What is our goal for the Suns, to win a championship or just make the playoffs?

[cardsunsfan]

People keep debating rather we need Kobe or not. I say if we want to win the championship we will. As I mentioned in another post there have been a lot of players drafted in the past several years...how many have been as good as Kobe? This league is about superstars, if you don't have them you will lose. Amare won't be enough. I think Duncan and Shaq will always be be more dominate. We will need Amare and either Kobe or TMac to when a championship, unless we get really, really lucky and draft the best player in the last 20 yrs which I think the odds are against us.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by SunCardfan
People keep debating rather we need Kobe or not. I say if we want to win the championship we will. As I mentioned in another post there have been a lot of players drafted in the past several years...how many have been as good as Kobe? This league is about superstars, if you don't have them you will lose. Amare won't be enough. I think Duncan and Shaq will always be be more dominate. We will need Amare and either Kobe or TMac to when a championship, unless we get really, really lucky and draft the best player in the last 20 yrs which I think the odds are against us.

How do you know that Shaq and Duncan will always be more domnant then Amare. He is only 21 for hell's sake. He could end up being better then both of them, or he could get injured and completely wash out. It is all just a krap shoot. What if we sign kobe and then be blows his knee and never works out for us? You never know what will really happen. I personally think that Amare could end up being the best player, in his position, in the NBA. Maybe the best player in the NBA eventually.

 

[scotsman13]

i am looking championship. and that is why i doubt that kobe is the answer for this team. look at it this way. the core of this team is right around 21 years old. kobe is 26 right now. you are looking at somewhere around 4 to 5 years for the core to reach their prime. at that point kobe will be 30 to 32 and past his prime. on top of everything else kobe has never proven that he can do it by himself even with a good balanced team around him. he has always viewed it like he must do everything himself when shaq isnt there. so how is kobe going to match up with a team where he shouldnt take every shot where the worst thing he can do is behave like he has every time shaq has been out.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I hate Kobe, but he would immediately be our best player bar none.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by scotsman13
i am looking championship. and that is why i doubt that kobe is the answer for this team. look at it this way. the core of this team is right around 21 years old. kobe is 26 right now. you are looking at somewhere around 4 to 5 years for the core to reach their prime. at that point kobe will be 30 to 32 and past his prime. on top of everything else kobe has never proven that he can do it by himself even with a good balanced team around him. he has always viewed it like he must do everything himself when shaq isnt there. so how is kobe going to match up with a team where he shouldnt take every shot where the worst thing he can do is behave like he has every time shaq has been out.

1) Have you ever seen the Lakers without Shaq? Kobe HAS to do everything himself. Shaq is THAT good.

2) 4 or 5 years? Didn't we say that 4 or 5 years ago? If you're satisfied with waiting that long, then we don't have to sign Kobe. But I'm sick of waiting that long, especially when we have a chance, however slight, that we could compete for a championship within a year or two. With Kobe Bryant, we could. Without him, we couldn't. It's that simple.

 

[devilalum]

Originally posted by Chaplin
1) Have you ever seen the Lakers without Shaq? Kobe HAS to do everything himself. Shaq is THAT good.

2) 4 or 5 years? Didn't we say that 4 or 5 years ago? If you're satisfied with waiting that long, then we don't have to sign Kobe. But I'm sick of waiting that long, especially when we have a chance, however slight, that we could compete for a championship within a year or two. With Kobe Bryant, we could. Without him, we couldn't. It's that simple.

The problem is that 4 or 5 years ago the SUns went for the quick fix with Googs, Penny and Cliffy and put themselves in cap hell.

If they had just bit the bullet and hit the lottery a couple of times we might not be having this discussion.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by devilalum
The problem is that 4 or 5 years ago the SUns went for the quick fix with Googs, Penny and Cliffy and put themselves in cap hell.

If they had just bit the bullet and hit the lottery a couple of times we might not be having this discussion.

Kobe Bryant isn't a "quick fix" and he certainly doesn't compare with Googs, Penny and Cliff.

 

[cardsunsfan]

If if we had "hit the lottery" again I ask would we able to beat the Lakers or Spurs? I think not....

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Kobe Bryant isn't a "quick fix" and he certainly doesn't compare with Googs, Penny and Cliff.

I hate the guy and I can admit he is one of the top 5 players in the NBA.

Shaq, Garnett, Duncan, Kobe, T-Mac

 

[cardsunsfan]

Yup those are the elite...with Shaq and Duncan being the top two. I think they might be able to win with just a good surrounding cast although Shaq might be seeing some wear and tear. I think the other three need another star to help them win it all (like Stoudamire) I don't think we would be able to win one without Garnett (obviously out) T-Mac or Kobe.

 

[Billythekid]

I am 100% in favour of signing Kobe.

I think people afraid that he'll slow the development of our rooks and Amare are wrong. No one on the Suns team (including Amare) will be in the league Kobe is. Sure we're waiting for Amare to become an allstar and dominant player... but kobe is all that and so much more right now, and he's SO young. Whether you like him or not, he is one of the best players in the league and is simply too good to pass up if he's avail and keen to play in Phoenix. I think Amare and Shawn would flourish in a system with Kobe.

For the Suns to go to that next level and to contend, Kobe and the team we have, could produce those results.

 

[devilalum]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Kobe Bryant isn't a "quick fix" and he certainly doesn't compare with Googs, Penny and Cliff.

Kobe is an elite player but there is no way JC signs him.

Name one example of JC bringing in a guy with Kobe's baggage.

Kobe is the only free agent worth clearing cap room and giving the max but Kobe will never be a Sun.

The Kings don't have an elite player and they have the best record.

 

[Billythekid]

But Sacramento is yet to produce in the playoffs. That stems from not having an elite player i think. C Webb when healthy could be classed almost in that catagory, but he seems to fade a little in the big games. I do think though they are stacked with very good 'basketball' players and minds. They play the game as a team but still, they're yet produce when it matters in the playoffs.

 

[devilalum]

Originally posted by Billythekid
But Sacramento is yet to produce in the playoffs. That stems from not having an elite player i think. C Webb when healthy could be classed almost in that catagory, but he seems to fade a little in the big games. I do think though they are stacked with very good 'basketball' players and minds. They play the game as a team but still, they're yet produce when it matters in the playoffs.

You're right but if the only way you judge a teams success is by the number of championships they have then then only two teams have been successful in the last 5 years.

The Kings have had a shot each of the last 5 years.

I would be a much happier fan if the Suns had a legit shot the last 5 years.

There's only one Shaq and one Duncan and they are already taken. If the SUns want to win they have to find a different formula.

 

[Billythekid]

True i'd love to be in Sac's position and they have been successful. I do see that but I also see there inability to win when it counts. You make your game in the season but you make your name in the playoffs.

 

[devilalum]

Originally posted by Billythekid
True i'd love to be in Sac's position and they have been successful. I do see that but I also see there inability to win when it counts. You make your game in the season but you make your name in the playoffs.

Is winning it all the only way to "make your name"?

 

[Billythekid]

There are obvious exceptions but people willl remember the Lakers not the sacramento kings or the New Jersey Nets.

All i'm saying is Great Elite players win championships. And it's debatable to say Sac don't have an elite player. C Webb might be injured but when's he's up and going he's in almost in that top 5 if not top 10 player catagory.

 

[George O'Brien]

It has been five years since a team has won it all without a dominant big man. Not just really, really good. Not just all star caliber - DOMINANT. Take away the Bulls where Longely was allowed to mug opponets and not get call,ed, the previous two championships were by the Olajowan Rockets.

This assumption that Amare will be more dominant that Malone is asking a lot from a guy that is only a year and half out of high school. It is even harder when you consider that Duncan had a guy named Robinson helping out.

If Kobe were a big man, this would not be a debate. Amare and a great big man - you could order your championship tickets tomorrow.

 

[Wally]

I thought of starting a new thread but I figured what the H... pick almost any one because most of them discuss Kobe anyway.

Now that Kobe went out of tonight’s' game with his surgically repaired shoulder bothering him, does that change anyone’s mind who said get Kobe at any cost?
I guess the same people who were waving flags when we got Hardaway would be waving the same flags for Kobe. I’d put myself in the category of not wanting to spend max money for another possible injured player. Not that it makes any difference, because there’s no doubt in my mind that getting him was not a possibility. D’Antoni would have one H of a job selling JC on the idea…I hope that’s not too many negatives making a positive)

Remember – Hardaway was supposed to be in good health when we got him.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Wally
I thought of starting a new thread but I figured what the H... pick almost any one because most of them discuss Kobe anyway.

Now that Kobe went out of tonight’s' game with his surgically repaired shoulder bothering him, does that change anyone’s mind who said get Kobe at any cost?
I guess the same people who were waving flags when we got Hardaway would be waving the same flags for Kobe. I’d put myself in the category of not wanting to spend max money for another possible injured player. Not that it makes any difference, because there’s no doubt in my mind that getting him was not a possibility. D’Antoni would have one H of a job selling JC on the idea…I hope that’s not too many negatives making a positive)

Remember – Hardaway was supposed to be in good health when we got him.

I was upset that they did not send Googs away in the trade instead of Garrity. (Garrity is Irish from Notre Dame you see...) and I was uncomfortable moving those picks. I felt Hardaway could have been a good acquisition, but he cost too much in trade value and money. That was before Penyy got injured.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
I was upset that they did not send Googs away in the trade instead of Garrity. (Garrity is Irish from Notre Dame you see...) and I was uncomfortable moving those picks. I felt Hardaway could have been a good acquisition, but he cost too much in trade value and money. That was before Penyy got injured.

I really think Penny was injured before we got him - O'well, it doesn't matter anymore.
By the way, I enjoy your Shamrock column.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Penny was never supposed to be as good as he was when he was younger, nobody thought that. They just thought he would be a very good veteran player for us.

 

[Billythekid]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
It has been five years since a team has won it all without a dominant big man. Not just really, really good. Not just all star caliber - DOMINANT. Take away the Bulls where Longely was allowed to mug opponets and not get call,ed,

Longley hardly mugged opponents.

As much as he sucked when he came here, Longley was very effective in Chicago and did pretty what he was supposed to do. Set screens, occasionally rebound when Rodman was off and hit the little J.

Rodman was the mugger.

I agree though. Having a Dominant big man and some decent left overs it a sure way to be in contention year in year out. Hopefully Amare will evolve into that... but Kobe would help.

 

[zett]

NOW HEAR THIS!!! Kobe will be a sun next year. It's going to happen, Because all involved want it to happen, Kobe wants a team he can build not step into an instant winner and chip in, we will clear enough cap spave to get to that point, If we can't trade the saleries away they will be left unprotected in the expansion draft, we will get it done and he will lead us to a championship as long as injuries don't rear there ugly head! & B.C will be saying we are 35 & 1 or what ever it will be when we get there!!!

 

[cly2tw]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
If Kobe were a big man, this would not be a debate. Amare and a great big man - you could order your championship tickets tomorrow.

If you could find "a great big man" satisfying your need, then you wouldn't need Amare at all. That "great big man" plus Kobe would win you championships! In addition, which potential great big man other than Amare lurks around in the landscape? Do you have an even remotely realistic perspective for the Suns to go, without trying to sign Kobe? Waiting for that illusive "great big man" to emerge while doing nothing in between? In fact, if Kobe was signed, you'd have the best chance to fetch that illusive great big man whenever he might appear on the horizon. He's got trade value.