likely won’t be a hot commodity in baseball any longer and if he’s truly looking to baseball it’s because he’s failed at football so who cares if he leaves?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yep - this quote from the NBC article in particular caught me:

__________
Florio asked Murray if he’ll just wait to see where he’s drafted in the NFL before choosing before the two sports. Murray responded with a dose of reality.

“Well, see, I don’t think it’s that easy,” he said. “The A’s organization has been nothing but phenomenal to me through this whole process. I wouldn’t want to be with anyone else, because the way they’ve handled this whole situation has been crazy, you know, you almost wouldn’t believe it. …

“I feel like everyone would do this if, you know, let’s see where I get drafted and then if I go later, then yeah. … I don’t know if that’s possible.”

Let’s not forget, he’s also a kid with an overpowering personality of a father. I wonder how many of us full-fledged adults would handle these type questions wanting to respect the A’s who’ve been good to him, but to maximize his earning power while figuring out which sport he’s loved so much he wants to play, much less doing so when we were a kid.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Here’s the elements that I think you’re missing in those thoughts:

1. He risked it all by playing football last season. Yes, I’m sure he had some insurance but likely not the $4-5M guaranteed by the A’s. So what does that tell you? To me it says two things: that he really loves football to risk that $$$ and that he had some supreme confidence in his ability to succeed.
2. This isn’t just a kid choosing which sport he wants to play. This is making a decision that will likely financially impact the rest of his, and maybe even future generations, lives. So of course it’s going to be driven by baseball $$$ if he doesn’t have a first round guaranteed salary of million$ or first round football millions. Faulting the kid for being honest about a business decision - and yes this is business - is absurd. The only reason we don’t hear about this from Bosa, Quinnen, or anyone else is because they’re not special enough to have the options Murray has.

All that said, this does factor in among all the other elements that decision makers have taken consider with Murray. But as someone else said earlier, if Murray takes a shot at football it will probably be at least two years of trying before he’s willing to sacrifice the $$$$ and try baseball. At that point he likely won’t be a hot commodity in baseball any longer and if he’s truly looking to baseball it’s because he’s failed at football so who cares if he leaves?

My thoughts exactly, well said.

I think you are quoting me in the last line. It's a ridiculous argument to throw baseball out there because, Murray only leaves football if he is a failure at football and that point WHO CARES!

The red flags that I don't think are too big is the height/weight and desire. I just don't see it, the A's offered him $15 million and a shot at the 40 man roster. Like TJ said, that means at worst AAA. HE IS THE ONLY PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MLB WHO WAS OFFERRED THAT. It's literally never been done before. The A's had to get approval from MLB to offer that. If Murray had picked baseball, no one would be questioning this, because the A's anted up for him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And I'm fine with passing on him for the same reasons, I just think he can be a new fangled QB. Listen to all the talent evaluators who have been looking at the draft for 30+ years and they mostly all say that they've never seen a prospect as talented as Murray. As fast as Vick, but 1000x the passer. Faster than Wilson, and a better passer than Wilson was coming out.

Right now, I probably mostly want Q Williams, but a part of me wants the excitement that Murray can bring.

Yup my analytical brain wants Quinnen, but my cardinals fan wants Murray’s upside.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And this doesn't jive with Keim's philosophy about their heart and desire for the game. If even a modicum of what we read is true, it would go against everything Keim has stood for w/r/t picking players, especially pick #1.

Like Nkemdiche . . . oh, that fails that narrative.

 

[Russ Smith]

We are just at a spot right now where this has never happened..this kid will be the first to ever be selected in the first round of two professional sports! This stuff happens in high school all the time..but at this level.. That's crazy to think about..and for a young guy like him even crazier I'm sure.. I know my head would have been spinning if I had two sports I loved and had to pick. It has to be tough on him.. this is his life hes trying to decide. So I'm gonna cut the kid and even his meddling dad a little slack.

What seems odd to me is so far his baseball performance has been underwhelming, he hit 10 homers in just under 200 AB's his last year of college baseball but he's never even hit 300 and he's a very raw prospect with limited experience. Baseball in general takes longer to "get there" in his case it could be much longer because hes' so raw. And if he can't hit a curveball he could find out quickly he made the wrong choice going to baseball.

I still think he picked football because it was a no brainer, far more success, and far more money, it sounds like baseball is his favorite sport. What's interesting is if questions like this make him drop, suddenly the decision is not a no brainer, but he's already in a sense made it. First pick more than double the baseball money, what if we don't pick him and what if the Raiders don't pick him at 4? What if he's sitting there at 10 and suddenly the money isn't better?

I think that's a large reason why so many were convinced the Cards were picking him, it was the best explanation for why he dropped baseball, he had a guarantee he was going first to the Cards or the pick would be traded to someone else who'd pick him.

Fascinating decision.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My thoughts exactly, well said.

I think you are quoting me in the last line. It's a ridiculous argument to throw baseball out there because, Murray only leaves football if he is a failure at football and that point WHO CARES!

The red flags that I don't think are too big is the height/weight and desire. I just don't see it, the A's offered him $15 million and a shot at the 40 man roster. Like TJ said, that means at worst AAA. HE IS THE ONLY PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MLB WHO WAS OFFERRED THAT. It's literally never been done before. The A's had to get approval from MLB to offer that. If Murray had picked baseball, no one would be questioning this, because the A's anted up for him.

Exactly. If he’s passing that up, how can anyone question his desire for football? I mean, cmon.

 

[dscher]

There is a direct quote out there with the kid admitting he is passionate about both sports and loves them both...I'm sure he's in a position that is hard for most of us to truly appreciate. Imo.

 

[Zeno]

Like Nkemdiche . . . oh, that fails that narrative.

Wasn't one of the knocks on Nkemdiche his desire and motivation? Whether he truly loved football? He was an athletic inconsistent college player who they thought could be "coached up".

I often wonder if that is who Keim is referring to when he talks about how in the past they didn't look at love of football enough.

 

[HeHasRosen]

Here’s the elements that I think you’re missing in those thoughts:

1. He risked it all by playing football last season. Yes, I’m sure he had some insurance but likely not the $4-5M guaranteed by the A’s. So what does that tell you? To me it says two things: that he really loves football to risk that $$$ and that he had some supreme confidence in his ability to succeed.
2. This isn’t just a kid choosing which sport he wants to play. This is making a decision that will likely financially impact the rest of his, and maybe even future generations, lives. So of course it’s going to be driven by baseball $$$ if he doesn’t have a first round guaranteed salary of million$ or first round football millions. Faulting the kid for being honest about a business decision - and yes this is business - is absurd. The only reason we don’t hear about this from Bosa, Quinnen, or anyone else is because they’re not special enough to have the options Murray has.

All that said, this does factor in among all the other elements that decision makers have taken consider with Murray. But as someone else said earlier, if Murray takes a shot at football it will probably be at least two years of trying before he’s willing to sacrifice the $$$$ and try baseball. At that point he likely won’t be a hot commodity in baseball any longer and if he’s truly looking to baseball it’s because he’s failed at football so who cares if he leaves?

I dont see how this could be worth the risk at #1 ovr.

And if your last paragraph comes to fruition, we would be out 2 1st round picks, no QB, a new gm and most likely coaching staff.

But hey at least we would probably be picking at #1 again in 2021.

 

[dscher]

Exactly. If he’s passing that up, how can anyone question his desire for football? I mean, cmon.

Beaten like...

But, we all have our own opinions. And whether I agree or disagree.. I respect em.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I dont see how this could be worth the risk at #1 ovr.

And if your last paragraph comes to fruition, we would be out 2 1st round picks, no QB, a new gm and most likely coaching staff.

But hey at least we would probably be picking at #1 again in 2021.

How are we out two 1st round picks? Are we just throwing Rosen away?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Exactly. If he’s passing that up, how can anyone question his desire for football? I mean, cmon.

I'd say from my estimate, 90% of the anti-Murray handwringing is manufactured nonsense.

Kyler Murray has been his height since he was like 15, so he knows how to play around his height deficit (which is also exaggerated). Murray has a preternatural ability to avoid hits. WATCH THE FILM, it's as plain as day that Murray just doesn't take big hits. There have been numerous NFL stars over the years that had this ability, and from what I saw, Murray is among the best. He has tremendous passing mechanics, he really maximizes his natural talents which is indicative of all the coaching his father gave him from the very beginning of his football career (I'm talking Pop Warner). To me, if Kyler Murray was 6'5, no question, almost everyone on this board would be backing him up.

His desire is in question? Really? It's ridiculous. Like I said there are REAL reasons to dislike Kyler Murray, but desire? I think his lack of starts and the fact that he hasn't really handled adversity are big issues, big enough that I am comfortable passing on him.

Really one of the things that sucks the most is that there isn't a great top pick this year. Bosa is a douche and has injury concerns. Q Williams has very limited sample size and was a late bloomer. Murray hasn't demonstrated the mental makeup you need to succeed. And everyone else is a tier below and would be a reach at #1. I'd love to trade down to 4 or 6 and draft Jawan Taylor or someone else and add a buttload of picks.

 

[HeHasRosen]

Wasn't one of the knocks on Nkemdiche his desire and motivation? Whether he truly loved football? He was an athletic inconsistent college player who they thought could be "coached up".

I often wonder if that is who Keim is referring to when he talks about how in the past they didn't look at love of football enough.

Yes. Only reason we took him is because he fell so far. He was projected top 10 pick

 

[HeHasRosen]

How are we out two 1st round picks? Are we just throwing Rosen away?

If we get anything less than a 1st yes (and if murray is on the team extremely unlikely we do)

A 2nd will not be enough when you used a 1st 3rd and 5th on him

 

[Russ Smith]

Exactly. If he’s passing that up, how can anyone question his desire for football? I mean, cmon.

Because he apparently kept the offer from the A's somewhat secret. There's 2 ways to look at that, he didn't think it was anybody's business(and maybe the A's asked him to) or the one people are afraid of, he didn't want football people to know what the A's had offered because they might then doubt his commitment to football. There's this theory out there that the reason he announced he'd given up baseball for football is he has some guarantee he's going high in the NFL draft. If you look at the timeline, our season ends in December, we hire Kingsbury in January, and he commits to play football only in Feb. People are connecting the dots and thinking he was told we're probably going to pick him, and or someone else will pick him very high so the football guaranteed money tops the baseball guaranteed money.

That may not be true at all, he may have just taken that long to look at the whole situation and make a decision, but people who are concerned about his commitment to football are doing that math and coming to the conclusion he picked football because he thinks he's being picked high enough that the money will be better. He didn't make the A's offer public because he was afraid it would lower his draft value to NFL teams.

I have no idea what's true and what's not but that's the speculation out there, they were talking about it on ESPN on some draft show last night. Some teams think he hid the real A's offer because they thought if it were public, the NFL would be less convinced he was committed to football.

It's a very unusual case.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Real concerns. I still think it's worth a shot.

Yep - this is where the meetings with him really decide everything if they like Kyler (and also, after working with Rosen, does that alter their perspective?)

Please hurry draft - I'm tired

 

[dscher]

What seems odd to me is so far his baseball performance has been underwhelming, he hit 10 homers in just under 200 AB's his last year of college baseball but he's never even hit 300 and he's a very raw prospect with limited experience. Baseball in general takes longer to "get there" in his case it could be much longer because hes' so raw. And if he can't hit a curveball he could find out quickly he made the wrong choice going to baseball.

I still think he picked football because it was a no brainer, far more success, and far more money, it sounds like baseball is his favorite sport. What's interesting is if questions like this make him drop, suddenly the decision is not a no brainer, but he's already in a sense made it. First pick more than double the baseball money, what if we don't pick him and what if the Raiders don't pick him at 4? What if he's sitting there at 10 and suddenly the money isn't better?

I think that's a large reason why so many were convinced the Cards were picking him, it was the best explanation for why he dropped baseball, he had a guarantee he was going first to the Cards or the pick would be traded to someone else who'd pick him.

Fascinating decision.

Absolutely. You have to assume(I mean, you don't have to lol) .. even if you don't like the kid, that he just wouldn't have up and left all that money unless there was a pretty certain idea where he was going.. Whether that is the Cards or Raiders. Especially with the guarantees that would match or make him more immediately than what the As offered..imo