What grade would you give the Suns draft?

[tobiazz]

Marcus Williams fell so far for a reason. If the Suns don't like him I trust them. If the Suns could have moved up, as they allegedly attempted to, then I suppose it would have been for a player that they thought would help the team more than TT.

 

[arthurracoon]

If we resign TT, keep KT and JJ, and eventually resign Diaw and Barbosa, this draft was a success

 

[Nash]

Please, repeat after me. D'Antoni did not want Williams.

D'Antoni did not want Williams.

He said as much before the draft when his name was brought up. Why should he draft someone he doesn't want? Just for the sake of drafting someone? CMon, get real.

If you don't like D'Antoni's team philosophy, then let that be known.

LMAO.
where the hell did this come from? If I don't like his general philosophy, why would I be wasting my time on this board talking about the Suns all day, every day?
I see you made your point with your first line. What was the need for this? pulling random stuff out of nowhere!

But if he doesn't want a late round player, then let the man do his job.

I was hoping they'd pick Marcus when he was there for the taking at 21. Most of us in the chat room were hoping we'd pick a PG - Marcus or Sergio esp when they were available that late.

More than anything, I was wishing they'd trade up to pick someone like Thabo or Ronnie. Not picking anyone though we had 21 and 27 was annoying. Thats it.

don't worry , I will let D'Antoni do his job.

 

[JS22]

In order for their to be a choice, you have to be willing to make it. Sarver was not. Therefore, there neve was a chance they were going to go over the luxury tax. Only owners like Mark Cuban have that "luxury".

At any rate, I never was jumping off a bridge. I think if they use that money on Tim and another veteran free agent, that is more then we would have gotten out of the draft anyway.

Then what are you complaining about? The whole point tonight was to get enough to sign TT, as well as a few adequate free agents.

 

[Covert Rain]

Then what are you complaining about? The whole point tonight was to get enough to sign TT, as well as a few adequate free agents.

The purpose of this thread was to grade the 'DRAFT'. That is what I did. No players, not a good draft. This thread wasn't to debate the implications of the draft on the Suns cap.

I was never complaining. Just answering the original purpose of this thread.

 

[newfan101]

Then what are you complaining about? The whole point tonight was to get enough to sign TT, as well as a few adequate free agents.

He wasn't complaining ... I was. And the point tonight wasn't to get enough money to sign TT ... It was to sign him and stay under the luxury tax. This was not a huge blow by any stretch. I'm just tired of needing a calculator to be a fan.

 

[ARZCardinals]

A top 10 pick falls to the Suns at 21 and they drop the ball. They should have picked him up and got the cash for the 2nd pick and the rest of the draft if they so choose.

You don't let a top 10 player slide by...think about it, they could have signed him for a low salary being pick 21 for 5 years and had him locked up for little cash. Lots of talent for little cash seems smart to me.

They have to get an F for Failure to manage. Trade away next years pick, we all know they'll be in the 20's, passing up the Conn kid was flat out dumb.

 

[Chaplin]

Seriously, How can anyone give this draft anything but an F?

We traded the picks for money, plain and simple.

This is the same things the Cavs used to do and the NBA made up a rule so owners couldnt do it anymore.

Robert Saver found a way to still do it while saving face.

This was a meaningless draft for us, we should've just forfeited the picks instead of making the entire organization look like money pinching bafoons.

Wouldnt surprise me if Saver fired the entire scouting staff next to save some dollars, since we don't use them anyways.

This is now the second season we've made it deep into the playoffs, and the team made a profit, yet its so hard to send the payroll slightly over the cap and pay the damn tax.

We should make a deal. When the Suns win the championship, you won't post for the week following. What do ya say?

 

[TBaslim]

A top 10 pick falls to the Suns at 21 and they drop the ball. They should have picked him up and got the cash for the 2nd pick and the rest of the draft if they so choose.

You don't let a top 10 player slide by...think about it, they could have signed him for a low salary being pick 21 for 5 years and had him locked up for little cash. Lots of talent for little cash seems smart to me.

They have to get an F for Failure to manage. Trade away next years pick, we all know they'll be in the 20's, passing up the Conn kid was flat out dumb.

Arrgh!

This is true, IF AND ONLY IF the Suns player evaluating team saw Marcus Williams as a top 10 talent for their style of basketball.

Just a guess, but I don't think they did. Like so much else, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Just cause some mock draft sez someone is a possible lottery pick does not make them one. 20 other teams passed on the guy too.

Heck, Sacramento, which does a fair job with PGs, and went into the draft talking about backup PG, didn't draft Williams. That should tell you something.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We should make a deal. When the Suns win the championship, you won't post for the week following. What do ya say?

are you looking for some kind of confrontation here? Is this immature nonsense trying to run posters off really necessary? I mean, what's he gonna do if he's gone for a week? Start his own message board?

 

[Chaplin]

are you looking for some kind of confrontation here? Is this immature nonsense trying to run posters off really necessary? I mean, what's he gonna do if he's gone for a week? Start his own message board?

Immature nonsense? There's the pot calling the kettle black. If there's one person that can drive people from this site, it's you. Jesus, still with the message board thing?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Immature nonsense? There's the pot calling the kettle black. If there's one person that can drive people from this site, it's you. Jesus, still with the message board thing?

damn - I was hoping for one of thsoe big laughs from you again. You foiled me this time! But I'll be back! Muhahahahahahahahahahaah!

And the pot knows he's black, as opposed to kettle who preens himself around as white as an angel - now THAT'S funny to me.

 

[Chaplin]

damn - I was hoping for one of thsoe big laughs from you again. You foiled me this time! But I'll be back! Muhahahahahahahahahahaah!

And the pot knows he's black, as opposed to kettle who preens himself around as white as an angel - now THAT'S funny to me.

That makes a lot of sense, like about everything else you write.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That makes a lot of sense, like about everything else you write.

okay - for the REALLY dense. I make no qualms about my writing style, thus I can't really be the pot calling the kettle black, now can I? Wouldn't that imply that I believe I DON'T have a style that bugs people? I don't pretend to be anything I'm not, unlike someone else on this board.. is that clear enough for ya? If not... here ya go in BIG BLOCK LETTERS - I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU.

Good lord - the choice sin life - either continue this little tryst with Chap or suffer through The Perfect Man with Heather Locklear and that little skank from the Disney Channel. Choices, choice on a slow Wednesday night...

 

[Chaplin]

okay - for the REALLY dense. I make no qualms about my writing style, thus I can't really be the pot calling the kettle black, now can I? Wouldn't that imply that I believe I DON'T have a style that bugs people? I don't pretend to be anything I'm not, unlike someone else on this board.. is that clear enough for ya? If not... here ya go in BIG BLOCK LETTERS - I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU.

Good lord - the choice sin life - either continue this little tryst with Chap or suffer through The Perfect Man with Heather Locklear and that little skank from the Disney Channel. Choices, choice on a slow Wednesday night...

I'm glad you picked me.

Seriously, though, we disagree, why do you have to make it such a big production? I know we're both in the over-the-top entertainment industry, but come on!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm glad you picked me.

Seriously, though, we disagree, why do you have to make it such a big production? I know we're both in the over-the-top entertainment industry, but come on!

dude - I'm a screenwriter not an editor - OF COURSE EVERYTHING'S GONNA BE AN OVER-THE-TOP PRODUCTION! I've got no filter!

 

[Mainstreet]

... I'm just tired of needing a calculator to be a fan.

So true.

I may have to take another math class if I want to remain a Suns fan. I don't want to go back to school.

 

[Joe Mama]

Seriously, How can anyone give this draft anything but an F?

We traded the picks for money, plain and simple.

Easily, you give it an "I". That actually makes the most sense. If you insist on giving it a conventional letter grade I wouldn't say it should be an "F". They didn't like the guys left on the draft board, so they traded the picks to save around $5 million and 2-3 roster spots. Not to mention that they get Cleveland's pick next year at a much better and deeper draft.

This is the same things the Cavs used to do and the NBA made up a rule so owners couldnt do it anymore.

Robert Saver found a way to still do it while saving face.

This was a meaningless draft for us, we should've just forfeited the picks instead of making the entire organization look like money pinching bafoons.

Wouldnt surprise me if Saver fired the entire scouting staff next to save some dollars, since we don't use them anyways.

This is now the second season we've made it deep into the playoffs, and the team made a profit, yet its so hard to send the payroll slightly over the cap and pay the damn tax.

Dude, when you go so over the top like this no one can take you seriously. The Cleveland's situation was so much different I don't even know where to start in refuting that idea. The problem with those Cleveland teams was that they were bad and they were missing out on a high draft picks that were traded away before they even had a chance to decide whether they liked the players available where they would have been drafting.

I can understand the complaints about the 2004 draft. Hindsight would argue they could have traded away Cabarkapa, drafted Iguodala or someone else, and still had enough money to sign Quentin Richardson if they even wanted him at that point. That said, there are still problems with that argument. First of all we don't even know if Golden State or someone else would have taken Cabarkapa at that point because everybody was trying to save every dollar for the big free-agent market. Secondly, who knows if Q would have signed here if he had seen Iguodala on the roster.

How can we really argue with last draft (2005) trade? Without Kurt Thomas the Phoenix Suns do not get the #2 seed in the playoffs. Hell, they might not have even made the playoffs without him. I would say that was a pretty good move. In fact the only reason some of us were disappointed is that the trade was known to everybody for a couple of days because New York purposely leaked it. It just wasn't that exciting at that point.

are you looking for some kind of confrontation here? Is this immature nonsense trying to run posters off really necessary? I mean, what's he gonna do if he's gone for a week? Start his own message board?

seriously cheese and Chap. Just let it go. Cheese, at least if you're going to start this argument you could have found a better reason to do it. It's obvious you were just looking to continue a fight here. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Chap's post. Chap provides ample reason on a regular basis to argue.

Joe

 

[JWF]

this wasnt that bad after having some time to look back on it...assuming we get TT resigned.

 

[abomb]

"your team"? which team do you root for?

I root for the Lakers, but am enjoying following the rest of the league too this offseason.

Has anyone calculated, all tolled, what these moves by PHX save the team?

 

[arthurracoon]

I root for the Lakers, but am enjoying following the rest of the league too this offseason.

Has anyone calculated, all tolled, what these moves by PHX save the team?

in the newspaper today (EV Trib):

"Phoenix saved about $4 million under the tax threshold by dealing Grant ($1.8 million), who is expected to retire but will be paid by the Celtics whether he plays or not, and not paying the slotted salaries of their two draft picks (combined, about $2 million)."

"The Suns received $3 million in cash (not counted for or against the salary cap)."

"Including the money from the Portland pick and money saved against the dollar-fordollar tax threshold, the team saved in the neighborhood of $9 million, said Suns director of basketball operations David Griffin. Owner Robert Sarver has been adamant that the team will not exceed the tax moving forward."

 

[Joe Mama]

in the newspaper today (EV Trib):

"Phoenix saved about $4 million under the tax threshold by dealing Grant ($1.8 million), who is expected to retire but will be paid by the Celtics whether he plays or not, and not paying the slotted salaries of their two draft picks (combined, about $2 million)."

"The Suns received $3 million in cash (not counted for or against the salary cap)."

"Including the money from the Portland pick and money saved against the dollar-fordollar tax threshold, the team saved in the neighborhood of $9 million, said Suns director of basketball operations David Griffin. Owner Robert Sarver has been adamant that the team will not exceed the tax moving forward."

except Robert Sarver has not been "adamant" that's the team will not exceed the tax moving forward. he has said several times, including yesterday on the radio, that if he has two he will pay the tax for a great shot at a championship. I'm sure he would prefer not to pay it though.

Joe

 

[nowagimp]

I for incomplete. If this what we had to do to sign TT to an extension then it was well worth it.

I will give it an A- as a basketball move. No one at 21 or 27 was going to even help for 2-3 years and the suns need talent NOW when Nash is still productive. This move gets rid of a load, grant, helps in the signing of TT AND next years 1st round atlanta pick, which will be a much better player. This suns team without amare and KT was very competitive. As D'Antoni said, if amare were in the draft he'd be #1. So, its like we got a #1 and KT back. We still could use a backup point, but rookies almost never play an effective point guard in the NBA, so were better off trying to pick up a veteran there.

 

[arthurracoon]

except Robert Sarver has not been "adamant" that's the team will not exceed the tax moving forward. he has said several times, including yesterday on the radio, that if he has two he will pay the tax for a great shot at a championship. I'm sure he would prefer not to pay it though.

Joe

good point. I didnt notice that

 

[newfan101]

I will give it an A- as a basketball move. No one at 21 or 27 was going to even help for 2-3 years and the suns need talent NOW when Nash is still productive. This move gets rid of a load, grant, helps in the signing of TT AND next years 1st round atlanta pick, which will be a much better player. This suns team without amare and KT was very competitive. As D'Antoni said, if amare were in the draft he'd be #1. So, its like we got a #1 and KT back. We still could use a backup point, but rookies almost never play an effective point guard in the NBA, so were better off trying to pick up a veteran there.

Once again, this draft was not going to make or break this team, but I wish people would stop saying this was a good basketball move because it allows us to sign TT and/or some other free agent. We could have used both picks and still signed TT, AND still used the MLE, so it wasn't an either/or proposition. These moves simply kept us out of the luxury tax ... but that has NOTHING to do with basketball ... it's strictly a financial move, and a great one at that.

The only thing you can say that qualifies as a good BASKETBALL move is that we got a first round pick next year in a stronger draft. In that sense, the first trade to Boston was at worse a lateral move, and possibly a great move.