What happened to our first round pick of last year?

[kerouac9]

He was awful most of the year, but things were clicking for him at the end of the season to the point where he was named AFC Defensive Rookie of the Month. But he can't stay healthy which seems to be a recurring theme with guys coming out of Alabama.

It is not whether Milliner's a bust, but what you do with the 7th overall pick in the draft. Drafting that high you have the opportunity to get a game changer. The best cornerback in the draft has that potential, a guard doesn't.

That wasn't available in this particular draft. Three offensive tackles were taken in the first four picks. The pass rushers were Dion Jordan (was terrible as a rookie and then has been suspended this season), Barkevious Mingo (not even seeing 50% of the snaps for Cleveland), and Ziggy Ansah (a guy who had played football for two years).

The best options in hindsight that we could have drafted were Sheldon Richardson and Star Loutouleilei, and they were both defensive tackles.

 

[TJ]

Bobbie Massie wasn't a Top 10 pick. He was a fourth-round pick. What's the point of drafting a guy in the Top 10 if he's not going to be able to contribute immediately at a high level?



You're absolutely right that Chance Warmack and Jonathan Cooper were completely different prospects, and that's the reason we chose Cooper over Warmack. Warmack certainly struggled his rookie season. The best guard in that draft class has actually been Larry Warford.



The process that lead us to choosing Cooper was the correct one, IMO. The results have been pretty regrettable so far. It's possible that Cooper can still become the best pulling guard of his generation--which was the expectation when he was drafted. Of course, that seems less likely right now.

Obviously, the expectation is that the top 10 pick should contribute right away, but he's not. The more realistic outcome at the moment is he starts fresh year 3 and then becomes a mainstay, potentially year 2 if Larsen or Fanaika go down. If that's the outcome, I'm fine with it, and shouldn't be construed as a wasted pick.

 

[waterboy]

Cooper is definitely in BA's doghouse. When his opportunity comes he better have a heck of a game to get out of it. I sense that once BA is down on a player then he becomes invisible. "Next man up" does not allow for excuses of half effort.

 

[crisper57]

Cooper is definitely in BA's doghouse. When his opportunity comes he better have a heck of a game to get out of it. I sense that once BA is down on a player then he becomes invisible. "Next man up" does not allow for excuses of half effort.

BA was asked about his recently and he said Cooper has had 2 solid weeks of practice and "hardly any limp at all". Or something like that. I think he is working his way out of the doghouse. Now he just needs an opportunity.

 

[Chopper0080]

Bobbie Massie wasn't a Top 10 pick. He was a fourth-round pick. What's the point of drafting a guy in the Top 10 if he's not going to be able to contribute immediately at a high level?

You're absolutely right that Chance Warmack and Jonathan Cooper were completely different prospects, and that's the reason we chose Cooper over Warmack. Warmack certainly struggled his rookie season. The best guard in that draft class has actually been Larry Warford.

The process that lead us to choosing Cooper was the correct one, IMO. The results have been pretty regrettable so far. It's possible that Cooper can still become the best pulling guard of his generation--which was the expectation when he was drafted. Of course, that seems less likely right now.

I'm biased in this, but in terms of Cooper, it is very early IMO. He hasn't had the start that anyone envisioned. He has been extremely disappointing. But, I don't see any reason he can't be the player we drafted. His injury doesn't lead to long term issues. He isn't a lazy player, or at least he has never had the body type or reputation of being one. There has never been a mental hurdle mentioned. His issue is that he got injured, failed in the rehab process to push himself, and this led to him being out of shape once he has gotten healthy, negating his athletic advantage. I don't see why that can't change.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm biased in this, but in terms of Cooper, it is very early IMO. He hasn't had the start that anyone envisioned. He has been extremely disappointing. But, I don't see any reason he can't be the player we drafted. His injury doesn't lead to long term issues. He isn't a lazy player, or at least he has never had the body type or reputation of being one. There has never been a mental hurdle mentioned. His issue is that he got injured, failed in the rehab process to push himself, and this led to him being out of shape once he has gotten healthy, negating his athletic advantage. I don't see why that can't change.

I guess it depends on whether you believe that tribulation builds character or reveals it.

If it builds character, than Cooper can learn from the experience of his mistakes in not taking training and rehab seriously or staying in shape during rehab (apparently) or playing through paid. That knowledge will make him more likely to overcome future challenges. I believe that Steve Keim feels this way--he kind of has to.

If it reveals character, then you have a guy who's had it relatively easy his entire career--two-year starter for the Tarheels, Top 10 NFL draft pick, never dealt with a serious injury--and when he faced his first setback, it revealed someone who can't pick himself up off the mat. More seriously, it revealed a guy who couldn't show himself to be better than a guy playing out of position in Earl Watford, who himself wasn't better than Ted Larsen, a former 6th round pick who didn't make it out of his first training camp.

It's too early to say for sure. I think that a better person would've responded better than Cooper has--say, Tyrann Matheiu. That bridge has passed. Can Cooper end up a useful player? No reason he can't be as good as, say, Alan Fanika. But if that's his ceiling, what a freaking waste.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

This is why you never take a OG in the Top 10...Haven't been keeping tabs but how is Chance Warmack fairing? Would he have been the better pick at #7?

So, on the one hand, you are saying "Never take a guard that high", and on the other hand you are saying "Maybe we should have taken another Guard that high". Can't have it both ways.

Last years draft was terrible. The talent in the first round was not good. All the OT taken before us have struggled as well. It just wasn't a good draft, so I have no problem with taking somebody we thought would just be steady for 10 years.

As others have said, I do have a concern with Cooper and that is he seems like too nice of a guy. I don't feel like he has much nastiness in him, and he needs to show some desire (agree the body is not looking like college). Maybe that's unfair. Having said that, he's basically a rookie this year, so let's see what happens.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

He is suffering from the usual Curse of the Cardinal. When are we going to stop spending 1st round picks on linemen. It is a total gamble when it comes to our team's luck with it. We would be far better off building out OL through FA. You usually know what you are getting that way. The old George Allen philosophy of it being better to trade your picks for proven veterans surely applies when it comes to OLmen IMO. Poll?

 

[Catfish]

I believe one of the reasons we picked him up was because he could probably play everything but Left Tackle. Basically our O-line is alright how it is, better than most (last week) as far as injuries go. Sounds like Cooper wasn't going 100% and Arians not only noticed it, but he felt he had a better option.

Let's look at it. Cooper is sitting there watching our success from the sidelines, probably feeling that he might have been able to be out there if he had pushed himself harder. The injury combined with his weight and mass had to of messed with his mentals, but Arians saw what he could do last year, and what he was doing this year, and made a coach's decision, a tough one. That's why Arians is who he is, that's why Cooper is on the pine, play scared stay scared.

Cooper in the preseason, got worked a bit but that was expected. The thrashing he took in camp from CC was necessary, Arians was looking for it. "Mentals" are everything on the O-line, that's why I am in love with Veldheer right now. You gotta not only want to get into it, you have to be confident in it, and let the man come out to deny another's will.

Let's look at it again. Cooper can respond in one of two ways. Cooper can continue to feel more confident in his recovery, and itch to get out there on the field. This may be what BA is trying to do as far as inspiration goes. Next up on the depth chart is what I would be doing if I was Cooper, first one in, last one out, because I need to get on that field and push people around.

That is a very astute assessment Dawg. Every day that our O-Line stays together, makes them a better line. If Cooper gets himself to be 'Next Man Up', then he can work to make himself the best option for wherever he is plugged into the O-line. This is actually a good thing for us as a team. Last year's sure starter has become this year's depth. That is a very good thing, and is not at all an indicator that Cooper is a bust. It is more of an indicator at how much better our O-line has gotten. Do not poo poo anyone playing on our O-line right now. Faniaka or Larsen, or any of them are each better than we had at each position last year.

 

[AZCrazy]

He is suffering from the usual Curse of the Cardinal. When are we going to stop spending 1st round picks on linemen. It is a total gamble when it comes to our team's luck with it. We would be far better off building out OL through FA. You usually know what you are getting that way. The old George Allen philosophy of it being better to trade your picks for proven veterans surely applies when it comes to OLmen IMO. Poll?

Come on man.....

 

[overseascardfan]

So, on the one hand, you are saying "Never take a guard that high", and on the other hand you are saying "Maybe we should have taken another Guard that high". Can't have it both ways.

Last years draft was terrible. The talent in the first round was not good. All the OT taken before us have struggled as well. It just wasn't a good draft, so I have no problem with taking somebody we thought would just be steady for 10 years.

As others have said, I do have a concern with Cooper and that is he seems like too nice of a guy. I don't feel like he has much nastiness in him, and he needs to show some desire (agree the body is not looking like college). Maybe that's unfair. Having said that, he's basically a rookie this year, so let's see what happens.

I would not have taken either in the Top 10 but just trying to see if Warmack is doing any better to prove OG should not go in Top 10. I would have taken Sheldon Richardson or Eric Reid.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

That wasn't available in this particular draft. Three offensive tackles were taken in the first four picks. The pass rushers were Dion Jordan (was terrible as a rookie and then has been suspended this season), Barkevious Mingo (not even seeing 50% of the snaps for Cleveland), and Ziggy Ansah (a guy who had played football for two years).

The best options in hindsight that we could have drafted were Sheldon Richardson and Star Loutouleilei, and they were both defensive tackles.

That's who I wanted them to take.

 

[kerouac9]

That's who I wanted them to take.

I remember very well. I'm still not sure how great a scheme fit he is/was for a 3-4 defense.

 

[crisper57]

I bet Cooper starts in Denver:

Kent Somers ‏@kentsomers 44s43 seconds ago
Latest inj report: 2 changes. G Fanaika downgraded from limited to DNP: OLB Okafor upgraded from limited to full.

 

[BigRedRage]

yup sounds like he likel;y starts this weekend.

 

[Russ Smith]

yup sounds like he likel;y starts this weekend.

He'll probably struggle at first but this is exactly what he needs, a chance to start where he basically has to play most of if not all of the game.

He'll take his lumps but he'll also be a better player with the experience he gains and hopefully he'll play well enough that he takes the job at LG and runs with it.

 

[kerouac9]

He'll probably struggle at first but this is exactly what he needs, a chance to start where he basically has to play most of if not all of the game.

He'll take his lumps but he'll also be a better player with the experience he gains and hopefully he'll play well enough that he takes the job at LG and runs with it.

That's speculation. There isn't a ton of evidence that he's gotten better with the experience he's gotten since at least last preseason.

 

[BigRedRage]

That's speculation. There isn't a ton of evidence that he's gotten better with the experience he's gotten since at least last preseason.

Expecting improvement from anyone with anything is speculation.

But reps make you better at anything you are trying to be good at.

 

[kerouac9]

Expecting improvement from anyone with anything is speculation.

But reps make you better at anything you are trying to be good at.

Not if you quit when the going gets tough.

Did the preseason reps for Cooper make him better? Because last I saw, he was getting yanked for Earl Watford and then Ted Larsen.

 

[Russ Smith]

That's speculation. There isn't a ton of evidence that he's gotten better with the experience he's gotten since at least last preseason.

I'm guessing missing a year with a broken leg contributed to his lack of progress.

The talent is there, if he's healthy and in shape it'll presumably come out, if he's not healthy or not in shape he'll likely continue to struggle.

 

[BW52]

This whole thread has been crazy.Somebody asked how Cooper is doing and this is stuffs thrown out ranging from lingering injuries ,poor attitude,lack of hustle,lacking toughness or never having to work hard before or not being a better person like Tyrann Mathieu.
The kid is coming back from a big injury then he gets toe injury and can`t play and now he rides the pine 3 games into basically his rookie year and people are mumbling bust or mistakle..Give the kid a real chance before playing judge and jury.

 

[BW52]

I guess it depends on whether you believe that tribulation builds character or reveals it.

If it builds character, than Cooper can learn from the experience of his mistakes in not taking training and rehab seriously or staying in shape during rehab (apparently) or playing through paid. That knowledge will make him more likely to overcome future challenges. I believe that Steve Keim feels this way--he kind of has to.

If it reveals character, then you have a guy who's had it relatively easy his entire career--two-year starter for the Tarheels, Top 10 NFL draft pick, never dealt with a serious injury--and when he faced his first setback, it revealed someone who can't pick himself up off the mat. More seriously, it revealed a guy who couldn't show himself to be better than a guy playing out of position in Earl Watford, who himself wasn't better than Ted Larsen, a former 6th round pick who didn't make it out of his first training camp.

It's too early to say for sure. I think that a better person would've responded better than Cooper has--say, Tyrann Matheiu. That bridge has passed. Can Cooper end up a useful player? No reason he can't be as good as, say, Alan Fanika. But if that's his ceiling, what a freaking waste.

Alan Faneca was ALL-PRO 6 TIMES PRO-BOWL 9 TIMES
Paul Fanaika has bounced around the nfl for a few years before settling in AZ.
Myself I sure would like to see Cooper be like Alan Faneca/

 

[Mainstreet]

2014 Pro Bowlers

Jahri Evans 4th round
Ben Grubbs 1st round (29th)
Evan Mathis 3rd round
Kyle Long 1st round (20th)
Logan Mankins 1st round (32nd)
Marshal Yanda 3rd round

The top ten in the draft is the domain of the most important positions (quarterback, left tackle, pass rusher) and game changing elite talents.

If the Cardinals had taken Dee Milliner in the first round, they would have had their pick of Kyle Long or Larry Warford in the second.

I tend to agree with this perspective. Also this thread builds a strong case for trading down.

 

[Darkside]

Not if you quit when the going gets tough.

Did the preseason reps for Cooper make him better? Because last I saw, he was getting yanked for Earl Watford and then Ted Larsen.

As unpopular as this opinion is, I'm trending toward it.

Yes, he had a bad injury but so did Dockett and he's lost, he says, 15 lbs in a little over a week because they took him off carbs so he wouldn't balloon in weight. Mathieu same thing. Cooper looks like a fat ass and that's not because of his injury.

Cooper couldn't beat out average dudes. He's not pulling well and when he does he's lost and looking for players to block, from the tape I've watched.

Maybe it's in his head, but his serious weight is also a result of bad thinking. When I was listening to NFL radio during camps and the guys had to run gassers because of a fight, they were LAUGHING at him because he was so out of shape.

I hope I'm totally wrong and I'm not totally buying in but the fact is you expect a level of professionalism from your #1 pick and Cooper hasn't shown that, injury or not.

Injuries happen. But what I expect out of a #1 is Mathieu type dedication. In fact when they interviewed Badger about why he was so tentative he said the knee felt good but that he didn't want to hurt his guys. Didn't want to give up plays. So he played off coverage. That's respect for his teammates and for his team. That's the kind of professionalism you expect from a #1.

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